The Instigator
ChocoThundaa
Pro (for)
The Contender
KGlife
Con (against)

Is Trump good for the US

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Debate Round Forfeited
ChocoThundaa has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 594 times Debate No: 106578
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (27)
Votes (0)

 

ChocoThundaa

Pro

My stance is that Trump has done a lot of good while in office, even though the media portrays him as a villainous character that doesn't care about anyone else but himself.
The country has seen steady growth in many areas while Trump has been in office with no to little coverage on the media. One such example is the GDP growth. It has sky-rocketed in the United States since Trump has been elected.
KGlife

Con

Hi there. I'll be debating against the idea that Trump has been 'Good' for America. I'm not quite sure if my opponent is going to debate me for a full five rounds, but debate I will anyway. Trump has been a disastrous president, and in my opinion, a candidate for one of the worst of all time. His rise to power has been literally and figuratively funded by concentrated American ignorance and stupidity.

Instead of examining the problems with America's economic or governmental system, people like Trump will try to make a very complex situation seem nice and simple for his ignorant supporters.

There's no inherent problem with capitalism, it's just the illegal immigrants. We have to build a wall to keep them out!

We don't have to talk about the social problems going on in America, it's the fault of the Muslims!

Global warming doesn't exist, because it's cold today.

These are paraphrases of what Trump has campaigned on. He doesn't have a care for what's true, he just wants to find a group his supporters can blame everything on. This strategy has been used throughout history. No careful eye for facts is required when the truth is irrelevant. This has unfortunately become the case in America.

And, unfortunately, my opponent appears to have fallen prey to this display of ignorance, and is now glorifying it, himself. (do correct me if you are not a he)

So, to further discredit my opponent, I will rebuff the very small argument he has made, and display just how ignorant people can be of what is really happening.

"One such example is the GDP growth. It has sky-rocketed in the United States since Trump has been elected."

So, unfortunately, (to put it politely) this is a load of crap. The sorts of places that say things like this, like to cut off any sense of logic for why the GDP may have improved.

The only thing Trump has passed in his term that might affect the economy, is his recent tax reform. And, spoiler alert, this tax reform is essentially a reverse-Robinhood. The top 1 percent will get richer and everyone else will suffer for it. I would love to go into greater depth, but I have a strong suspicion my opponent will forfeit the next round, so I won't bother unless he continues the debate.

But anyways, the GDP growth has been going up long before the tax reform, so what might have influenced this? Well, certainly nothing Trump has done. Look, pro, just because the economy is improving doesn't mean the president has had something to do with it. A lot of non-policy factors go into the quality of an economy. If you're so sure that Trump has been the cause of this GDP growth, then please provide some evidence that Trump has done so. As far as I can see, Trump has done practically nothing that would help the economy.

A Washington Post article explains this very effectively and goes as far as to compare to Obama, so please give it a read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

To summarize a few of the article's points, the economic quality began to trend upward near the end of Obama's presidency. It has continued to increase at a similar rate, but Trump is taking credit for it.

Even if you disregard this, however, Trump hasn't really changed any significant economic policy since he was elected, so how is the GDP growth his doing? Trump has barged into office without any political understanding and is brainwashing his supports to believe that anything positive that happens in America is his doing. The conclusion here, is that Trump has had absolutely nothing to do with the economic improvement. He is just in the right place at the right time.

"The country has seen steady growth in many areas while Trump has been in office with no to little coverage on the media."

Little to no coverage? Hm. Okay. Fact check time.

https://www.cnbc.com...

http://money.cnn.com...

https://www.cnbc.com...

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

http://fortune.com...

http://thehill.com...

https://www.theepochtimes.com...

https://www.postandcourier.com...

Alright, you get the point. A quick Google search disproves everything my opponent just said. Those links are just a few examples of all of the media outlets that have reported on the economy improvement. But, hey, Trump says they're not, so I guess he must be right. Funny, that. Next rebuttal.

"My stance is that Trump has done a lot of good while in office, even though the media portrays him as a villainous character that doesn't care about anyone else but himself."

Alright. Since my opponent has provided such a minuscule amount of information, let's have some fun here. Because, who would dare compare Trump to a villain?

It's not like he's bragged about groping women or threatened to put his political rival in jail or is denying a universally accepted scientific fact (global warming) and is apparently quite fine with the world burning. It's not like he ever so gingerly ate a beautiful piece of chocolate cake while discussing the bombing of the Middle East.

It's not like he wants to ban a religion of people from the United States or supports racial profiling. It's not like he called said political rival 'Crooked' despite taking advantage of workers for decades, by making them work, not paying them, getting taken to court, out-lawyering them and then forcing them to accept a lower pay.

And of course, it's not like there's a certain dictator in a certain Eurasian country that may be controlling everything Trump is doing, and in turn, is manipulating the US for his own country's benefit. It's not like Trump is an evil businessman coming to power b-movie character come to life. Who would ever compare Trump to a villain? Sad.

So, for all of these reasons, Trump has been a terrible president and terrible for America. His entire presidency has been a disaster, and I'm counting down the days until its conclusion.
Debate Round No. 1
ChocoThundaa

Pro

I think it is an obvious statement to say Donald Trump has done more benign things in the few months he has been in office. It's even more obvious to state that he has done more in such little time then Obama did in all of his 8 years. Yes, I shall acknowledge that he did do things, but were they good things? No, the most impactful thing he did while in office was have lunch with my favourite nigger rapper, Kendrick Lamar. Meanwhile our Lord and saviour Donald Trump has already cut down on illegal immigration and economic woes. Maybe Barack Obama was too busy working on his ball skills instead of unfucking his country's economy
KGlife

Con

Alright, thank you for at least responding, Choco. I didn't expect that. I am disappointed, however, that you don't seem too interested in having a legitimate debate. If all you're going to do is use angry buzzwords and fail to cite facts or statistics, you're argument is invalid no matter what you're saying. In short, I would really appreciate you sticking to more civil rhetoric. But, don't let me stop you.

Unfortunately, because my opponent has no real argument, he is resorting to said buzzwords as well as factually incorrect statements. But, meh, I don't have anything better to do. I suppose I'll refute them for the sake of exposing the vast amount of ignorance it takes to buy Trump's claims.

"It's even more obvious to state that he has done more in such little time then Obama did in all of his 8 years. "

There exists this urban legend that ignorant folk continuously bring up, that I fail to comprehend. This idea that somehow, Obama just sat in his office all day doing nothing. I do not know where this idea came from, but it is quite easily debunkable. Here are some major things Obama did during his two terms.

1. Obamacare. Before the arrival of Obamacare, millions and millions of Americans could not pay for their healthcare. Because the US is stuck with this insane system of private healthcare, which exists only as a desperate attempt to glorify capitalism, lower taxes and to attract libertarians to the Republican Party. But with the introduction of Obamacare, there was significant improvement in this area.

Instead of suffering with illness due to poverty, less fortunate Americans were able to have some form of healthcare. You cannot deny that this helped millions of people. I have my own criticisms of Obamacare, particularly in how inefficient it is, but it was certainly an improvement over a private system. And now, Trump is trying to repeal it. Instead of supporting the less wealthy working class southerner, (who Obamacare benefits) like he promised, he proceeds rid of it, because it's a political move. It's something he can say he did. I got rid of Obamacare. I did something. This can go into my legacy. Trump doesn't care for the implications of his political actions. He just has to look good in doing it. Because he is aware of the political mindset of his supporters, he can say what they want to hear without encouraging any additional thinking to be done on the subject. This is why Trump is such a flawed president.

2. Tax cuts. Yeah, not much to say here. I don't necessarily agree with it, but he did it, and I'm sure my opponent would be in support of lower taxes.

3. Killing of Osama bin Laden. I can tell you, if Trump had done this, no one would ever hear the end of it. This would be engraved into Trump's legacy, so people could make him seem a successful president. However, this is indisputably, a significant thing Obama did during his terms.

4. Attempted reduction of carbon emissions. (2014.)

5. Paris Climate Agreement. Instead of jovially watching the world gradually become warmer and warmer with climate change, Obama attempted to do something about it.

6. Created over 22 million jobs; especially helpful after the recession.

7. Fixed up outdated sentences of prison sentences for the use of drugs

8. Dropped veteran homeless rate by 50%

9. Hate Crimes Prevention Act

10. Expanded embryonic stem cell research leading to groundbreaking work in areas including spinal injury treatment and cancer

Whether or not my opponent agrees with these actions, they are actions. Obama did not just sit idly by for the entire length of his administration. He accomplished things my opponent doesn't care to mention. I have seen a lot of people make this baseless claim, so I hope this is enough evidence to prevent it. I'll give you a chance, however. Please prove to me that Trump has done more than Obama. I would love to see your side on this debate, because I am frankly unsure of where these claims come from.

If there is any merit to what my opponent is saying, I will agree that Obama's proposals were often shot down by the Republican HOR or senate, which is why he had trouble accomplishing things, in his first term at least. He was able personally sign more orders in his second term.

"Yes, I shall acknowledge that he did do things, but were they good things? No, the most impactful thing he did while in office was have lunch with my favourite nigger rapper, Kendrick Lamar. "

How thoughtful. I'm not gonna bother to rebuff this nonsense.

"Meanwhile our Lord and saviour Donald Trump has already cut down on illegal immigration and economic woes. "

Alright, look here. I understand you're not taking this debate seriously, but at the very least, you can talk about what Trump has done about these issues. Illegal immigration. Okay, what has he done about it? I'll tell you: He has proceeded to fail to build a wall. Shockingly, maybe the public doesn't think it's such a great idea to spend billions of tax dollars to stop 100 Mexicans from getting over the border.

Additionally, my opponent is quite conveniently ignoring the fact, that more illegal Mexican immigrants are leaving the country, than those who enter. (1) Regardless, no, Trump has done nothing about illegal immigration. Additionally, as I said before, Trump has passed next to no policies that will have a significant effect on the American economy. My opponent keeps saying this, but as for everything else, he has no stats to back it up. Sad.

"Maybe Barack Obama was too busy working on his ball skills instead of unfucking his country's economy"

Wha- are you serious? You're going after Obama for playing basketball too much? Alright, I didn't think this necessary to bring up, but my opponent has made it so!

A fun website called: trumpgolfcount.com has, at great expense, provided all of the stats on Trump's frequent visits to the golf course. Trump visits the golf course once every 4.2 days. He works a shorter work week than the average working class individual. Trump is on pace to visit the golf course 702 times in 8 years. This is more than twice as much as Obama.

Well, maybe Trump should send less time at the golf course and more time being a president.

My main point here, is that Trump is incompetent.

He acts like a child: He tweets videos of political opponents getting hit with golf balls and refers to other countries as 'Shitholes.'

His policies don't make sense:

He wants spend billions of tax dollars to build a wall, that likely will fail to do its useless job.

He's a liar:

He denies saying things that are on tape.

He's a misogynist:

He brags about groping women.

He's a racist:

Read 'Shithole' comment, racial profiling etc.

In short, he's stupid. He doesn't understand how the political system works. Hell, he doesn't understand how anything works. He expected to stride into the White House and witness everyone heeding every nonsensical word that comes out of his mouth. He didn't think insulting Republican senators would have any negative implications. He has an enormous ego, that he will defend to the death. He even shakes hands aggressively. He is an incompetent, unintelligent fool.

Instead of attempting to get something positive done, he wants to victimize minorities and create a false legacy. I hope people like my opponent will grow to realize how Trump used them, and how illegitimate a political figure he truly is.

Sources:

http://www.pewresearch.org... (1)

https://www.thebalance.com...

https://www.good.is...
Debate Round No. 2
ChocoThundaa

Pro

bro ur sources are legit vlogs. get an education
KGlife

Con

"bro ur sources are legit vlogs. get an education"

You have my congratulations sir. You are apparently quite comfortable with having no information on your side, and blindly eating up anything Trump gives you. You didn't even look up any of my sources, did you?

So, if we go through the very challenging process of... looking things up, we can see that PEW Research is a think tank, TheBalance is an economic site with economic experts, Good is a magazine and the Washington Post is a newspaper. Is it really this challenging to look something up? Why do you participate in debates when you have nothing insightful or intelligent to add?

I guess my opponent has gone online, seen all the people who bash the 'Liberal media,' got really angry about it and thought he would be able to plow his way through interactions. When people like my opponent run into facts however, they end up spouting buzzwords and showing just how oblivious they are, to what is actually going on. Until my opponent decides to take this debate seriously, I'm done with providing any long responses.

Hopefully, my opponent can do a few weeks of actual research to educate himself on reality. Then, we can have a real debate. For now, however, I'm finished with going on for this long. I'll keep posting a sentence or two for the sake of a victory, but my opponent isn't worth an hour of refutation.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 6 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
I was expecting a stalemate as opinions aren't all that debatable. The only opinion I can see being reasonable is the Haiti comments. What Trump said is disrespectful, though I don't believe it's enough to call him racist. Trump is against the disease people from Haiti and Africa would bring as he so gracefully said in the same meeting they "all have AIDS". He's not saying the people are inferior, but that they would bring many diseases he doesn't want in America. As for the travel ban, if it was truly targeting Muslims wouldn't Trump have banned the most Muslim dominated country, Indonesia? It is my impression that Trump was specifically targeting countries with ISIS members rather than Muslims.
Posted by KGlife 6 months ago
KGlife
We're in a stalemate in attempting to interpret Trump's words and policies. It seems you're making the argument that I'm handpicking worse-case scenarios in interpreting Trump's speech. And thus comes the main defense for Trump's personality: He didn't mean it what way.

I can't see how any logical person can interpret Trump's actions in the way you do, but I suppose I cannot technically disprove you, without saying the word 'Probably,' a lot.

For example, I think his Haiti comment was disrespectful to people who are suffering under a poor economy and crappy government through no fault of their own. To elaborate a bit, not only did he call it a shithole, but I believe he went on to say something like 'We don't want anyone from that country.' I suppose in my opinion, open bigotry can potentially be just as damaging as a bad policy.

For the record, I was not saying that America was being taken over by fascists. I was saying that Trump says a lot of things that border fascist rhetoric. If you look into the history of various uprising fascist legislation, you can see how a lot of it stems from the scapegoating of minorities. To me, it's fairly obvious that when Trump wants to build a wall, he's really saying we have to stop Hispanics.

When he criticizes the Take a Knee campaign, he is catering to racist supporters. When he states that KKK members can be real fine people, he is appealing to white supremacists.

The only thing you mentioned that I can really debate is your point about the Travel Ban. At what point do you declare that it is a Muslim Ban? If Trump were to make a travel ban for every Muslim country but one, would you make the same claim, since it's not all Muslim countries?

The problem is, no statistics support the idea of a travel ban, so to me, it is very openly bigoted.

Feel free to keep responding, but I doubt we're gonna get anywhere.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 6 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
I really am apathetic on this topic. This is why this comment is delayed, I was thinking on whether there was any point in discussing further. I don't care for Trump's personality, or how you view him.
Debating is a hobby for me, and that's probably the only reason I'm making another comment(s).

You're making too many assumptions about my stance on Trump. Firstly, I believe that words alone are only as offensive as you are insecure. The majority of where the belief that Trump is racist stems from is what he's said, though words can be interpreted any which way for example words in the bible. To clarify, when trump called Africa a shithole, he was likely referring to the high poverty, low lifespan, and high starvation rates of that country. Not about the people themselves. When compared to countries like North America, Africa is factually a shithole. That's just my interpretation of his words. Words alone are a very weak reason to believe Trump is racist. Remember that people believed Trump is racist before he became president and did anything. Trump did attempt to ban many countries from the middle east, but there are many Muslim dominated countries that he did not ban. It is flawed reasoning to say he's against Muslims if he didn't attempt to ban every Muslim country.
Me saying herp derp at the end of the sentence obviously does not make my point any more credible, but it doesn't make my point any less credible either. I just added that there for clarification basically. When you said that Trump being racist will start a fascist movement I could only interpret it as you believed fascists would somehow take over the country. I don't know what else you would be afraid of a fascist movement doing. I don't understand how Trump is scapegoating anyone. Trump doesn't cause the behemoth of criminal activity going on in America. He blames a lot of it on illegal immigrants, not exactly the same as a minority. Illegal immigrants take up a good chunk of our populatio
Posted by KGlife 6 months ago
KGlife
ore centrist.
Posted by KGlife 6 months ago
KGlife
You appear to be pretending I have provided no evidence to prove my point.

"Trump is racist and rallying all the racists to overturn the government and it's millions strong military to start a fascist government because America completely works that way herp derp."

Right... uh, just because you put herp derp after your remark doesn't validate your point. Here's an idea: Maybe I think Trump is bigoted because he says bigoted BS all the time. And yes, shockingly, fascism begins when politicians scapegoat minorities. But, I guess if herpy derping is civil and rational now, I guess it's my turn to take a crack at it.

"Well you know, Trump has bragged about groping women and cheating on his pregnant wife, and calls countries shitholes sometimes and supports racial profiling and doesn't like Muslims all that much and has stated that some white supremacists are 'Real fine people' and that NFL players who kneel during the national anthem are 'Sons of bitches' and Hispanics are a problem too, but you know... what's wrong with that? It's not in a policy, so how could it affect the country? He's not THAAAT bad. You lefties call everything racist! Herp derp."

"You don't like Trump therefore you refuse to believe anything he does is positive simply because you want to."

Alright, what has Trump done that is positive? Am I meant to support a travel ban? Am I meant to support a wall? Am I meant to support a tax plan based on an economic theory that has been proven not to work? Am I supposed to shrug at every questionable thing he says?

Help me out here. I don't dislike Trump because I feel like disliking him. I dislike Trump because of the things he does, as I would with anyone. I feel like, maybe, just maybe, you are so caught up in being a centrist that you are overly willing to dismiss the things that Trump says and does. Give me a reason to like Trump, and I'll take you more seriously.

I will not support something Trump does purely in an attempt to be m
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 6 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
My underlying point is those who believe in something strongly do so simply because they want to believe it. Even if that belief is correct, strongly believing in something simply because you want to is the definition of ignorance. You are believing that everything Trump does must be negative in some way simply because you dislike him. "Trump is racist and rallying all the racists to overturn the government and it's millions strong military to start a fascist government because America completely works that way herp derp." I don't support Trump, neither am I against him. My impression is that those strongly against Trump are much too biased. Not every breath the man takes is a social holocaust. You don't like Trump therefore you refuse to believe anything he does is positive simply because you want to. That is extremely ignorant. In my experience of reading hundreds of discussions/debates the number of people I've ever seen completely change their beliefs is less than ten. It is extremely unlikely that you will change your belief no matter what I say. I doubt there is any point in me continuing the discussion in light of this fact.
Posted by KGlife 6 months ago
KGlife
Because making it out as if certain races and religions are evil is a terrible thing. As I said, people like you like to pretend that blatant bigotry isn't all that big a deal. Discrimination is enough evidence in itself.

Also, I'm pretty sure a tax plan affects the whole country. I don't see what you think I'm evading. If anything, you've been evading the discrimination point.

Trump also attempted to repeal ObamaCare, which could potentially leave millions of Americans without access to healthcare. Yeah, sure, it didn't pass, but Trump was quite fine with it.

Trump has denied climate change and dropped out of the Paris Agreement.

Regardless of how effective the travel ban was, it was still obviously discriminatory. There were no stats to back up Trump's actions there. There were no terrorist attacks from the country's on his list for something like 7 years, so it was obvious Islamophobia pandering.

Anyways, I mentioned most of these in the debate, so I still don't see your point here. The things I brought up all impact America negatively.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 6 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
Yes I did read your debate and the only instance of Trumps actions affecting the entire country that you mentioned was the travel ban and the Tax he passed as well as the wall. You have evaded providing eveidence of Trump negatively affecting the entire country. It should be easy for you to provide evidence of how Trump hurt our entire country shouldn't it?
Posted by KGlife 6 months ago
KGlife
If any other candidate made even a suggestion of racism, sexism etc, they would have been disqualified from the race. It's a big deal. People like you who try to make this seem like a small thing don't really understand how fascist movements start. Also, I've provided no evidence of this? Have you read any of the debate? Do you honestly believe a president spewing discriminatory BS has no negative effects on a country? Listen to yourself.
Posted by DawnBringerRiven 6 months ago
DawnBringerRiven
I'm not with or against this topic. I think though that both of you are making bare assertions. Every person I see who is against Trump always says he's a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, phobicphobic individual without giving any evidence as to how any of these traits have hurt our country as a whole. People against Trump believe there's mountains of evidence showing Trump has hurt USA, but in reality there doesn't seem to be any. The travel ban and a wall don't hurt USA. Travel ban only affects those that are out of country, not American citizens. That goes with the wall as well. "It hurts tax payers." The US government has literally dozens of trillions of dollars. The wall is pocket change. I implore you KGlife to provide real evidence of Trump directly hurting the country as a whole.
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