Is feminism necessary.
I accept the challenge and I look forward to a hopefully interesting debate.
I would just like to give a definition of feminism and I will make my case in the next four rounds.
Feminism is "The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes", I am interested to find out why you think it's 'outdated' and not 'necessary'.
To start off with my argument you put the definition of feminism as "The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes". Now let me show you the definition of another group of people looking for equality. "A political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs." now guess what this is defining. Thats right Communism. Its sounds good on paper but that's not what they do. They oppress and murder anyone who doesn"t agree with them. The same thing is happening with Feminism. In the 19th and early 20th century feminism focused on It focused on legal issues, primarily on gaining women's suffrage.
Second wave feminism in the early 1960s focused on sexuality, family, the workplace, reproductive rights, de facto inequalities, and official legal inequalities. Third and fourth wave focused on stereotypes and media portrayals of women. Fast forward to 2015 we have all those things(we might be still working on the fourth wave but that's almost over). Women have equal rights and actualy I say they have more than men. Women are more privileged than man so the fact that modern day Feminism still exist comes off as a joke because it is.
Here are links to why women are more privileged: 1:https://mensresistance.wordpress.com...
For round 2-4 well debate and for round 5 we'll say our closing statements and why we think we were right just so you know
First of all, you compared feminism and communism, two completely different ideologies, saying that 'the same thing is happening with feminism' as communism. I would like to point out that in feminism no one is getting 'oppressed' or 'murdered' for not agreeing, the thing that is happening is woman's rights are being attained. For example, as you mentioned, the fight for the vote in the 19th and 20th century, getting rid of legal inequalities in the 1960s and getting rid of stereotypes till this very day. You also argued that women are actually more privileged than men, using several opinionated sources. These sources said stuff like 'I can produce offspring. A status which grants me an “essential” status in our species that men can never have and which can never be taken away from me even in old age.' This is a load of rubbish, I mean, it takes two people to make a baby, hence the male and female are both 'essential'.
Also, I would like to point out that the vast majority of woman are paid less than men in the same job, some employers won't hire women in case they become pregnant and have to take maternity leave and there are still a large range of stereotypes against women. These are really important problems that need to be sorted out.
Lastly, you said at the start you don't think feminism is necessary. But I implore you to think, without feminism we might not have the vote or some of the other things we see as so normal today. Think, What would the world be like?
"I would like to point out that in feminism no one is getting 'oppressed' or 'murdered' for not agreeing, the thing that is happening is women's rights are being attained."
I"d have to disagree with both parts because Feminist are oppressing men. Because of Feminist men are even less privileged and are being stereotyped as pigs. Women have more leeway when it comes to the law. The fact that a woman can accuse her husband of sexual abuse with no facts and gain custody of her children even though she might not be unequipped to raise her children just shows how much more privileged women are.
"These sources said stuff like 'I can produce offspring. A status which grants me an "essential" status in our species that men can never have and which can never be taken away from me even in old age.' This is a load of rubbish, I mean, it takes two people to make a baby, hence the male and female are both 'essential'."
Even though that is true women and Feminist like to use pregnancy as an argument saying they"re the only ones who can produce offspring so that accusation is not rubbish. Unless you can disprove any of the accusation from those articles my argument for women being more privileged still stands.
"Also, I would like to point out that the vast majority of women are paid less than men in the same job, some employers won't hire women in case they become pregnant and have to take maternity leave and there are still a large range of stereotypes against women. These are really important problems that need to be sorted out."
If you"re talking about the wage gap, it doesn"t exist. Women on average make less because on average more women choose jobs that are part time and don"t pay as much. If women got paid less then why wouldn"t all the Corporations and businesses hire all women to save money? I know there are some stereotypes against women but there are also stereotypes against men. What Feminist like to do is take a problem that includes both women and men and make it a women"s issue when its not.
"Lastly, you said at the start you don't think feminism is necessary. But I implore you to think, without feminism we might not have the vote or some of the other things we see as so normal today. Think, What would the world be like?"
Sorry for not being specific. I"m referring to modern day feminism. I know what first and second wave feminism did and I appreciates that. ^w^
Why women are more privileged and why the wage gap doesn"t exist: https://www.youtube.com...
Female privilege in action: https://www.youtube.com...
Okay, feminism is the act of gaining equality between male and female, not for females to rise above males or vice versa, I understand that males can sometimes be stereotyped as 'pigs' but they are also a wide range of stereotypes against woman, an example being 'women are bad drivers'. So I guess you could say both sides are being oppressed.
You also made a case about women being able to claim custody of a child by accusing the man of sexual assault with no evidence.Legality of child custody has been the same for years and years, long before women were on a more or less equal footing, therefore that whole statement you used if anything shows that sexism still exists. If a couple split up society EXPECTS a woman to take up the responsibility of raising the child. The fact that it is hard for men to get custody etc is more reflective of the fact men basically in general obviously don't want it. Otherwise men in their hundreds of thousands would be demanding 'equal rights', wouldn't they?
For the offspring paragraph, you said 'Even though that is true women and Feminist like to use pregnancy as an argument saying they're the only ones who can produce offspring so that accusation is not rubbish.'. I would like to point out that you have included opinionated sources and infer that feminists still think they are essential, even though this is just one opinion speaking for all feminists.
For your third paragraph, you mentioned 'the pay gap doesn't exist' and provided a YouTube video as evidence. Even if you are right (although I have done some research and I don't think you are, although the figures were highly contradicting), there is still the matter of 'some employers won't hire women in case they become pregnant and have to take maternity leave', which you did not contradict.
The reason feminism as a movement exists is clearly because equality has not yet been reached in much the way that anti racism movements exist even though racism has been clearly reduced and as a society we inherently know racism is wrong. Individuals within that society however may not share that view, as long as racism exist people will fight against in and these people will be classified as a group, as long as sexism exists then people will again oppose it, these people are more commonly known as feminists. However don't worry if the pendulum of the battle of the sexists swings too far he can form his own masculanist society. That is the joy of living in a society where people are afforded all kinds of rights.
Finally, you seem to be under the impression that feminism isn't that important anymore and isn't really an issue. In places like Western Europe, I agree that we have made a lot of progress and the situation is a lot better, but take somewhere like India, Yemen, Nepal etc. and the situation is a lot worse. Just look at the included source for information why.
thegamingjesus forfeited this round.
I have no new points to make at the moment. Since con forfeited I cannot offer any rebbuttals either.
thegamingjesus forfeited this round.
To conclude, I disagree with Con and think feminism is actually necessary and not out-dated because of the points I made earlier.