The Instigator
Bluepaintcan123
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
The_Devils_Advocate_0
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Is [The Christian] God Omnipotent and Omniscient?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Bluepaintcan123
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/5/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 731 times Debate No: 79407
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

Bluepaintcan123

Con

I personally do not believe in god, but I find it silly that religious people (especially Christians) describe him as a perfect being. There is evidence of him changing his mind, and not doing things that could easily fix problems that he himself had caused.
For example, in Genesis he was walking through the Garden of Eden and had no idea that Adam and Eve had already sinned. (He even asked them where they were.)
" And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?" (Genesis Chpt. 3, King James Version)

I am perfectly open to the possibility of a God, but there could never be an all-knowing God such as described by most Christians. Some of them don't realize that the Christian God is not all knowing and all powerful, which is why they should take a closer look at their Bibles and have a better understanding. This is not trying to disprove God (it is an unfalsifiable hypothesis) but proving that it isn't the way that some people popularly describe him as.
The_Devils_Advocate_0

Pro

Okay, look I'm not going to argue with you as much as tell you how I heard why Christians believe in an omnipotent god.
The reason he asks where they are is because he is giving them full free will meaning he knew everything was going to happen before he began creating the world he knew of every action that would happen when he began. Well you might be wondering well if he knew it why make it like this in the first place? Why make it where Adam and Eve will sin? Why let stray so far our belief in him? Everyday everyone goes day to day without praying or giving God any thought. It's a social Facade everyone goes to like a good person but mostly just to socialize. The reason for all of this... Well we don't know. God gave us free will so we could be the makers of our own fate in the end whether there is a god or not the one who decides to believe and repent or the one who looks at all the hard facts and stands alone to accept, maybe there isn't a afterlife. After it goes away when you are about to take your last breath, you are the maker of your own fate you are your own God.
I know this may have not answered your question, I just wanted to throw some philosophical ideas with you but with the clergyman I did speak with they said he made it like this because he wanted us to have our own free will even if the outcome was already decided, but why exactly like this why these variables? Why did Jesus have to die why the wars? Who's to say that we are the only earth that was made? Maybe, he made many to watch over so many that anyone that could exist does exist. Maybe, this world was made so that you specifically would exist because in another with different variables, me and you wouldn't be here. He did all this so we would makers of our fate that's why he doesn't interfere that's why he came into the garden and just asked where they are to give them free will he could of summoned them or commanded them. Of course all of this point is moot if you don't believe in God I choose to. I can't have a that kind of mental stress on me clouding my brain. Anyway, hope this answered you I found this debate answerable with my knowledge so I thought I would try to explain.
Cheers,
Debate Round No. 1
Bluepaintcan123

Con

To start off, I must say I am glad to be able to participate in debates with others and talk about these different topics, mostly because I feel they are really worth thinking about. It is good to find people glad to discuss a topic with different opinions, so thank you.

God Allows Free Will:
As for the argument that God asked where Adam and Eve were in order to preserve their free will and allow them the chance to admit to their mistakes, it doesn't entirely make sense. Since Adam and Eve were created by God, I am certain they would know that he is all powerful and all-knowing, so they knew that eventually they would need to confess. You may say that they didn't based on the fact that they hid from him, but anyone would instinctively do that when they are in trouble, even if it was inevitable. God wouldn't be messing with free will by demonstrating his abilities, and if he was then he shouldn't have physically shown himself.
Also, if there is a person who knows how everything will occur for all eternity and has the power to change and influence it, there would be no point in calling it "free will." God in the bible has the power to influence a persons decision, and has, which demonstrates he would probably do it when he feel the need to. That destroys all chance of free will and any person who thinks they are making their own decision could have been influenced by God, or it is under the approval of him.

God Makes MIstakes:
Back to the original argument, one of the most famous bible stories is evidence that God cannot be all knowing. The answer is: Noah's Flood. God allows the Earth's population to grow and grow, but eventually the people become wicked. God sees this and grieved, even though supposedly he had known that this would occur. Instead of appearing before man and asking them to repent (which I thought was a good idea) he immediately wants to flood the Earth.
This sort of behavior (which I remember so well in myself) is like when you paint a work of art but the wet paint bleeds outside the lines. I get so angry I want to throw it out, that is, until I realize I could just paint over it. God decided to throw the human race into the "needs improvement" pile and brought out a new canvas. No matter what excuse he had, that is called making a mistake. People who make mistakes don't know it's going to happen, and that's why they start over. If I really wanted to believe he saw that coming, he wouldn't have let the wicked people be born, or tossed a bunch of Christian pamphlets at their doorstep.
To go along with the destroying evil trend, what about Sodom and Gomorrah? He firebombed the towns because there was nothing but wicked people in there. There isn't anything wrong (at least in my opinion) for a God to show their face in order to stop someone from making a bad decision. That's not messing with free will, its reasoning with someone. If God can't think of doing that right off the bat, then what good is he for?
In addition, if anyone thinks this will mess with his "plan," then why does he even need a plan? Why can't he tweak history to suit whatever plan for the human race he has. If he wanted to see how people would work with free will, why didn't he do it in an experiment format. Why did he feel the need to disadvantage people so much? Why didn't he make aliens? Why is he allowing people to question his nature when he sicked a bear on a group of boys for making fun of bald people?
Thanks for reading, by the way. Have a pleasant day.
The_Devils_Advocate_0

Pro

The_Devils_Advocate_0 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Bluepaintcan123

Con

Not sure if people are allowed to vote since The_Devils_Advocate forfeited the second round, or if I am supposed to continue my argument but I'll just say this:

I am not a professional in bible-studies nor would I say I am good at debating, but this was a nice experience for me. I don't have the opportunity to debate in real life so thanks for arguing your point.

I don't have much more arguments for my point so that it all.
The_Devils_Advocate_0

Pro

The_Devils_Advocate_0 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Bluepaintcan123 1 year ago
Bluepaintcan123
"You also say that you are no professional in Bible studies, so why do you think that it doesn't specify anyway?"
Because in the verse it doesn't say "God asked Adam because he wanted him to admit it himself, not because he isn't all-powerful." You don't need to be a bible expert to understand that it doesn't specify.
Posted by whatshouldIdo 1 year ago
whatshouldIdo
Most theologians say that God only asked because he wanted Adam to willingly tell him that he sinned.

You also say that you are no professional in Bible studies, so why do you think that it doesn't specify anyway?

God just wanted to expose what Adam had done, not just instantly put Adam to death spiritually and not tell Adam why he did so. Adam also had a conscience, He probably wanted to talk to God about what he had done, since sin was new to him.
Posted by Bluepaintcan123 1 year ago
Bluepaintcan123
@whatshouldIdo How do you know that? It doesn't specify that in the Bible.
Posted by whatshouldIdo 1 year ago
whatshouldIdo
In your first argument bluepaintcan123, you say that God didn't even know that they sinned. He did know, and was only asking because he wanted Adam to tell him on his own, not be confronted. So that isn't a really good proof.
Posted by Bluepaintcan123 2 years ago
Bluepaintcan123
TheWORDisLIFE what do you mean? The Bible is the basis for the Christian religion. They accept the Old and New Testament as their holy doctrines, which allows me to use it in my argument. The Christian God isn't just a man on earth either, haven't you heard of the Holy Trinity? There is God the father, God the son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Also, even though plenty of Christians depict god as a white man, he isn't. It is clear he is a middle eastern man and if Christianity is true then that would have to be true as well.
Posted by TheWORDisLIFE 2 years ago
TheWORDisLIFE
Neither. Christianity has nothing to do with the Bible. The Christian god is a man on this earth. The Christian god is the so called "white" man.
Posted by Bluepaintcan123 2 years ago
Bluepaintcan123
By the way, sorry about not explicitly stating the format and how the rounds are being broken down. I just recently started and I am not familiar with this.
Posted by tstor 2 years ago
tstor
Also, what is the character limit?
Posted by tstor 2 years ago
tstor
Can you break down the rounds? Is round one acceptance? Is round two initial arguments? Is round three rebuttals? Is the whole debate just arguments and rebuttals?
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
I have asked my kids questions before that I knew the answer to. Maybe this is the case in Genesis.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Sarra 2 years ago
Sarra
Bluepaintcan123The_Devils_Advocate_0Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: forfeit
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 2 years ago
Midnight1131
Bluepaintcan123The_Devils_Advocate_0Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF