The Instigator
ctalbot25
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
justin.graves
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points

Is abortion murder?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
ctalbot25
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,062 times Debate No: 36146
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

ctalbot25

Con

The statement "Abortion is murder" is inherently flawed. Abortion is legal in the United States in the first trimester. So, if we know that abortion is legal, then it cannot be murder. Murder is a legal term, meaning the "unlawful" killing of someone. So you should really use better terminology if you want to debate someone and you think that you cannot lose. But, I know what you meant by your comments and I'll argue what you truly meant. I do not believe that abortion is the killing of a human being because I do not consider a fetus in the first trimester a human being. Fetuses cannot even sustain themselves without being physically attached to their mothers. How can we consider something its own thing if it is physically dependent upon another being and has no other way of survival? We cannot. Abortion may prevent life, but it does not end it. And if you are against preventing life, you are also against all forms of birth control.
justin.graves

Pro

Murder is indeed a legal term meaning the "unlawful" killing of someone. My opponent's contention can be summed up as follows:

"Abortion is legal in the United States in the first trimester. So, if we know that abortion is legal, then it cannot be murder."

Well... not quite.

Here is a list of countries where abortion is illegal:


Angola,
Central African Rep.,
Chad
Congo
Benin
Gabon
Guinea-Bissau
Kenya
Madagascar,
Mauritius,
Mauritania,
Senegal,
Somalia,
Uganda.
Afghanistan,
Iran,
Egypt,
Lebanon,
Libya,
Oman,
Syria,
United Arab Emirates
Yemen.
Bangladesh,
Myanmar,
Indonesia,
Laos,
Papua New Guinea
Philippines
Sri Lanka
Malta
Colombia,
Ireland
Brazil,
Guatemala,
Haiti,
Honduras,
Nicaragua,
Panama,
Venezuela,
Paraguay,
Dominican Republic
Chile, El Salvador
Mexico
Sudan,
Cote d’Ivoire
Lesotho
Mali
Niger
Tanzania

Under most circumstances, abortion is illegal in these countries and hence can be defined as murder, the unlawful killing of someone.

Sources:
http://www.whichcountry.co...
Debate Round No. 1
ctalbot25

Con

You said "abortion is illegal in these countries and hence can be defined as murder, the unlawful killing of someone." By considering the fetus to be "someone" you are begging the question. You must ARGUE that the fetus is, in fact, a human being. Now this debate has come to the question "Is a fetus a human being?" It is my contention that a fetus should not be considered a human being for many reasons. While a fetus is human (it consists of human tissue and DNA) it is not a human BEING. Just as a flake of skin from my body is human but not human being. While you may say that a flake of skin and a zygote are not comparable, they both have the potential to become a human being (cloning would allow the skin flake to become a human being). However, realize that I am not saying that a flake of skin and a fetus are the same thing, I am simply saying that they have similar qualities. Also, while the fetus may have human qualities, it is not yet its own entity. You may say that a fetus is a "life" and this may be true. However, this does not mean that it is a HUMAN BEING yet. A fetus has never, or very rarely, been considered a human being. Laws were made to protect human beings and there is no legal precedent for applying these laws to fetuses. My opponent has still not made any progress in this debate considering that he simply made the assumption that a fetus is "someone" which implies that a fetus is a human being. It is obvious that it is my belief that a fetus is not a human being. If it were a human being, abortion would be murder in the United States. However, this is not the case. It is also not necessarily the case that abortion is murder in any of the other countries you listed. You simply said that it was illegal, which does not mean that it is considered a human being! If a country deems abortion illegal, this does not mean that the country considers the fetus to be a human being.
justin.graves

Pro

justin.graves forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
ctalbot25

Con

I would like to, once again, state that my opponent is attempting to argue that abortion is murder. However, murder means to "unlawfully kill a human being." Therefore, there are a few problems with the statement "abortion is murder." First, abortion is legal in the United States, so it can not be the "unlawful" killing of a human being. Second, a fetus and a human being are two different things. Even if my opponent has shown abortion to be unlawful in other countries, he has not proven that it is considered MURDER in other countries, because no country puts a fetus and a human being on the same level. Also, there has been no attempt at an argument for a fetus being a human being. So, at this point, there is no support that abortion is murder considering that it is lawful in all fifty states and also considering that a fetus is not a human being. The statement "abortion is murder" is simply fallacious and logically invalid. While it may be argued that a fetus is human and does have human qualities, this still does not make it a human being, which is what it needs to be considered for abortion to be murder. Even during the stages where abortion is illegal, it is never legally considered murder to abort the fetus. Simply put, abortion is NOT murder.
justin.graves

Pro

justin.graves forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by ctalbot25 3 years ago
ctalbot25
It really did not matter though, because he was still unable to argue that abortion could ever be considered murder.
Posted by MysticEgg 3 years ago
MysticEgg
Oh... specific countries? I'd recommend that ctalbot25 edit his debate for specifics in the future. To avoid this interpretation.
Posted by MysticEgg 3 years ago
MysticEgg
Murder is illegal by definition.
Abortion is not illegal.
Abortion is not murder.
Why did you need so many characters? :P
Posted by ctalbot25 3 years ago
ctalbot25
I'd love to hear your opinion!
Posted by jzonda415 3 years ago
jzonda415
"While you may say that a flake of skin and a zygote are not comparable, they both have the potential to become a human being (cloning would allow the skin flake to become a human being)."

Lol. Funny. I would love to have a debate on this same topic with you ctalbot25.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Merrit 3 years ago
Merrit
ctalbot25justin.gravesTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to Con because of Pro's FF. S&G tied. Arguments to Con. Pro used a source, therefore, sources to Pro.
Vote Placed by Nataliella 3 years ago
Nataliella
ctalbot25justin.gravesTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Con because Pro forfeited. Spelling and grammar were efficient on both sides. Arguments go to Con because Con made more arguments. Sources go to Pro because they used more than Con.
Vote Placed by LevelWithMe 3 years ago
LevelWithMe
ctalbot25justin.gravesTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF. Pro never established personhood for "someone" to apply.