The Instigator
Ariesx
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
brontoraptor
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is it appropiate to build a muslim religious center near the world trade center

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 458 times Debate No: 87550
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Ariesx

Pro

Round 1-Acceptance, Round 2-Cases, Round 3-Rebuttals, Round 4 Defense
I will be defending the Muslim right to build a religious center near that area.
brontoraptor

Con

I accept this debate with Ariesx, and I thank Ariesx for the opportunity to debate this topic. I will defend the position that it is inappropriate to put a mosque near ground zero.
Debate Round No. 1
Ariesx

Pro

Thank you brontoraptor for accepting this debate.
In this debate, I will be proving that it is definitely appropriate for the Muslim community to build a religious center.
I will first offer the following terms:
Inappropriate-not suitable or proper in the circumstances.
Mosque-a Muslim place of worship.(Muslim Religious Center)
Appropriate-suitable or proper in the circumstances.
Definitions provided by the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Appropriate- I believe that it should not be even a question on whether it is appropriate to build a mosque near the World Trade Center. It has been 15 years since 911 happened. 911 was not caused by the 1.6 billion followers of Islam. One cannot blame 1.6 billion Muslims for an act that was committed by less than 1% of there populations. I will first give examples of what modern day Muslims in America behave like, and whether these Muslims would be seen committing acts of terror.
Examples:
They're better educated than most Americans
U.S. Muslims have the second-highest level of education among major religious groups in the country; Jews have the highest. And a greater proportion of them have college degrees than the general U.S. population.
They have more gender equality

"While in many parts of the Muslim world, women are confined to second-class status, that's not the case among American Muslims. Virtually all of them, 90%, agree that women should be able to work outside the home. American Muslim women hold more college or postgraduate degrees than Muslim men. And they are more likely to work in professional fields than women from most other U.S. religious groups.

They've been here since the birth of the nation ...
Scholars estimate about a quarter to a third of the Africans brought to the United States as slaves were Muslims. Most were then forced to convert to Christianity.

but they're not as dogmatic as they are portrayed
Much has been made about fundamentalist Muslims and their strict interpretation of the Quran. But most American Muslims are different. A Pew religious landscape survey found that 57% of American Muslims say there is more than one way to interpret Islam's teachings. A similar number say many different religions can lead to eternal life.

Muslims also spoken out against it
After every terrorist attack at home and abroad, the refrain rises, "Where is the Muslim condemnation?" American Muslims have spoken out -- and done much more. A Duke University study found more terrorism suspects and perpetrators were brought to the attention of law enforcement by members of the Muslim-American community than were discovered through U.S. government investigations. And a Pew survey found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims say their religious leaders aren't speaking out enough against Islamic extremism." By Holly Yan, CNN
http://www.cnn.com.........

Not only does this article confirm that there is a difference between Muslims in America, and Muslims around the world, but if anything it has shown that this population does not commit acts of terror. It shows that half of U.S Muslims say their religious leaders aren't speaking out enough against Islamic extremism. This is a fact, and it comes from the common Muslim. US Muslims also have a higher level education. What is the probability of a Muslim commiting Jihad, if he has gone through College, and now has a stable job? The point is that American Muslims are different. 57% of American Muslims say that there is more than one way to interpret Islam.

If mu opponent tries to argue that in Islam, the religion publicly advocates for Jihad, my response would be:
Christianity and Judaism have this problem too.

1. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2."This is what the Lord Almighty says... "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."" (1 Samuel 15:3)

3."In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:27) Against Gay People

4. "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

5. "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel." (1 Peter 2:18)

All religions have positive verses and negative verses. I do not believe that churches and synagogues preach this to the people that go there. I do not believe that Christians and Jews take literally what has been listed here. All religions have there faults, but they should still be allowed to worship in religious centers freely.
brontoraptor

Con

I hold Islam to the standards it holds non-Muslims to. I believe the door swings both ways. I believe what is fair is fair. I believe political correctness and pandering towards Islam is a "false morality" and based on a lack of knowledge. If I love my enemy but do not protect my loved ones from my enemy my "love" was an illusion. I didn't want to be seen as a bigot, so protecting my family, which is real love, is cast away to be politically correct.

I prescribe to the words of Ayaan Hirsi Ali(Former Muslim). "I am not anti Islam. Islam is anti me and anti democracy."

Islam does not accept us. It does not accept assimilation. It does not accept democracy.

There are road signs on highways into Mecca, stating that one direction is "Muslims only" while another direction is "obligatory for non-Muslims". Sharia police are stationed beyond the turnoff on the main road to make sure non Muslims do not proceed into Mecca.


Answer: Mecca is a city of importance to Muslims. They have centers of pilgrimage and prayer, sacred places where Muslims are free from the distractions of daily life. This "Trump-like on steroids" ban on non Muslim visitors is mentioned in the Quran.

Quran-

"Oh you who believe! Truly the idolaters are unclean; so let them not, after this year, approach the Sacred Mosque." (9:28).

Isn't that lovely? You and I are unclean. We can deal with it. Sticks and stones right? But now we aren't even allowed into the city of Mecca. Why? We are not Muslims. Period. Bigotry? It would be if Christians or Atheists in the U.S. made such rules. But fair is fair right?

The majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians, while close to a quarter claim no religious affiliation. According to a 2014 study by the Pew Research Center, 70.6% of the American population identified themselves as Christians.

So almost 100% of this nation are Christian or Secular which is the foundation of U.S. culture. People say America is the greatest nation in the world. So what makes it great? It doesn't think like Islam. It doesn't consider the Sharia appropriate. It doesn't have an infallable prophet as its moral example who married a 6 year old Aisha then "thighed" (masterbated) on her. It doesn't advocate cutting off limbs, beheadings, or punishing rape victims. The U.S. has thrived on NOT being like Muhammed who had multiple wives, promoted conquering nonMuslims, and referred to Jews as apes and everyone else as infidels who should be killed. He demanded Muslims to conquer non Muslims. To disagree, is well, not very Muslim. We have a culture. We have the right to preserve that culture. And that culture is a mix of majority Christian and second majority Secular. Christians, Atheists and Agnostics have assimilated together fine. Why? Because they are all influenced by some general since of the same ideologies whether knowingly or unknowingly. In 1940 the U.S. was as near 100% Christian as is reasonably possible. So almost every Atheist, Agnostic, etc was raised up in a Christianized culture. They generally were raised by a Christian or their parents were raised by Christians. This general sense of ideals is Christian in nature whether one practices the religion or not.

Atheist, ask yourself, is marrying a child wrong? I assume you say yes. WE think this way. Islam does not. Do you think stoning, cutting off limbs and beheading are crazy? I assume yes. In Islam this is normal.

Nearly all Muslims in Afghanistan (99%) and most in Iraq (91%) and Pakistan (84%) support sharia law as official law.

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world

32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land."

In Britain, 62% of British Muslims deny free speech, "NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech; Only 3% adopt a “consistently pro-freedom of speech line”

Al Jazeera poll, 81% of respondents approved of ISIS "In a recent survey conducted by AlJazeera.net, the website for the Al Jazeera Arabic television channel, respondents overwhelmingly support the Islamic State terrorist group, with 81% voting “YES”.




This is a Democracy. Majority wins right? The people have spoken.

According to a TIME poll, 61% of respondents oppose the construction of the Park51/Cordoba House project. More than 70% concur with the premise that proceeding with the plan would be an insult to the victims of the attacks on the World Trade Centers.

content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011799,00.html
Debate Round No. 2
Ariesx

Pro

Thank you Con for your response. The main problem I find in you arguments is that they do not do anything to critique what American Muslims believe.

"Islam does not accept us. It does not accept assimilation. It does not accept democracy. "
Does this target American Muslims. 53% of American Muslims say that there is more than one way to interpret Islam.
Quran-
"Oh you who believe! Truly the idolaters are unclean; so let them not, after this year, approach the Sacred Mosque." (9:28).
Con holds a huge double standard for Christianity and Islam. If one agrees with the logic that Con follows, than it is reasonable to deem Christianity unacceptable too.
1. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2."This is what the Lord Almighty says... "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."" (1 Samuel 15:3)

3."In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:27) Against Gay People

4. "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

5. "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel." (1 Peter 2:18)
All of these verses accept slaver, discrimination against gays, and gender inequality. In order for you arguments to be correct. You have to prove that all American Muslims that would be going to this mosque take the Quran literally. My opponent is right to an extent when he says that Islam promotes ideas that are the opposite of what the west believes. But, Christianity does not. Con has to answer this. He has to answer why there is gender inequality in the Bible, 90%, agree that women should be able to work outside the home. Therefore, the impacts that Con argues holds no weight, because it will never be triggered by American Muslims.

My opponent makes a huge analytic about how America is great, because Atheists and Christians made it that way. Now, this is unfair. I am specifically talking about American Muslims which are obviously going to be the Muslims that will visit this mosque. Muslims globally are very different, and have different beliefs compared to American Muslims. That is what I am arguing. Muslims in this country are the second highest educated minority. More than 90% of Muslims believe in gender equality. 53% of Muslims say there is more than one way to interpret the Quran. Even if they take the Quran literally, than they don't act upon the actions that Con has described. Only a few have acted on it. Also, according to my evidence, American Muslims are at the forefront at combating Islamic terrorism. The impact that my opponent argues has little to no weight, because American Muslims do not act on these verses. The same way Christians and Jews do not take female teachers out of the classroom. Con still has yet to address this double standard he holds.

"Atheist, ask yourself, is marrying a child wrong?"
Marrying a child is wrong, but I do not see any American Muslims marrying children. The impact has no weight. Con has not provided evidence supporting the belief that American Muslims do marry children. More than 90% of Muslims believe in gender equality.

"32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land."
The poll you cite also involves Muslims around the world, therefore affecting the Muslims in America data. That also means again that 68% of Muslims do not believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. On balance, this impact does not hold any weight.

"Al Jazeera poll, 81% of respondents approved of ISIS"
Again, this does not impact the beliefs of American Muslims. My opponent has yet to argue against the idea that American Muslims would commit acts he describes is prevalent in Islam.
Here is the data again that proves that American Muslims are significantly more moderate that their global counter parts.

They're better educated than most Americans
U.S. Muslims have the second-highest level of education among major religious groups in the country; Jews have the highest. And a greater proportion of them have college degrees than the general U.S. population.
They have more gender equality

"While in many parts of the Muslim world, women are confined to second-class status, that's not the case among American Muslims. Virtually all of them, 90%, agree that women should be able to work outside the home. American Muslim women hold more college or postgraduate degrees than Muslim men. And they are more likely to work in professional fields than women from most other U.S. religious groups.

They've been here since the birth of the nation ...
Scholars estimate about a quarter to a third of the Africans brought to the United States as slaves were Muslims. Most were then forced to convert to Christianity.

but they're not as dogmatic as they are portrayed
Much has been made about fundamentalist Muslims and their strict interpretation of the Quran. But most American Muslims are different. A Pew religious landscape survey found that 57% of American Muslims say there is more than one way to interpret Islam's teachings. A similar number say many different religions can lead to eternal life.

Muslims also spoken out against it
After every terrorist attack at home and abroad, the refrain rises, "Where is the Muslim condemnation?" American Muslims have spoken out -- and done much more. A Duke University study found more terrorism suspects and perpetrators were brought to the attention of law enforcement by members of the Muslim-American community than were discovered through U.S. government investigations. And a Pew survey found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims say their religious leaders aren't speaking out enough against Islamic extremism." By Holly Yan, CNN
brontoraptor

Con

NonChristians always use the Old Testament to attack Christianity, which is a theological fallacy. The Jewish Testament says "stone adulterers." It says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." It gives a list of unclean animals that are forbidden to eat. Christians follow Jesus for their sense of morality laws. Jesus is the final authority to Christians, not Moses, not the Torah, only Jesus. So what did Jesus say?

Concerning adultery:
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:7)

Concerning eye for an eye:
"You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." (Matthew 5:38)

But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. (Matthew 5:39)

Concerning unclean foods:
Mark 7:18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body."

The New Testament of Jesus Christ is why Christians do not sacrifice live animals, stone adulterers, practice eye for aneye, and eat whatever they feel like eating.

Islam hs no New Testament of Jesus Christ, so guess what?

(Muslims sacrifice live goat)

http://youtu.be...

(Muslims stone adulterer)

https://m.youtube.com...

(Theft in Islam? Cut off the hand.)

http://youtu.be...

"Multiculturalism should not mean that we tolerate another culture"s intolerance. If we do in fact support diversity, women"s rights, and gay rights, then we cannot in good conscience give Islam a free pass on the grounds of multicultural sensitivity."
-Ayaan Hirsi Al, ex-Muslim

"In the real world, equal respect for all cultures doesn't translate into a rich mosaic of colorful and proud peoples interacting peacefully while maintaining a delightful diversity of food and craftwork. It translates into closed pockets of oppression, ignorance, and abuse."
-Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Education does not prevent Muslims from commiting acts of terrorism.

"We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available - the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 - 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans."

http://www.hks.harvard.edu...

The 9/11 hijackers were "assimilated" into American society. They went to strip clubs and drank alcohol which is forbidden in Islam. Ignorant Americans said things like,"I guess they were religious hypocrites." Wanna bet?

Investigation of 9/11

Mueller:
"Mostly, the hijackers blended in to American society, Mueller said.
"They dressed and acted like Americans, shopping and eating at places like Wal-Mart and Pizza Hut," he said.
But they also came armed with sophisticated knowledge about how to exploit our free society."

www.cnn.com/2002/US/09/27/hijackers

I am a Christian who does not condemn homosexuals, nor do I care if Mexicans enter the U.S. looking for a better life, so why do I give Islam no pass? I have studied it for nearly 30 years.

The real Islam. Naziism with a god.

http://youtu.be...

"Europe could sink into chaos from Muslim immigration."

http://youtu.be...

Islam has concepts that allow it to lie to non-Muslims, befriend non-Muslims, deceive non-Muslims, and defy Sharia Law if needed to infiltrate and destroy non-Muslims at all costs, at any cost. When your religion advocates you destroy my culture, lie to my culture, and get sympathy from my culture in order to destroy my culture, you will get zero mosque approval from me.

(Taqiya, tawriya, maruna, and kitman)

http://www.islam-watch.org...

"Although the word Jihad standing by itself means "struggle," what Westerners need to focus on when reading the Hadith regarding Mohammed"s Jihad is similar to the focus needed when reading Mein Kampf (My Struggle) by Adolph Hitler."
-Walid Shoebat, e-Muslim

(Ayaan Hirsi Ali gave a warning to America)

http://www.americanthinker.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Ariesx

Pro

I was hoping for a response to the arguments that still works in rebutting all of your arguments. The main problem with Con is that he has not responded to the fact that American Muslims are different from the global Muslim community.

Defense:
I am free to attack the old testament in an attempt to disprove Christianity, because the Church views the Old Testament has canon. In order for Con to ignore the Old Testament, than he must prove that Jesus and the apostles themselves disapproved of the old testament. The apostles, Jesus, and the overwhelming majority of churches view The Old Testament as canon.
Old Testament Canonicity11.Jesus made reference to the Law and Prophets as a unit, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill," (Matt. 5:17).
Jesus explained the Scriptures, "Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures," (NASB, Luke 24:27).
Jesus referred to the entire Canon by mentioning all the prophets from Abel (from Genesis, the first book and first martyr) to Zechariah (Chronicles, the last book, and the last martyr) (Matt. 23:35).
https://bible.org...
However, even if Con disproves this argument; I still win this debate, because Con has not answered the arguments on American Muslims being different.

American Muslims:
They're better educated than most Americans
U.S. Muslims have the second-highest level of education among major religious groups in the country; Jews have the highest. And a greater proportion of them have college degrees than the general U.S. population.
They have more gender equality

"While in many parts of the Muslim world, women are confined to second-class status, that's not the case among American Muslims. Virtually all of them, 90%, agree that women should be able to work outside the home. American Muslim women hold more college or postgraduate degrees than Muslim men. And they are more likely to work in professional fields than women from most other U.S. religious groups.

They've been here since the birth of the nation ...
Scholars estimate about a quarter to a third of the Africans brought to the United States as slaves were Muslims. Most were then forced to convert to Christianity.

but they're not as dogmatic as they are portrayed
Much has been made about fundamentalist Muslims and their strict interpretation of the Quran. But most American Muslims are different. A Pew religious landscape survey found that 57% of American Muslims say there is more than one way to interpret Islam's teachings. A similar number say many different religions can lead to eternal life.

Muslims also spoken out against it
After every terrorist attack at home and abroad, the refrain rises, "Where is the Muslim condemnation?" American Muslims have spoken out -- and done much more. A Duke University study found more terrorism suspects and perpetrators were brought to the attention of law enforcement by members of the Muslim-American community than were discovered through U.S. government investigations. And a Pew survey found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims say their religious leaders aren't speaking out enough against Islamic extremism." By Holly Yan, CNN

All of these arguments have been dropped by my opponent. I do not need to disprove the arguments made by Pro, because he fails to explain the link between the global Muslim community and American Muslims.
Reasons for winning:
Con dropped all arguments about American Muslim beliefs which made a significant portion of my case.
Con does not explain the link between American Muslim beliefs and global Muslim beliefs.
Con also does not explain the link between the Quran verses, and the effect it has on 2 billion Muslims.
Con does not give any evidence how building a Muslim mosque near the World Trade Center harms anybody.

For all these reasons, Vote Pro.
brontoraptor

Con

The Old Testament said stone adulterers in Levitivus 20:10. Jesus stood against the concept in John 8:7. In Leviticus 11 we see lists of "unclean foods". In Mark 7:19, Jesus stands against the concept. (See Romans 14:14,15). There are seversl OT commands renounced by Christ. Christians don't hold hands with the full rubix cube of Moses' Leviticus commands. They hold Jesus as their final authority. Islam has no New Testament.

-There is a time and a place for all kinds of things. For example, there is nothing wrong with building a museum of Japanese military history in my mind, but would the place for that be Pearl Harbor? No. Inappropriate.

Or how about "God hate f*gs" signs at a funeral? No. Inappropriate.

-----

Why should there be no mosque at Ground Zero specifically? Radical Muslims flew planes into the World Trade Centers in the name of Islam. For a group of Muslims to try to gain from that act by building a mosque on that spot is insensitive, disgusting, and utterly maddening. Not only will many of the family members of the people who died on 9/11 be beyond offended, this "in your face" mosque will provoke massive levels of anger around the U.S. If you spent billions of dollars to promote loathing, hatred, and disgust with Islam, you couldn't do better than building such a mosque.

-----

In past history, Islam has built mosques on historical sites as a sign of conquest specifically. Take the Hagia Sophia in Turkey, the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and the Great Mosque of Cordoba in Spain. In all 3 cases, Muslims built mosques on those spots to send a distinct message, "We conquered you, took your holy site, and now it belongs to Islam." It is no accident.That is the message that building this mosque is supposed to send. In fact, they're naming it Cordoba House just to make sure no one can be confused as to the meaning.

Cordoba is the name of a city in Spain. After the Muslims conquered the Visigoths living there during that time, they took the biggest church in that area and turned it into a mosque as a defined symbol of their conquest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

-----

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim

"Instead we must acknowledge that they are driven by a political ideology, an ideology embedded in Islam itself, in the holy book of the Qur’an as well as the life and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad contained in the hadith.
Let me make my point in the simplest possible terms: Islam is not a religion of peace.
For expressing the idea that Islamic violence is rooted not in social, economic, or political conditions â€" or even in theological error â€" but rather in the foundational texts of Islam itself, I have been denounced as a bigot and an “Islamophobe.â€" I have been silenced, shunned, and shamed. In effect, I have been deemed to be a heretic, not just by Muslims â€" for whom I am already an apostate, sentenced to death â€" but by some Western liberals as well, whose multicultural sensibilities are offended by such “insensitiveâ€" pronouncements ... today, it seems, speaking the truth about Islam is a crime. “Hate speechâ€" is the modern term for heresy. And in the present atmosphere, anything that makes Muslims feel uncomfortable is branded as “hate.â€"

-----

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, exMuslim

"I think I can justly say that I was among the first in my age group of millions of Muslims to admit that our faith, no longer mine, has begotten a bloodthirsty ideology that is determined to destroy the principles of liberty and humanity and basic decency.
Even after 9/11 there are still those who naively believe that it's a threat only in countries like Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The reality as our general (Jack Keane) just laid out, is that it is now a global threat. A recent report by the United Nations Security Council confirmed that more than 100 countries are now supplying recruits to the Islamic State and al-Qaeda, and the United States is one of them."

-The idea of not calling violence committed in the name of Islam by its true name is a really bizarre one to me. Imagine if American and European leaders during the Cold War had gone around calling Communism an ideology of peace or condemning the Baader Meinhof Gang for not being true Marxists. Or what if we had chosen not to call the Nazis "Nazis." I am still trying to put my finger on this philosophy that is outraged when a Christian says something "homophobic", yet is mute when Islam hangs homosexuals in the street under the Sharia, then welcomes this third world minset of bigotry, sexism, and lack of tolerance with welcome arms into a liberal society. I one day decided to stand against Islamic intollerance knowing I would be labeled intollerant. It's a strange day when standing against bigotry makes you a bigot. It's a strange day when Americans must be PC, but American Muslims need not be. There is no full victory, but the battle must be fought nevertheless, thus I stand. But why the distinct anti-mosque stance by me? Because I am a theologically based person. I have studied many religions. Islam is not like other religions. Islam has a social dimension, a religious dimension, and a political dimension. This is not an argument against a group praying, withstaining from pork, or any such thing. This is an argument against the political version of Islam which is set on conquest, islamization, and Sharia over democracy. If only 1 out of 3 Muslims were devout to Islam in this way, that would compose 500+ million adherants, much more than the entire U.S. population and enough people to settle an entire continent. But 1 in 3 was a low ball number. The hidden agenda of political Islam has followers numbering much greater than that, but kitman and muruna hide this reality enough to blind the West, and it's on purpose.

My final point is Feisal Abdul Rauf. He has been the leader of the movement for the mosque. He is a 100% full fledged Islamofascist. Within Islamic arrogance of the infidel bowing to it, he wanted his cake, a piece of pie, some cookies, and anything else unsuspecting Americans would cough up as to not seem racists or bigots. He wanted it dedicated on September 11, of 2011.

In response to the Islamfascist arrogance that tries to use our tollerance and democratic appeal against us, I offer him the preverbial hand jesture including only one finger, and with a grin. He and others who roll around like hogs in jihadi bloodlust and a loathing of freedom will try to toss as much mud at the anti-Islamic movement supporters as possible, but his claim of someone like me being a bigot is met with this response: I do not condemn any other religion. I do not condemn homosexuals, nor do I find myself superior to women. I'm as tolerant a Christian as one will ever find, so to provoke me to intollerance is not a compliment. I meet his clsims of bigotry with a final statement: He is the definition of bigotry and intollerance, and his intollerance will and should be met with intollerance. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali (ex-Muslim)once said,"I am not anti-Islam. Islam is anti me and anti democracy. The day it is not, it ceases to be Islam."

This has been a kitman war on the West and should be met as a political agenda exactly like Communism, Naziism, and Marxism are met with disgust, so should this be.

I thank arien6 for the debate, and respect his position, but I have a different view. Thank you.

Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: SocialDemocrat// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Pro (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: The only arguments con really seemed to have is complaining that Islam is bad. He contradicts himself so many times. It is a democracy but bad bad all Muslims hate Americans. wtf

[*Reason for removal*] The voter fails to explain the decision within the context of specific arguments made in the debate by both debaters, and thus the vote is insufficient.
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Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
My bad, guys. That vote report was posted incorrectly. I'll post the actual report result as soon as I get confirmation from Airmax.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: SocialDemocrat// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Pro (Arguments), 1 point to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Con conceded in the last round. Pro did as well, but it was only a half concession, con literally said "some humans do suck" in the last round.

[*Reason for non-removal*] Votes on conceded debates are not moderated unless the voter votes for the conceding side.
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Posted by brontoraptor 1 year ago
brontoraptor
Our voter must have missed the points that:
#1 the Leader of the mosque movement is a radical Muslim.
#2 other mosques across the world are proven to be "conquest mosques.
#3 they wanted the mosque dedicated on 9/11.

Wtf
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