The Instigator
scartissue
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Yraelz
Con (against)
Winning
30 Points

Is Yraelz gay

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,464 times Debate No: 3303
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (12)

 

scartissue

Pro

Yraelz is gay because I said so.

But all that said, Yraelz lines here are not impressive, and not brave -- basically tough love.

And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.

So let us say that on this day of all days, each of us carries with us the task of changing our hearts and minds. The division, the stereotypes, the scape-goating, the ease with which we blame our plight on others -- all of this distracts us from the common challenges we face -- war and poverty; injustice and inequality
Yraelz

Con

Aside from the fact that I am part of the resolution I have no idea why my opponent apparently made an account simply to challenge to this debate.

But sure, first thing that needs to be noted is the fact that my opponent offered no context what-so-ever, therefor I will be offering a context for this round.

Gay: a homosexual person, esp. a male.

This being the first noun version of the word gay to appear on dictionary.com.

Gay: In contemporary usage, the adjective gay usually describes a person's sexual orientation, being the standard term for homosexual.

This being the first line of the wiki article on Gay.

So, I will negating my opponents resolution that I am homosexual on two levels:

1. If my opponents opinion, "Yraelz is gay because I said so." is to be seen as some sort of evidence in this round then we must accept my own opinion as a greater form of evidence. This being because I know more about myself, specifically my personal feelings. Even if this person can somehow prove he knows me in real life, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't, he couldn't possibly know me better than myself. Therefor to accept my opponents opinion as proof in this round means that you must accept my opinion of myself as greater proof. With that beings said, I state,

"I am most definitely not gay. In fact I have a girlfriend who I happen to like a great deal and am feeling rather heterosexual."

2. Debate is a an intellectual game. Debate is not an opinion poll. In other words my opponents opinion does not hold weight as evidence in any debate round. If opinions in themselves (notice my opponent has provided 0 relevant conclusions aside from his opinion) were seen as evidence or proof of something then the entire point of debate would be moot. As much as I wish I could just click on any challenge period debate and simply offer my opinion to win, I cannot. Without any evidence that I am in fact gay my opponent has offered no conclusive proof to enhance his side of the debate. And as my opponent is not only the instigator but also the Pro, thereby attempting to affirm the resolution, he has a burden of proof. Until my opponent can bring proof he loses this debate.

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Disclaimer: This all anyone needs to read, from this point on I am going to be arguing my opponents completely irrelevant points informally.

1. You claim,"But all that said, Yraelz lines here are not impressive, and not brave -- basically tough love." I offer you to explain such a statement. I sometimes feel my lines on debate.org are impressive. But perhaps you speak of something else.

2. "And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community."

>>Sure, any point?

3. "We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity."

>>I have done neither though I agree people do. Any point?

4. "Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation."

>>Alright, whats your point?

5. "So let us say that on this day of all days, each of us carries with us the task of changing our hearts and minds. The division, the stereotypes, the scape-goating, the ease with which we blame our plight on others -- all of this distracts us from the common challenges we face -- war and poverty; injustice and inequality"

>>I find myself in agreeance with this statement. But once again I am failing to see the relevance of said point. Do you have a point?
Debate Round No. 1
scartissue

Pro

na i was just trying to make friends in an unusual way sorry for the inconvenience
The thing is im bisexual anyway so this argument makes no point whatsoever
so Friends?

ps:the rest of this stuff is just placed to extend the context.

Once upon a time, there was once a guy who was very much in love with this girl. This romantic guy folded 1,000 pieces of papercranes as a gift to his girl. Although, at that time he was just a small executive in his company, his future doesn't seemed too bright, they were very happy together. Until one day, his girl told him she was going to Paris and will never come back. She also told him that she cannot visualise any future for the both of them, so let's go their own ways there and then... heartbroken, the guy agreed.
When he regained his confidence, he worked hard day and night, slogging his body and mind just to make something out of himself. Finally with all these hardwork and with the help of friends, this guy had set up his own company...
"You never fail until you stop trying." he always told himself. "I must make it in life!"
One rainy day, while this guy was driving, he saw an elderly couple sharing an umbrella in the rain walking to some destination. Even with the umbrella, they were still drenched. It didn't take him long to realise those were his ex-girlfriend's parents. With a heart in getting back at them, he drove slowly beside the couple, wanting them to spot him in his luxury sedan. He wanted them to know that he wasn't the same anymore, he had his own company, car, condo, etc. He had made it in life!
Before the guy can realise, the couple was walking towards a cemetary,and he got out of his car and followed them...and he saw his ex-girlfriend, a photograph of her smiling sweetly as ever at him from her tombstone... and he saw his precious papercranes in a bottle placed beside her tomb. Her parents saw him. He walked over and asked them why this had happened. They explained, she did not leave for France at all. She was stricken ill with cancer. In her heart, she had believed that he will make it someday, but she did not want her illness to be his obstacle ... therefore she had chosen to leave him.
She had wanted her parents to put his papercranes beside her, because, if the day comes when fate brings him to her again he can take some of those back with him. The guy just wept ...the worst way to miss someone is to be sitting right beside them but knowing you can't have them and will never see them again.
The End."
Yraelz

Con

Hmmm, I tend to hold a rather high standard for what is a friend is to me. Especially when it comes to online issues where I never actually know the person for real. But yeah, as an online friend, friends.

Anyways, I suppose as far as voters go, I don't have anything to debate, so I'll leave that alone.

You're story on the other hand was rather touching and at the same time somewhat realistic. The feeling of losing someone that one holds close to the heart because of some kind of feeling of inadequacy seems rather familiar to me. Strangely >=E

On a side note I can see where your story could have a very large application in a gay man or womans life. In the sense that if the person they happen to like is not gay their is very little to nothing that the gay person can do about that. Thus they are condemned to be sitting right next to someone with the knowledge that they will never have said person.

Though this brings up an interesting point. Do you feel that being gay is a choice? Do I get another story in your final round?
Debate Round No. 2
scartissue

Pro

I infact believe that being gay is not a choice.
I would believe that over 50% of gay people would love to infact experience the love of a woman rather than a man.
Being gay is actually a forced decision which was brought upon since the day you happened to be born.

People like me on the other hand "Bisexuals", rather have it much different.
we are a minority in the social community and often find it hard to cope.
Around 70% of Bisexuals do not reveal the fact that they are, but try to make themselves seem as heterosexual as possible.
I on the other hand feel comfortable to talk about my sexual situation as i feel no harm in it whatsoever.

The main reason thought that gay people try to hide the fact of their homosexuality, it because of the reason of "rejection from society."

At one stage i feared the same rejection factor but had to make a tough decision.
The decision lead me to acceptance from my family and friends and now im happily in a relationship.

Overall, being gay is not a decision but something you are born with and must accept to live a happy life.
Yraelz

Con

Hmmmm, I happen to be in agreeance with you that being gay is not a choice. I also feel that being straight or any particular sexual orientation is a choice. But all of this is based on the premise that I do not feel I can suddenly choose to be gay/bisexual/asexual. Though I have wished once or twice that I was asexual (meaning in this context that I find nothing attractive in a romantic way).

Though I do have a question on your last comment that I would ask you answer in the comment section if you see it. You said,

"I would believe that over 50% of gay people would love to infact experience the love of a woman rather than a man."

Why would this be? Or why do you feel it is true?
Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Haha, but I can still argue that it is indeed occuring.

And I will agree with your second statement. Humans have every capability to believe they are feeling in a way that they are not. This doesn't rule out the possibility that naturally homosexual does exist though.
Posted by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
But then I could argue that that's just a fluke with no consistent explanation (and doesn't even occur in all species, but actually in relatively few of them).

Or I could reiterate my original claim that it happens far more often in humans than any other animals; and that therefore, while it may be 'natural' for some small percentage, it has other causes for the majority.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
True that, but I could also make the argument that homosexuality occurs in other species apparently naturally.
Posted by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
I was referring to the argument with sadolite there. On my argument with you: If you really want to get down to pure "human nature", it's rather clear that biologically, the only sensible form of sex is heterosexual sex. One could make the claim that homosexuality by its very nature goes beyond that, just like a good many things that have arisen through human civilization.
Posted by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
Well, I agree that it's a pretty tenuous connection, and honestly I made it up on the spot. My actual set of beliefs on this topic are far too complicated for a comments section (perhaps I could bring it all up in a full debate), so I was trying to simplify. I guess I failed. :P
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Oh wow, perhaps I should consider proof reading my comments a little better. I intended to say that I could not find myself attracted to someone of the same sex.

But I suppose the orientation is irrelevant to the point I am arguing.

Anyways I agree with you on the point that feelings can suppressed but I argue that such action is not natural. I am strictly arguing human nature here.

The other idea you are arguing with Sadolite I must also disagree with. The fact that something gives pleasure does not make one attracted to it. I can receive pleasure by rubbing up against a wall in the right way, this does not mean that I am attracted to said wall.
Posted by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
P.S. sadolite: It's advisable to look over comments before posting them: In your last comment, you said you wouldn't ever willingly "have any kind of sex with the OPPOSITE sex" (emphasis mine).
Posted by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
sadolite, whether you'd be willing to have sex with another man is irrelevant to what I was saying; the fact of the matter is that you'd enjoy it, to some extent. Sexual pleasure comes from the physical act, not how you feel about it - and the physical act is pleasurable, at least to some extent, regardless of who it's with. The extension I then made is that I believe that fact in and of itself means that there's some small degree of attraction toward members of the same sex in even the straightest person out there.

Yraelz: First, you might want to read over your last comment and then recall that you were trying to convince people you're NOT gay in this debate. ;)

I think it's possible to change your orientation. Do I think there's any reason to? No. Would I advise it? Absolutely not, because the psychological effect would most likely be rather disastrous. But at the very least, it's possible to repress feelings or attractions - especially when, as I think is often the case, they come from non-biological sources.
Posted by sadolite 9 years ago
sadolite
Zakk, I don't accept the fact that I could receive sexual pleasure from the same sex and I never have and I never will. You would have to force me at gun point with the fear of death form me to have any kind of sex with the opposite sex. Speak for yourself.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Ah alright, fair enough, I misinterpreted what you were saying. I do not feel that homosexuality (the orientation) is a choice at all.

This is based on my own experience, I find that when I enter a room no matter how long or hard I stare at someone of the opposite sex I cannot find myself being sexually attracted to them.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by doyou.loveme 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Oolon_Colluphid 9 years ago
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