The Instigator
Hunts
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
gomergcc
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points

Is Universal health care fair for everyone?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
gomergcc
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 667 times Debate No: 66544
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

Hunts

Con

I will allow the pro stance to go first.
gomergcc

Pro

I am just going to start with a opening statement that gives a overview since otherwise I will have one more round than my opponent. I will be debating for the single payer model.



Terms:


Universal health care- An organized healthcare system that provides healthcare benefits to all persons in a specified region.


Single-payer health care/ system/ model- the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs



Universal health care is fair for everyone, with the single payer model. Even if someone had perfect heath there whole life and never used the health benefit they receive benefits in other ways. No more having to pay medical costs in a fender bender. There job no longer as to pay medical costs, even for worker comp. It is easier to start a business because of you no longer needing to provide workers comp and medical liability. Your homeowners, and automotive, insurance is lower because there is no med to pay any medical liability.



It is unlikely that anyone would ever be this healthy. Most people would see the benefit as it impacts there health. Gone are they days when parents go hungry because of what a chiles prescription costs. Gone to are the needless deaths because of a persons inability to pay for a need treatment. No more worries about how you are going to live comfortably and pay your unknown health cost when you retire.

Debate Round No. 1
Hunts

Con

In the single payer system however the government. like you said pays for all medical costs. However the government is run on taxes, just like in a universal health care system, therefore you are basically arguing for Universal health care.

In this system, taxpayers are forced to pay for procedures that they may disagree of. For example, abortion, many people are against abortion however we are then forced to pay for it. Also is it fair that I have to pay for someone's health issues? I am a Canadian and the wait times here are absolutely crazy. My brother almost had lost his finger to a hockey skate. However he was forced to wait for 6 hours before they helped him.

Also for the amount that I have used the hospital, I would much rather pay for one treatment rather than 20% of my paycheck to something that I rarely use. So because of this only private is fair for everyone.
gomergcc

Pro

In the single payer system however the government. like you said pays for all medical costs. However the government is run on taxes, just like in a universal health care system, therefore you are basically arguing for Universal health care.”

I was quantifying that my argument would be about this type of universal health care and not any of the other types. Not all models of Universal Health Care use tax payer money, or have goverment involement.




In this system, taxpayers are forced to pay for procedures that they may disagree of. For example, abortion, many people are against abortion however we are then forced to pay for it.”



Only if that procedure is medically necessary. Abortions when the mother would lose her life is medically necessary; however, because she does not want the child is not and would not be covered. Also Universal Heath Care gives people a forum to discuss issues that this while private insurance does not. If you disagree with the coverage offered by Universal Health Care you can get the law changed. If you disagree with with out Universal Health Care you are left paying out of pocket to companies offering the procedure you disagree with. Then when you run out of money the tax payers that agree with the procedures are left paying for your medical costs. In addition because health care in not affordable to everyone taxpayers with out any form of Universal Health Care were paying for the procedures they disagreed with any way. There is no medical facility in 1st world countries the 100% goes for everyone’s political views. This is simply not a possible task with hoe many different views there are.




Also is it fair that I have to pay for someone's health issues?”

No matter what you are going to pay for it. Even if you take away all forms of health care help for everyone. Make every one pay for it them self and if they cant then, “Oh well sucks to be you.” You will still pay for someone else health care. You will pay for it in your homeowners insurance, automotive insurance, business liability insurance, death insurance, and less each week in your pay check to cover worker liability issues. They all take in other peoples health issues in to account for premiums and with employers how much they can afford to pay workers. This is not really about if its right to pay for someone's health care but how the money your already paying could be used better.

I am a Canadian and the wait times here are absolutely crazy. My brother almost had lost his finger to a hockey skate. However he was forced to wait for 6 hours before they helped him.”



Your brother was clearly stable and not in a life threatening situation, since the wait did not cause him to lose his finger or die. The wait time is long in the ER because you should not have even been at an E.R. You should have been at an Urgent Care. Wait times will ways be high for patients that come in to an E.R with a stable and none life threatening situation. The E.R. Was not build or designed to handle someone just needing stitches. Your brother was a low priority and has to wait in a line with people with colds, and headaches. The E.R. has to save beds for people with actual emergencies. While you complain your being part of the problem.





Also for the amount that I have used the hospital, I would much rather pay for one treatment rather than 20% of my paycheck to something that I rarely use. So because of this only private is fair for everyone.”





You are so full of it! I looked up the tax rate for Ontario. The official government web site on the tax rate states, “The premium ranges from $0 if your taxable income is $20,000 or less, to $900 if your taxable income is more than $200,600.” for 2014. $900 for all of there health cost for the whole year is unfair? The top income tax rate is caps out at 13.6%. Were did you come up with 20%. It costs $527.71, US converted to Canadian, just for an x-ray out of pocket in a E.R., in the US. Just a x-ray would be 58% of the top tax rate for health care. There is no way out of pocket would cost less in the long run.

I bought health insurance today, from the US government web site. It is $198 a month and I have a $2750 deductible. That means my health cost will be $5,126 dollars before the insurance pays anything. According to the Bank of Canada I get $1.15 for every dollar in Canada for every US dollar. So my insurance cost are $5,880.55 converted to Canadian dollars. This is over 6 times as much as people in Ontario pay.




http://www.fin.gov.on.ca...

https://www.ontario.ca... (file you have to download to see tax rates.)




Collusion:

People in Ontario with there single payer system pay $784.52, in US dollars, for all there health care needs. This is why the single payer system is more fair. Even when your paying for someone's health care you still paying less than buying your own medical insurance.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...ml

Debate Round No. 2
Hunts

Con

Hunts forfeited this round.
gomergcc

Pro

Hunts forfeited this round and I want to see if they will be back for the next round.
Debate Round No. 3
Hunts

Con

Hunts forfeited this round.
gomergcc

Pro

Hunts forfeited after being caught in a lie.
Debate Round No. 4
Hunts

Con

Hunts forfeited this round.
gomergcc

Pro

If you would like to debate me on this topic send me a challange and have a nice day.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by 2PartyFarce 2 years ago
2PartyFarce
You could try to argue that universal healthcare in unfair to the wealthy class, in that they would not receive such a high level of very expensive healthcare that is readily available in the US, but not so much in many of the other 100 or so developed countries that all have universal healthcare. However, the financial interests of the wealthy are better off in a country with some sort of universal healthcare, including the ACA.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
HuntsgomergccTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeit; Arguments because CON dropped all of PRO's points; Sources because PRO provided some.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
HuntsgomergccTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Mr.Chorlton 2 years ago
Mr.Chorlton
HuntsgomergccTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: All points go to pro. Pro had an answer for all the points made by con and con forfeited which cost both conduct points and the opportunity to get the upper hand in the argument. Pro was also the only one to use sources.