The Instigator
debater28
Con (against)
The Contender
fire_wings
Pro (for)

Is abortion moral

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 12/30/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 353 times Debate No: 98539
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

debater28

Con

I believe that abortion is wrong because it violates the rights of the fetus. To intentionally kill an innocent being out of convenience is wrong. While women should have control over their own bodies, the truth is that no one has complete bodily autonomy. A person cannot walk around nude or block a fire exit during an emergency because "its their body".
In addition, the fetus isn't a part of the woman, it is its own person, with a unique set of organs, limbs, and DNA. The fetus simply is growing inside of the woman, not like a parasite, but in the womb, the way they are biologically designed to. Just like sex is designed to create a child, a uterus is designed to provide a place for it to grow. While a woman may choose to engage in sexual activity, she cannot choose the outcome of it. We can choose our actions, but not the results of our actions.
I think, though, that we agree that no woman should be forced to CONCEIVE, as that is wrong. But if a woman is raped, rather than responding to violence with more violence, we should work to help the woman get through such a traumatising experience rather than acting like it didn't happen.
Finally, I'd like to point out that the overwhelming majority of abortions are due to convenience rather than necessity. In fact, only 1% of abortions are for rape or incest. Abortion is wrong, and it shouldn't be allowed under any circumstance.
fire_wings

Pro

I accept the debate. Thanks for CON to host it.


Argument 1: The Fetus is not alive


My first argument will be about the fetus not being alive. There are 7 categories a living thing must have in order to be called living, and if it doesn't even match one of the case, it is not considered living. 1.4 percent of abortions are after 21 weeks [1], so in the part of senstivity, I will be using this 21 week thing, not the 28 week thing according to the definitons, as a really rare number, only 1.4% of people make abortions in that time. I will now list the 7 categories, and see if the fetus makes it, or not [2].

Movement: The Fetus can move [3].

Respiration: The fetus cannot breathe in it's own. It needs help from its mother [4].

Sensitivity: The fetus can sense at 17 weeks in his earliest, but as in average, 26 weeks, which is over a month before most abortions occur [5].

Growth: A fetus can grow

Reproduction: A fetus cannot reproduce

Excretion: The fetus is usually not going to excrete, but it is likely [6].

Nutrition: A fetus cannot take nutrients by its own, the mother takes it for the fetus.

A fetus needs to match ALL of these 7 following to be considered living. The fetus can only reasonably do 4, but if it is a late abortion, or if it unlikely excretes, it goes to 4 categories. The fetus doesn't match all of them, so the fetus does not have the right of life, so we can kill it, because it is not a living thing, hence doesn't have any right, or liberty, so we should make abortion legal, according to my framework. The resolution is negated, vote for CON.

Argument 2: The Right of Life

This will be my shortest argument, because it is mostly explained in my previous argument, but I will explain it a bit more. As I explained in my 1st argument, the fetus is not living. Hence, as it says in my framework, that if the fetus is not alive, and the mother has liberty of her body, the fetus should be killed, it has no right, and it is harming the mother's body, who has liberty. The fetus doesn't have the right of life, so we should ban abortion by saying that abortion is murder, because it is not, according to my arguments and my sourced evidence, so as abortion is not murder, and harms the mother who has rights, abortion should not be illegal, or should be legal. The resolution is negated, and abortion should be legal because the fetus has no right, and is not murder if we kill it.

Argument 3: Liberty


The mother has liberty to her body. In the previous arugments above I have shown that the fetus is NOT living. The mother is. As in the framework, and the 2nd argument, the fetus is not living, so it has no rights to life, or liberty. The mother, who is living has rights of life, and has liberty. Many mothers every year die because of not having an abortion, because a baby costs money, and gives you stress, and the mothers don't bear the stress, and in the end die because of these fetus, who aren't even living. The mother has the liberty to do what her body, and she does not need to care for a fetus that isn't even living. Abortion is constitional, because it shows that you own your body, not this fetus. If abortion is illegal, or banned, then that means that the women doesn't own her body, which is unconstitional, therefore, abortion should be legal.

Argument 4: Illegal Abortions

My argument will be about illegal abortions. An illegal abortion is very useless because of 2 reasons. 1) It is dangerous. 2.16 million women experience unsafe and illegal abortions, and 47000 women died from it each year [8], and 2) it is very expensive. The women are not doctors, so they can't produce safe abortions, and they are illegal abortions. So there are no reasons why we should have an illegal abortion, because women do produce abortions anyways, and they are more dangerous, so we should just have abortion legalized. The resolution is affirmed because of this argument, that illegal abortions are dangerous and bad, so we should just legalize it.

Argument 5: Teenagers

"19% of teens who have had sexual intercourse become pregnant each year. 78% of these pregnancies are unplanned. 6 in 10 teen pregnancies occur among 18-19 year olds. [9]"

This shows that teenagers have babies too. This totally wrecks the teenagers life. The 20s of your life is when you go to college, and earn lots of money, but these people need to care for the babies.

There is a website to see how much your baby costs. The region is texas to florida all the way to New York, earns over 60,000 to 100,000. A average household earns around 50,000 dollars every year [10], so it is generous to make it over the average, a public school also. The cost was over 319,000 dollars [11]. That is an really high amount, around over 6 times over a normal household earns. Teenagers must earn less, but lets just go for that example. If abortion is illegal, then that means that the teenager has to take care of all the things. If abortion is legal, then the teenager can remove its stress. So, abortion should be legal.

Conclusion

I have shown lot's of sourced evidence that abortions should be legal, and that the fetus is not alive. Therefore it doesn't have rights. Therefore, please vote for CON. In this debate, as I had shown lots of good sourced evidence to show that abortion is legal. Therefore, please vote for Con, as the mother has liberty to her body also. The resolution is negated, therefore, vote for CON.

Sources

There are no rules if you can post sources in an external link, so the sources are in the 2nd round of this debate: http://www.debate.org...

Vote PRO.

Debate Round No. 1
debater28

Con

Thanks for responding.

Just to start off, I was wondering where you got your list of requirements for being living? As far as I've seen, these are the requirements to be considered living:

1. Living things are made of cells
2. Living things obtain and use energy
3. Living things have different levels of organization
4. Living things grow and develop
5. Living things reproduce
6. Living things respond to their environment
7. Living things adapt to their environment

I'm sure you can agree that 1, 2, 3, and 4 all apply. Let me know if you have a concern on one of those.
As for reproduction, of course a fetus cannot reproduce, but it will be able to. While in development, those necessary parts are grown. And a 5 year old cannot reproduce, but I think we can agree that they are alive. They cannot YET, as those specific parts are still developing.
We know as well that a fetus can respond to stimuli, and a fetus grows to its environment an adapts during birth to a new environment.
Many of your points are supported by the idea that the fetus isn't alive. But it is. By its very definition, it is alive, as it is growing and developing.

And yes, women should be able to control their bodies (although I did mention before that no one is allowed complete bodily autonomy), but a fetus is not part of the woman's body. It is inside the woman's body. The fetus has unique DNA, along with its own limbs and organs. In some cases the fetus has a different blood type, or different genitalia. I'm sure you would agree that pregnant women do not have four arms and legs, or two sets of internal organs.

The illegal abortion was an interesting point, but the unsafe abortions occur primarily in countries that don't have advanced medical technology. However, the main point I want to make is this: If the fetus is a human being deserving human rights, why should we make it safer to kill them? Sometimes a murderer is shot by the police, but we don't make murder legal just so that those individuals can kill without worry of punishment. In addition, in this country, abortion has never been a huge cause of death amongst women. According to Mary Calderone, who was a president of Planned Parenthood, only 260 people died in 1957 due to any kind of abortion. Many statistics fight the number as 5,000 to 10,000 annually, even though that number was revealed to be false by Dr. Bernard Nathanson, one of the founders of NARAL.

When it comes to teenagers, I don't believe that abortion to teen pregnancy. Education is better than resorting to abortion. By teaching teens to be responsible, to be careful, and to think about making any decisions that could result in a pregnancy, we can lower the rate. Rather than confronting the issue of teens becoming pregnant, abortion just allows the same problem to continue.

I would also like to point out this: the only purpose of sex is reproduction. While it can be something fun and exciting, it is designed to produce children. While anyone may choose to have sex, they don't get to choose the potential outcome that they become pregnant. Being pregnant isn't a punishment for having sex, it is simply to result of an action that was designed purely for that purpose.

And while you didn't want to talk about late-term abortions, I would like to include this statistic. You said only 1.4% of abortions are late-term. Because there are 1.06 million abortions every year, that means that about 14,840 late-term abortions occur annually. To compare to that figure, around 13,290 people were killed with firearms. Just because it isn't the majority doesn't mean it is irrelevant.

Finally, I would like to say that our society already considers the unborn to be persons. The only thing that can take away the status is if the fetus is unwanted by the mother. The murder of a pregnant woman can be counted as a double homicide, yet an abortion of the same child would be considered fine. To protect someone based on how much they are wanted is immoral. All unborn children should be protected equally.
fire_wings

Pro

I thank my opponent for contributing the time to make his/her argument. I will be rebutting my opponent's round 1 and 2. My opponent doesn't give any sources, so technically, all of the text that she gave are bare assertions. I will give the framework that I couldn't give last round, even though there's no particular need in it.

Framework

My framework will be centered around liberty. If a fetus is a human, or a living thing, then it has liberty, and the right of life. Though the liberty of the mother is also there. If it doesn't, then it has no liberty, and it is harming the mother's liberty to her body, so abortion should be legal. My framework will be important around the debate to see if the fetus has the liberty and right of life. If we are still banning abortion, then it is a harm to the mother's liberty, which contradicts this framework, making it ILLEGAL, as liberty is the 1st amendment [7], and the government needs to give the life, liberty and security of one's self, and does not do its job, hence it is illegal.

Round 1

As I have clearly said in my first round, the fetus is no living, and it does not meet all of the seven characteristics which are needed in life. Because the fetuses are not living, there don't have any rights, so the argument that if violates the rights of a fetus is wrong because the fetus has *no* rights. The fetus isn't part of the woman, but it does relate, and can harm the women. Many abortions occur because of the fetus-harming. The mother has the liberty, but then it cannot harm others, (harm principle), and the fetus doesn't count as other because it is not a living being. But blocking a fire exit harms others, so it is anyways not allowed, and people will just push. The Fetus is not part of the woman, I know that, and that's not what I am talking about. The fetus is like an annoying mosquito, and she can choose the outcome. If the fetus hurts her, she has rights too, when the fetus doesn't have rights. From this, I have proven that my opponent's arguments are wrong, and abortion should be legal.

Round 2

I have already gave the sources, and it is in many textbooks. It is a waste to give more sources, as I already gave a few. What the opponent's list is a bare assertion, and many of them are in my list, and the fetus doesn't follow it. With that point anyways, Con can't win anything. 1 isn't a necessity, it's just what they have. Like it is the same thing if I have a brain or not. It isn't a characteristic. My opponent responded to a few of the characteristics, but she didn't talk about some like excretion, nutrition, etc. So, the fetus is not living, and it's just a plain fact, there no way you can oppose it, just like arguing that the Earth is flat when it obviously isn't flat.

Now to illegal abortions. Unsafe abortions do occur in developing countries, around 90% of them, but that isn't the point. First of all, there *ARE* Illegal Abortions in countries, even the US is the point. The fetus doesn't deserve human rights, and it is safer to kill them for the mother, who has rights. Even though abortion wasn't a huge cause of death, there are a thousand every year, and that's a lot, but not in percentage. Maybe in 1957 there were a few, but there is a *major* difference in population, so of course the numbers will be different.

Now teens. Who will teach them to become responsible for a baby? A school? It just suddenly happens, and the whole life of a teenager is destroyed. Imagine if you are in high school, with tests, and you have a BABY to take care of. That's big amount of stress. Therefore abortions should be allowed. Many of the late term abortions are because of the pain of the mother, and it is done because of emergency. So it doesn't really need much importance.

I have clearly showed that abortion should be legal, so vote for PRO.

Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
abortion is moral, get over it.. there is no little soul flying to hell gets some pills
Posted by illegalcombat 1 year ago
illegalcombat
My understanding is that your arguing that abortion should not be allowed from the moment of conception, is this correct ?
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