The Instigator
slave123
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Danjos162
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Is a hell real as in a literal place where people burn forever?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/20/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 549 times Debate No: 99143
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

slave123

Con

Hell is not a real place

I believe it is a state of mind

I don't care what the Bible says or what the Quran says

Or what any scripture says

It makes no sense that a loving God would throw his own creation in a fiery pit forever!

If you have children would you burn your children alive just because they disobey you?

Burning people alive is a cruel and unusual punishment

Furthermore why forever?

If we just sin or so called sin by looking at a beautiful person

Why do we deserve to burn in hell forever?

Why an infinite punishment for finite sin?

That is not justice that is plain cruel!

And what will we learn from an infinite punishment anyways?

And also our nervous system dies when we die

So how can we feel pain when we are dead?

Most people are not murderers or rapists or criminals

So why will they go to hell for just enjoying their own private life?

It makes no sense

On the other hand I can accept hell as a state of mind for evil people

Extreme guilt could be viewed as hell

Prison could be viewed as hell

And maybe if there is an afterlife there could be a timeout zone for criminals?

But the hell of Christianity and Islam makes no sense and I can't accept it

The burden of proof will be on pro to prove hell exists as described in bible or Quran

But the Quran and bible can't be used as evidence

Anymore the gospel of the FSM could be used as evidence for monsters

That is all circular reasoning

Please use hard empirical evidence we can verify

And that makes sense

I look forward to a good debate
Danjos162

Pro

Hell is a place that exists but no one is currently in except bound angels who habituated with humans during antediluvian times (pre-flood).
Hell was not created for humans. Hell was originally created for angels. When humans fell to sin, now humans too can go to hell. Here's where most people believe God owes them something. God owes you and I absolutely nothing. A loving God sent His only son to die for all of mankind.
Would you give your child up to save murderers, adulteres, thieves etc..
A loving God did that as a sacrifice so people can go to heaven. Hell is for when Jesus comes back and destroys evil. A loving God gave you a way out it is your fault if you don't except him, hence you are the one making the decision to go to hell. You have a choice, we all have free will.
The reason it is forever is because when Jesus comes back he will rebuild His kingdom on a new Earth. Basically he said it will be for eternity hence why it is.
Where does one get sin from looking at someone beautiful. My Fianc" when I first met her was absolutely stunning,she still is ;). Its not a sin that she's beautiful God made her that way. It is a sin when you start lusting after them. Woman are not objects and do not deserves to be objectified for sexual purposes. They are people with thoughts, feelings, and morals. We are to treat them with the utmost respect and not lust after them like animals. Men respect women, or atlas they should. Once again it is not a sin by looking at someone beautiful.
People deserve to burn in hell because they're sinful. It is not our personal faults we were born into a sin cursed Earth. From the moment of Adam and Eve's sin the Earth was cursed. We have to ask for forgiveness for sins we commit. There is a way out but God doesn't force people to love Him because we have free will. We have the ability to choose whether we want to have eternal life in heaven or hell. No justice would mean everyone is already damned to hell, that's not the case.
There is no intended lesson. Hell is strictly a consequence for not repenting God and choosing sin over Him, plain and simple. We have the free will to choose, God doesn't force us to love Him. No lesson is expected just a consequence for choosing sin.
Hell will be a painful place of eternal suffering. Think of the worst kind of suffering there is, hell is going to be worse. That's due to choosing sin over God due to your free will.
Most people are not murderers, rapists or criminals (thank God). We still all sin though. No matter how small we are all sinners. If you've ever told a lie, lusted after another person, stolen something: then you are a lieing adulterous theif.
It is impossible not to sin. I enjoy my private life. It is when you there is sin in your life that you let control your actions that is the issue. What people do in their private life is up to them. If you don't choose to recognize sin as sin though, then thats on you.
Between murderers and rapists those are nasty things to be. Just like our society has punishments for things like that, so does God. He has consequences for people who do things that extreme. They will face hardship in this life if they choose to do those things. Just because not everyone is a murderer and a rapist doesn't mean they still do not have sin. It might be no where near as bad, but it is still a sin.
To clarify Hell is a literal place that one day people who, keyword, made a CHOICE to choose sin over God, will be casted into. Hell is a place of eternal suffering and can be avoided by making the CHOICE to choose God over sin. Criminals recieve more burdens and consequences on this Earth but ultimately will end up in Hell like everyone else who chose sin over God.
Debate Round No. 1
slave123

Con

Pro presents no proof of hell

The burden of proof is on him

He talks about bible

I don't care what bible says

I don't care what Jesus did

I want hard evidence

There is no proof Adam was first man

There were cavemen before him

There was no original sin

We are not sinners

Sin is mind control

If I want to look at a beautiful woman I can

I am not harming her

If I want to watch pornography I can

The worlds not ending just because I enjoy myself

Yes killing people is wrong

But having fun in life as long as you don't hurt anyone is 100% ok

So tell me pro

Would you light your children on fire if they play video games?

They are just having fun

And you want to punish them

Same with me so called sinning

What right does God have to punish me forever?

I never killed anyone

And you say hell was made for angels?

Angels are good creatures who can't do bad

So what would they be doing in hell

Fallen angels makes no sense it is an oxymoron

Angels don't have the ability to be bad since they are angels

But this is fairy linguistics

There is no proof angels exist either

So why would God create hell for imaginary fairy creatures and then put humans in it?

And what part of the body goes to hell?

Body is dead eaten by worms on earth

We feel no pain since our nervous system is dead

So tell me how we go to hell?

First of all where is hell

I never seen it on the map

Can you show me a picture of hell?

What is soul?

Can you put soul in bottle and show it to me?

How can soul suffer if it has no nervous system

How can an immaterial soul burn in physical fire?

You said hell is literal so therefore physical right?

Well physical fire needs physical fuel

If soul is non physical and immaterial how will it burn?

Your beliefs make no sense ?

So in short pro provided no empirical evidence of hell

And his concepts make no sense
Danjos162

Pro

Here is the funny thing, you want evidence that hell physically exists. Yet you do don't want any evidence shown out of where it came from. Unfortunately based on your beliefs, and based on mine as a Christian, you will have your physical evidence once you are there. That is your choice though, remember that.
Sin is not mind control. All humans are born with morals instilled in them. Such as murder is wrong and rape is wrong. If we were all evolved from animals it would be survival of the fittest as is believed in natural selection. Then when people murder and get raped it wouldn't matter, according to evolutionists.
There is no real proof of cavemen before Adam. Hopefully you have heard of Carbon Dating. The problem with carbon dating, since you are referencing things having to do with age, it all comes from a man made formula. The only way to know if a formula is right is if you already "know" the answer. Hence why creationists have proof the Earth is only 6,000 to 7,000 years old and Evolutionists have proof that the Earth is billions of years old. That is all based on formulas that are man made so both the creationist side and the evolutionist side cannot be used for proof since it is a made formula and cannot be prove 100%.
Once again no one said you can't look at a beautiful woman. Watching porn on the other hand is objectifying her, which is wrong. Woman deserve respect, no one is saying you can't watch porn, but it is wrong.
You are correct the world will not end because of your sin by watching porn. It is sinful though.

I would not light my children on fire for playing video game.
Yet somehow you compare video games to sin which is non-logical. Video games are fake, doing things in real life, REAL LIFE, is real. Very vast distinction.
God is not lighting His children on fire, you do not understand who is children are. God's children are people who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It says in the Bible, if you are not for God you are against him and are children of the devil since you chose sin over God. Everyone has the choice to choose God over sin but you make the choice to go into the fire, God give you the option.

God created mankind. God owes us nothing. Yet he sent His son to die for the sins of the world. God didn't owe you that but he gave you an option. You are choosing to be in eternal punishment. He gave you a way out.

Once again your ignorance of things in the Bible is becoming more and more apparent. Angels can do bad.... Where do you think demons came from? Demons are fallen angels. A third of the angels left heaven with Satan. Hell was created for the sins of angels. When humans then sinned it became for them too. Angels can do bad that is once again where demons come from.

Your body is here on the Earth when you die your soul is what goes to hell. I will use the Bible to explain these things since your asking about a BIBLICAL topic. Hell is somewhere we cannot find or know. In the Bible it says we are all separated by a vast chasm in the Book of Luke.

A soul is who we are. Your bodies are just the vessels that our soul live in. Once you die your soul leaves your body, its temporary vessel and moves on to the after life. The soul doesn't physically burn. It is eternal suffering. When people go to heaven they get perfect bodies as what was originally intended before sin. The Bible does not speak of body's being in hell, just people.

To best help you understand think of lava, since hell will be a lake of fire. It does not need something to burn off of it is combusted.

Your beliefs make no sense. You twist the meaning without understanding. I am more than happy to explain it all and try to help you understand it. I have no problem with your beliefs because every person has free will to believe what they want.

Me concept "Con" make sense when you learn about it and not just make outside assumptions. The same way I study evolution and other religions is the same thing a person interested in a topic should study what they're trying to understand.

Yet since you are adamant about looking at where hell comes from, The Bible, you will never truly understand it then.

The same way you want hard evidence hell exists, I can ask for you the same about creation. No one was there that is alive at the creation of man. Christians believe an intelligent designer was there who created the universe. Evolutionists believe it was a due to a combustion of matter which is all quantum physics. It is either you believe in matter existing before anything or a creator existing before anything.

There is no hard evidence that hell physically exists. The same way there's no physical way to prove the Earth came from matter that was just floating. The only way to validate what I believe the is through the physical evidence in the Bible that separates it from all other religious texts. There are prophecies over a thousand years that eventually came true. The Bible is the only book that has that many prophecies all true. A link will be provided below so you can see all the prophecies if you were interested and wanted to truly understand what you are asking.
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org...

Really the concept of your argument is not about hell but is about the validity of the Bible, since that is where hell originated from.

The same way you have no absolute empirical evidence about the creation of the universe, I have no absolute empirical evidence that hell exists except for the validity of the Bible which has hell in it, hence making hell true.

The same way you are asking for hell without the Bible would be me asking for you to explain behavior without the brain. If the brain did not exist we would not be able to "behave" since that is where our behavior comes from. Hell is in the Bible just as behavior is carried out through the brain. You cannot ask for one without the other, it makes no logical sense.

On top of all the prophecies in the Bible there are accounts of the Bibles facts in regular history by the local governments at the time. Many of the governments wrote attacking the Christian faith and beliefs. Here is also a link provided for more information in all historical facts shown not just in the Bible but by governments at the time.
http://www.equip.org...

So the ultimate question your asking is the validity of the Bible in order for hell to be true. If you want to understand what hell is and where it came from you need to look at the book that talks about it. Then you will be able to understand it. It is a little foolish to ask for something that came from The Bible, and ask for proof of it outside of the Bible. The same way I used the analogy before about understanding behavior without the brain, it just is not possible.

The narrative of all I am saying is you have a choice to accept God.
You have the choice to choose sin over God.
You, yes you, are making the decision to go to hell by choosing sin over God.
You can try and blame God all you want, but he gave you a way out that you chose not to take.

Hell cannot be understood without the Bible, which is where it comes from. No evidence can be shown about the creation of the world. Even for creationists, they must look at the Bible, what makes it valid, then believe what the Bible says about creation.

You put your belief in matter combustion, I put my belief in an intelligent designer. You put your belief in no after life, I put my belief in a book that has truths prove in it throughout the entire thing. That book has hell in it thus making hell understandable one when you understand the Bible.

Outside of this debate you are always welcome to contact me if you really want to understand it. What I am saying here is not to impede on your choice to believe what you want, but to show you how you can understand hell and get the proof you want.
Debate Round No. 2
slave123

Con

The burden of proof is on pro to prove hell exists

So far he has not met the burden of proof

He still quotes bible

But the Bible is wrong

And just a fairy tale like Harry Potter

I want hard physical evidence

I want a picture at least that isn't photoshopped

I asked where is hell?

Pro hasn't answered

It can't be under the earth

Even though there is molten lava no geologist thinks dead people live underground

It can't be in a black hole since they are light years away

And a soul would never reach there

It can't be on another dimension

Since there are only 3 dimensions

Acoording to string theory there may be 11 dimensions

But this is only a theory with no hard scientific evidence

Plus no one can imagine a 5th or 6th dimension so how could something incomprehensible even exist?

I personally think all multiverse and extra dimension theories are balony

They make no sense

If hell is another universe

Again how will the soul travel from this universe to another ?

Nothing can go faster than light!

I never said I believe in evolution

I don't know how we got here

I don't believe what I'm told

Neither in school nor church nor mosque nor tv nor news nor anything

I am a skeptic who thinks for myself

Now with regards to the universe being only 7000 years old

There are stars more than 7000 light years away how do you explain that?

Creationists say we are in the center of the universe???

Evidence please??!

As I said I don't trust what scientists say about carbon dating either

But with regards to Adam and Eve

Where are their remains???

Do you really believe a talking snake told them to eat an apple from a magic tree and that's why we sin???

Where is the proof of any of this???

It all sounds silly too

Talking snake magical tree lol

And with regards to porn

The girl gets paid to be naked

It is her choice

If I watch porn I am watching what they get paid to do

How is that sin

She gets more than respect she gets money

And sex is Normal

Why are you so brainwashed

It is ok to have sex and do drugs and get drunk or high

No one else gets hurt in the process

Murder rape and steeling are immoral however

Since they hurt others

The golden rule is simple

Treat others the way you want to be treated

No God needed

If I decide to kill you

That wouldn't be fair since you could do the same and I wouldn't like that

So I make an agreement with you we can't kill each other

It is common sense

No God or bible or Ten Commandments needed

The concept of sin as thought by the Bible is just mind control

Sin is fun such as adultery is fun

So that is why I compare sin with video games

There is no proof angels or demons exist

Fallen angels is an oxymoron

Since angel means good being

And fallen angel means bad good thing which is self contradictory

How can you be bad and good at the same time?

But angels are humans and demons are humans too

There are no ethereal beings

And demonic possession is just mental illness

And you talk about soul

What does soul look like?

Does it have eyes skin brain and nerves???

If not how it will experience hell

We are our brain

When our brain dies we die

If we had soul why would we need a brain even?

Cut off your brain and think with your soul if you believe soul is real

Now to disprove bible

Read 2 Samuel 24:9 and 1 chronicles 21:5

How many fighting men were there

800,000? Or 1,100,000?

See the Bible is wrong and hell isn't real
Danjos162

Pro

Burden of proof is fulfilled by my multiple responses and explanation to your statements.
Now to give you an answer to your failed attempt to about the apparent "contradiction" you said about the two Bible verses. You really must just Google random stuff and not know what your talking about. In this debate the amount of lack of knowledge comments like "fallen angels are an oxymoron." Before you debate a topic at least read up on it first.
The explanation for your Biblical verses question is the 1,100,000 soldiers of the 1 Chronicle passage included 300,000 young men not counted as "valiant" with the 800,000 soldiers of the 2 Samuel passage. Boom plain and simple. A little looking into your question would've served you well.
Once again hell is past a vast chasm, the specific location is not known because only dead people go there.... One day based on your arguments I am pretty sure you'll be able to tell me. How would you know where a soul cannot reach? Your statement as almost all of them makes no logical sense.
You may "think for yourself" but you should really consult with people to broaden your knowledge.
The universe was created in full form plain and simple. Evolutionists, and whatever you are, believe things took time to develop. Such as this tree would take 1 million years to get this big so the Earth must be X amount of years old. We believe when the Earth was created it was created in that full form. So the 1 million years it would take to form did not have to occur since it was created that old. Same thing with the stars 7000 light years away.
Creationists do not say we are at the center of the universe, once again an illogical statement you found off Google and did not look into.
Remains disintegrate........ I believe in a fallen angel taking form as a snake to make humans sin against God. The proof is in the Bible which you won't listen to anyway, so there is no point of talking about that.
People in this world are lost. Just like that girl getting paid to do that, it is a sad thing. Money is not better than respect because women should be valued. The sin is you are lusting after a woman you are not married to.

YES SEX IS NORMAL, IT IS A GIFT FROM GOD. God created sex to bond two people and make them one.
I am not brainwashed I just happen to know what I am talking about. I am not trying to twist everything you say because I do not want to believe it as you are.

You can do all those things, you have free will. It is a sin though, because it hurts someone, it hurts you.

In a world where there are crazy people the rule treat others the way you want to be treated is not always followed.

Now there are civilized people like you and I who wouldn't do that, but there are crazy people. Yes I will make that agreement with you, I won't kill you.

Common sense is simple, we all are looking for something in life. There is a hole in everybody and it is the desire to know God whether you like it or not. We take many things and try to fill that hole with other things that aren't God and they don't satisfy.

The concept of sin is not mind control, we all have morals instilled in us from the time we are born. We can sense right and wrong, sin exists. It is your right to not believe in it though.

The beginning is understanding you do need God, hopefully maybe one day you will get there.

Sin is fun the Bible even says it. Yet it does damage even though it is fun and pleasurable in the beginning. The Bible says sin is fun for a season. But eventually it grows and grows into an uncontrollable mess.

Fallen angels are not an oxymoron, we went through this already.

We do not know what a soul looks like, you can ask God one day. Demonic possession is a real thing and there are many reports of ghosts which are demons.

We have a brain to carry out our actions in our body. It is the control system of our body. The soul is you.

As I disproved in the beginning to your attempted Google Biblical disapproval 300,000 young men not counted as "valiant" with the 800,000 soldiers of the 2 Samuel passage plain and simple.

The Bible is right and Hell is real.

Thank you for a good debate.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by slave123 1 year ago
slave123
I am enjoying this debate we should do more in the future
Posted by Danjos162 1 year ago
Danjos162
It is actually not letter in a book, that is false. It is a collection of books in one book, The Bible.
Posted by slave123 1 year ago
slave123
You are right canis
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
No. it is letters in a book...
No votes have been placed for this debate.