The Instigator
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
84 Points

Is This life what you think it is? Hell if you see life wrong maybe the place you end up.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 15 votes the winner is...
Danielle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,322 times Debate No: 6435
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (39)
Votes (15)

 

GodSands

Pro

Thank you, read this carefully It may change you?

Hell! Through out history it has been thought of as the most foolish and regretful place to end up out of the whole existence of everything. If I was confronted with a slight possibility of a place like this where you end up after your "first death" I would consider to think about the wording of "what if and "if only". Although there is no proof in the physical world that such a please existence. It would be wise to try and understand the strange spiritual world. By finding out if God does actually exist or not by close (not skeptical) examination of God's ever lasting love. By saying
"I know what love feels like, so why do I need God's love?" I will answer....
"All love is from God even from other people as it hell there is no love, and all the love you feel now is spiritual love." As science can not excitement with love emotions. It could be possible to decrease or increase the amount of love you feel. But not get rid of it, this occurs naturally anyway, when you injure emotions. There is no such thing as a emotion with no love.

You may think hate is a emotion with no love. But you only truly really feel bad emotions in hell. As there is no God to offer good emotions. (God will be none existent to you in hell) Likewise you may blame God for curtin emotions, but God is actually the one not to blame since He is giving all the love He can to you but you simply reject it by blaming God.

Hell is a place where you know all the sins which appeared good turn out to be evil and corrupt, Jesus said "Turn from your sins now" Jesus did not say that to spoil your enjoyment but to give you ever lasting enjoyment. Love is enjoyable, enjoyment is love-able. Sin is selfish, selfish is sin. Example: Getting into a drunken state leads to bad atmosphere, making it unconformable, disrespectful and insecure. But you are having fun. No? By not getting drunk will allow you to see clearly at the foolishness which occurs. Get drunk in the Holy Spirit and you can see what is foolish. Even one sin will, even if you steal a paper clip. God sees material thing unworthy of heaven, so what you still is not the point, It is the very thought of making the thought come true. Even by taking a paper clip will make you injure endless suffering and pain in hell.

If I mention the "not so good" news, I must give you the good. Jesus Christ can save you from hell if you trust in him by giving your sins to Him. As Jesus lived a perfect life He should of lived but instead God decided to make Him Son injure instead. So you selfish people (including me) can have ever lasting life.

From DE's, people have said hell seems more real than this life and having no sense of the time. Once in hell you will see a faint bright light which contained all the love aviaible to you in heaven, But instead you having it God rejects you like you rejected Jesus Christ. Making a perfect man die for nothing. If you were the only person Jesus could die for on earth Jesus would still have died for you! Yet every time you sin it is like spitting in His face. If you sin once a day that's spitting 3550 times in Jesus' face for 10 years. If you sin 10 times a day that's 35500 times in 10 years. And that's only one person. It seems people forget Jesus was perfect. And they (sinners) are not.

As a child you believe in Santa Claus? Most children do. You enjoyed the fact that Santa was a cheerful man, who deserved to give gifts to your children. (If you are a parent you get no credit for Christmas when you have young children as Santa does all the work) You as a Child are born enjoying Christmas every year believe that Santa will come into your house (If Santa was to visit ever house in one night, He would have to spend a 1 millionth of a second at each house) Moving that fast is supernatural. Like the devil who hides, it would be impossible for the eye to see Santa as your eye can only see a maximum of a 20th of a second. So Santa is the devils way for bring in the children into the Physical world (mentioned in my other debate, "Randomness is a lack of knowledge in the Spiritual and Physical world")
As a Child the Devil acts like the child is in control by doing nothing on Christmas and the devil (now known to me as Santa) has the burden of running about after presents. When you Grow older you become the devils slave as you do not believe in Santa and therefore the devil anymore. Making your life style converted by physical not spiritual beliefs. And now as a adult with money "You can not serve two masters, money and God." is more avaible, again more involved in the physical world. So now the burden is on you to run into shops buying gifts you are now the devils slave who has seemed to have disappeared as quickly as Santa did, therefore God disappears from the picture altogether. If one tells you of God you are skepticial (examin closer)

The trap is hell and if you are still a sinner you will go there unless you trust in Jesus (spiritual) and confess you are a evil person in a physical world.

Thank You

Josh Crisp (GodStands)
Danielle

Con

|| Clarification ||

While the resolution is seemingly non-sensical (poor grammar), I'd like to establish the case which I have agreed to debate my opponent on as discussed via PM: That it is better to live righteously by God's word and assume that Hell exists, rather than assume it doesn't only to wind up there and suffer. I have agreed to argue the CON position agaist this resolution (which is similar to the idea of Pascal's Wager).

REBUTTAL:

|| The Existance of Hell ||

Pro notes that there is no physical proof that Hell exists. Because he has offered no proof or even a substantial argument defending its existence, we cannot assume that it does. At best, we can say it 'maybe' exists for the purpose of this debate.

|| God's Love ||

Pro proposes that all the love we feel - romantic or otherwise - is only possible through God's existance. Once again, he provides no proof for these claims, therefore we have no reason to accept his ideology.

|| Science & Love ||

Actually, almost every emotion we feel can be explained via brain cells (neurons and the like) and their reactions + our physical and chemical make-up in general. This is proven given the fact that science now provides medicine and medication to either tame or stimulate emotions (i.e. Xanax or other mood stabalizers). While I'm no physicist and do not wish to go in depth about our brain function, the fact remains that there is more proof that science (biology) and not God is responsible for the love (or any emotion) that we feel. Assuming you agree that God is responsible for our biological make-up, again, at best this point can only result in a stalemate, or the notion that MAYBE God is responsible for the love that we feel.

|| Jesus & Sin ||

Not only is there no proof that Jesus was a holy figure, but history now speculates the very nature of his existance. Thus, the points about "spitting in Jesus' face" are irrelevant.

|| Jesus & Santa Clause ||

My opponent has equated believing in Jesus and the Devil to believing in Santa Clause. Now because we accept that the story of Santa Clause is a fictional one we teach our children for their benefit (enjoyment), we must accept that Pro has merely made the point that the story of Jesus and the Devil is just a fable tought to people that is for their supposed benefit. While the intentions may be good, the reality is false.

|| My Case ||

Given Pro's evidence (or lack thereof), at best we can conclude that MAYBE there is a God/Jesus and MAYBE there is a Hell. This leaves us with a 50/50 chance based on the little proof or arguments Pro listed in his favor. However, considering my points that science can and has explained a lot of the questions or mysteries of the world (or at least what we have discussed in this debate: one's emotions), you should consider my reasoning that God probably does not exist, making the odds more in my favor. However, even if we establish the presence of a 50/50 scenario, I stand in affirmation of the CON position -- that it's better to not believe that Hell exists rather than live in fear of such a place.

1. Pro is assuming that there are only 2 options -- The existence of God or the non-existance of God. This is flawed, of course, given the fact that there are COUNTLESS religions in the world in addition to Christianity. Consider Islam, for instance, or even polytheistic religions such as Paganism. To assume that his religion or his idea of Hell is the only possible one that can exist is non-sensical and certainly not supported via his own arguments. Assuming that there are 1,000 versions of religion/God/Hell/the afterlife (and that's a significantly low number), the odds of Pro being correct are only 1/1,000... and that's being generous. Thus, logically we should assume that his presumption is wrong, and therefore it wouldn't be of sound reason to in fact agree with his depiction of God and Hell.

2. Suppose that the Christian God does not exist, but another god does and we deny his existence. Being blasphemous is worse than not believing, thus it would be better for us to not believe in any god rather than assert one's superiroity or imminent reign over another (when we have only faith to go by).

3. Following God's law often inhibits us from living our lives the way we'd like. For instance, it's considered sinful to engage in premarital sex. However, most of us believe that if we are safe and mature with our decisions, then our sex lives should be our business. Choosing to ignore our own human desires out of fear is no way to make the most of our lives here on earth. We must conclude that if no god exists, it's better to give our lives meaning and define our own existence, i.e. live our lives to the fullest or as best we possibly can based on our own moral beliefs. If we're wrong and God DOES in fact exist, the idea that he is all forgiving and merciful should mean that He would be understanding of our sin and our skepticism, as it is only human nature to seek truth and fulfillment.

4. If God doesn't exist, we will have wasted a lot of time (going to church, praying, etc.), money (tithings, religious ceremonies, etc.), livelihoods (consider those that choose the priesthood) and even lives (think about all of the holy wars). It almost seems as if believing in God and Hell means being willing to sacrifice our lives here on earth. The only thing is, we have proof that earth and humanity exists. We don't have PROOF (not based on faith) that God/Hell exists. Again, because of this, God - if one exists as they say he does - should understand our predicament.

5. God is supposed to only reward and save true believers. If one doesn't believe for any reason, to pretend that we believe or to force ourselves to believe would not indicate valid submission to the idea of God and Hell. Therefore what we believe is somewhat out of our hands. We don't have absolute control of our faith. Furthermore, we only believe what we do because that is what we are tought as young children. Surely God wouldn't punish those who were never given the opportunity to believe in Him based on the circumstances to which they were born.

6. A just god judges people for who they are, not for what their minds tell them is likely to be true or not. Therefore a just god would still save atheists if they were good people. Is it really likely that non-believers are sent to hell, only because their great minds didn't find any evidence of the Christian god? In that case the word "just" is not applieable to god, and such a god is not even worth worshipping. To worship such a god would be like worshiping your worst enemy because you were afraid of his revenge if you didn't submit to his power [1].

|| Conclusion ||

I'll stop here for now, curious to see as what my opponent proposes next. If he attempts any type of intelligent rebuttal, I will continue debunking the resolution at hand. Good luck.

Source:
[1] http://www.update.uu.se...
Debate Round No. 1
GodSands

Pro

What can the word of God do? You may say nothing like a animal would fly, run, climb and run away. When a creature is caught for treatment as it wriggles and tries to run from you. Like you wriggle and run from Jesus. You wriggle out of the truth into the darkness.

The word of God can help us over come problems and confusions. It shows us how things really are because it is the truth of God revealed to us. You can Trust in Scripture. You act like animals searching for a place to sleep, ending up in a cave to rest for the night. But you need to come out again to live and not sleep.

All mans attempts will fall short of God, all attempts by man fall into sin as so would you. If you believe in your attempts you will end up there with them in hell. As they are attempts. And attempts always fail. Otherwise they would be called all mans susses, nothing from man has been sussesful as there is always room for improvements.

Even religion, philosophy and good works will fall short of God. And hell is where you fall and do not reach God. You fall into sin.

Jesus has died for you to get to God as Jesus was perfect like God. Jesus like God does not die. But Jesus did and you can live.

Jesus said to Nicodemus: " I assure you, unless you are born again, you can never see the Kingdom of God."
"What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus. "How can an old man go back into his mothers womb and be born again?"

Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of the water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven. Everyone who believes in me will have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:3-6,15-16.

Why would Jesus lie like that if he was the Son of God? ( the Son) Think of it like this as a apple: God the Father-core, God the Son (Jesus) - flesh and God the Holy Spirit - The skin.

Jesus said, "I am the bread of life. No one who comes to me will ever be hungry again. Those who believe in me will never thirst." John 6: 35. You thirst for the truth but you will never find it. Your hunger for Jesus, but you do not believe in him.

Jesus said, "All right, stone her. But let those who have never sinned throw the first stones!" God has every right to send you to hell, as you have sinned. When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to her, "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one them condemn you?"

"No, Lord," she said.

And Jesus said "Neither do I. Go and sin no more." John 8:4-5,7,9-11. - This applies to all. I know you are into men and woman. Homo means evil, you have evil sex. Every time you have sex with women. Goes for all. Homo also means same.

Jesus said to his people who believed in him, "You are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings. And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." (Like I have claimed many times!) Do you think I'm lying too?

Am I not like you, how did I decide that I will change. From a illness or am I delusional? Is it no more like I am telling the truth? Who loses out more, if I am wrong, why would I claim to be right. If I am right why am I right. If you are right who loses out more? If I am wrong and think I am right would not the truth be that I am wrong? And Jesus said, "I am the truth, the way and the light. No one comes to the father but by me" John 14:6.

Who are you to say I am wrong? You are searching and I have been found. It will take more belief in not to be a God as you have not found a answer and I have. And that is God. Where were you when God made the earth? Who are you to God if you are Not found by him? Therefore who is God to you? Is God not searching for you like you are for him? I have never found God but God found me. Look all you want because the structure of the Universe is God. And everything has a Structure as all was made by God. And all made by humans have a structure. Who are you to say God does not exist? Who are you to say I am wrong? Who are you to say you are right? You can not be right as you do not know your origins. God is my origin. God has revealed the truth. (Don't be stupid and say the Big Bang as were did that come from?)

Science and Love: Yes I to think can make you differ in your love towards people, but they can neither take it all away or add it all. As God's love is unlimited. God is love and wisdom filled with anger and forgiveness and justice, etc. That's dropped then.

My suffering will come to an end. Joy and glory will follow for eternity. (You can not have no good or evil.) You end either in hell or heaven if that is true. Is this not want you want? If it is the backwards Jesus is leading us into hell and earth would have no life. As hell does Not. This does not make sense. Are you asleep? Why not wake up!!

By thinking sins are good, destroys Jesus and makes him evil. When the devil is the one who will be destroyed. The devil is not good and neither are your sins.

You are therefore a slave to sin, as a salve is not part of the family. Become a child of God as a child will always be part of the family.

Jesus said:
"My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch the away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. So no one can take them away from me. The Father and I are one." - John 10:27-30.
If no one can snatch me away am I not ill or delusional? Someone who is delusional can be cured, someone who is ill can get well. The non Christian are the ones who get well and get cured. And say I was, you would not know, as I will die like I am. The God delusion by Richard Dawkins makes no sense. There is no God delusion. You are the one who is delusional.

By saying you can become in delusional by falling away from Christ again makes no sense, as who am I falling away from? What made me ill and what caused me to become delusional? As a delusion is from out of the body, which enter into your body falsely. What do I see false about Jesus? With all his teaching. Are his teachings false? If not then why would Jesus lie about God? Who's delusional? I know who. I should write a book on the Devil delusion. I believe in the Devil. Why has Richard Dawkins not written a book on that. Well because It would prove God maybe. You clearly do not understand.

Jesus said: "I am the bread of life.
I am the light of the world.
I am the gate.
I am the good Shepard.
I am the resurrection and the life.
I am the true vine. (Evolution is not)
I am the way, the truth, and the life
No one can come to the Father except through me." - John6:35;8:12;10:9;10:11;11:25;15:1;14:6.

Who are you to say Jesus did not exist. How much do you know about life? You going to say Henry the 8th does not exist? I have been to his castle but did not see him. Nothing of the man. But he existed like Jesus did.

"This leaves us with a 50/50 chance based on the little proof or arguments Pro listed in his favor." I listed nothing of my favor I God didn't find me I would still be like you. The proof is in the favor. You want to do yourself a favor? And admit your self wrong? (God can only find you when you repent. As if you repent and nothing changes, that would make no sense.)

And Join the life and wisdom.

Thank you again. (289 letters remaining) "Just for the laughs."
Danielle

Con

Extend all of my arguments.

Pro has chosen not to debate the actual points, but rather cites blind faith as the basis for his claims. He is calling for voters to make their decision based upon his insistence of what is "right" instead of via the actual process and skill that actual debate entails. For this reason, you must consider me victorious as far as this debate is concerned. Being as though I'm an atheist (and Pro has not made one original or compelling argument), I'm not scared about winning elsewhere (i.e. in the eyes of god :P ). We'll see where this goes form here. For now, I'm confident just summing everything up in my closing argument.
Debate Round No. 2
GodSands

Pro

I' m debating to prove hell so this life is not worth doing what you want. (Devils wants) And I did, If I do not want to refer to any of your points I do not have to. And by not refering to your points, does that mean you are right? Yet you want me to. You make no sense again. There is no blind faith as Jesus is not blind. But you are. The Devil has blinded you. Why does Richard Dawkins written a book on the "Devil Delutsion"? The reason is because it would prove God therefore hell exists.

As the Devil hides out of sight, when really you think God does. God does not hide. If God did then the devil would snatch us away. As we remmind the Devil of God the Devil will bring us to hell and kill us over and over for ever. Whats stopping That. God must exist. God does exist. That is the truth. Heaven exists therefore as a closing comment hell exists, proving my point to begin with.

Night xx

Get saved, Repent or perish.
Danielle

Con

I'll take my chances.

Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
39 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Too right, I thank you. Some one has shown sense. Thank you. I thirst for back up.
Posted by NOK_Domination 8 years ago
NOK_Domination
it is better to live righteously by God's word and assume that Hell exists, rather than assume it doesn't only to wind up there and suffer

If that's the resolution then there's no way con can defend it. Living a "boring" life is way better than living in the worst place imaginable for eternity.
Posted by jason_hendirx 8 years ago
jason_hendirx
>I will end here. Anything you say will change nothing. Who are you to change anything?

You're dying? Can I keep your head?
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
All points to Con.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
I will end here. Anything you say will change nothing. Who are you to change anything?
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
You don't understand about God. You don't understand about atheist's claims. You don't understand what you're talking about.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
I say this now DCB you neither understand yourself. You claim to be a Christian as you believe. Even the devil and the atheists know of God. But you do not. Is God not insulted that his creation who that only believe in him? God is the one to believe in us.
Posted by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
DiablosChaosBroker
That's why you need better arguments for proof than the Pascal's Wager.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
Is that not the truth?
Posted by Guderian 8 years ago
Guderian
Pascal's Wager and threatening Hell is a very poor way to try converting people to Christainity.
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