The Instigator
slave123
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
basils
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Is it ok for a 50 year old man to marry a 9 year old girl???

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
basils
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 864 times Debate No: 69601
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

slave123

Pro

Rules:

Round 1. acceptance only

Round 2. Opening argument

Round 3. Rebuttal

Round 4 Rebuttal

Round 5 Conclusion

Enjoy the Debate inshallah ameen
basils

Con

Ok I accept
Debate Round No. 1
slave123

Pro

JazakAllah for accepting this debate

I begin in the name of Allah swat the Most Gracious the Most Merciful ameen

1. the basis for Morality is divine command,

If God says something is right it is right, ameen

if He says something is wrong it is wrong ameen,

The Moral Code God revealed for us is in the Quran and the Sunah of the Prophet saw,

What ever he (Muhammad Mustafa saw) said and did is right ameen,

now people bring up the argument

if God told you today to kill someone would you do it?

The answer is God doesn't speak anymore,

Muhammad saw was the Last Prophet,

after him there are no more prophets,

so god doesn't speak to anyone anymore ameen,

so if someone heard a voice that God told him to kill someone he is mad ameen,

but Muhammad saw was not mad,

the Quran and History bears record of this,

He was the most honest man in the world,

and the Quran is impossible to immitate, proving it is the word of God ameen,

with all that said,

Muhammad Mustafa saw was in his 50s when he married Aisha ra, who was 6 when they got married,

and 9 when they had sex,

since Morality is derived from Divine Command,

and God told him to marry Aisha ra, it is okay ameen,

also in Islam you can marry when you hit puberty,

it is proven that 9 year olds can hit puberty,

so there is nothing objectively wrong with this ameen,

So if you are an atheist

you can't say this is wrong,

because atheism can't account for objective moral values ameen,

for example who decides what is right or wrong?

the people?

well people decided slavery was right not that long ago, so is it?

people have no authority,

Only God does ameen,

and God said it was okay ameen,

Also the morals atheists have are their own personal subjective feelings,

they can't prove they are objectively real,

atheists call this pedophilia

but what is pedophilia?

According to atheism it is matter reacting upon matter, so how does it matter then?

Also if atheism is right and there is no after life,

then I could rape as many people as I want and get away with it ameen,

because we will all die, and If I was a dictator I could kill and rape and get away with it ameen,

so atheism can't account for justice or morality,

but Islam can ameen

also if you are a Christian,

where in the Bible does it say I can't marry 9 year olds or have sex with them?

Christians only believe in the Bible

We Muslims believe in Quran and Hadith ameen

whatever Quran and Hadith say is true,

and they teach us everything ameen

also it is proven Mary peace be upon her,

was very young also when she married Joseph,

so Christians have no argument against it, neither to atheists,

so it is ok ameen

https://www.youtube.com...
basils

Con

The problem is she is a girl not a woman. Morality aside it makes no sense from a scientific standpoint. If she hasn't yet gone through puberty she is biologically not ready for sex, let alone mentally. A girl of 9 is not capable of making well thought out and planned decisions, and a girl should not be forced to marry someone she does not like. Mentally and Scientifically she is not ready for sex, therefore can not consummate a marriage.
Debate Round No. 2
slave123

Pro

Girl, woman, same thing ameen,

you can call a 24 year old woman girl, so why not a 9 year old?

And scientifically it has been proven that a girl can reach puberty at 9 ameen

http://articles.mercola.com...

if her diet is right she can reach puberty,

and if she lives in the right distance from the equator she can reach puberty at 9 ameen,

and furthermore science can't account for what is right or wrong,

you can't empirically or objectively prove what is right or wrong through science,

science and morality are two different things,

we can't scientifically prove morals ameen,

as I said Morality comes through divine command,

and if God told Muhammad saw to marry a 9 year old girl, he must do it,

just like He told Abraham as to kill his son, he must to it,

the consequence for disobeying God is Hell,

and that is how we know what is right or wrong, heaven and hell ameen,

you can't prove what is halal (allowed) and what is haram (forbidden) through science ameen

so since a girl can reach puberty at 9

and since God say's it is ok to have sex when you reach puberty,

it is ok to have sex with a 9 year old as long as she hid puberty ameen,

and Aisha ra was mentally read for marriage too,

if you read all the hadith she narrated,

she was mature for her age ameen

so it is ok ameen
basils

Con

A 9 year old may start puberty however they will not have finished it. Until they have gone through all 5 stages of puberty they are still not yet an adult, and are still physically not ready for sex.
http://health.howstuffworks.com...

There is also the mental aspect of sex and more so marriage that a girl of nine is is not capable of having. The brain is no where near devolved enough to make a choose that will last longer term.

Also you can't use your religion as evidence as it is all unproven
Debate Round No. 3
slave123

Pro

"A 9 year old may start puberty however they will not have finished it. Until they have gone through all 5 stages of puberty they are still not yet an adult, and are still physically not ready for sex"

Say's who you must pass all 5 stages of puberty to have sex?

Who is making up these rules?

We Muslims believe God makes the rules,

and this is a sound explanation for morality ameen,

And God says we can have sex once we hit puberty, we don't have to pass all 5 stages ameen,

God doesn't say that ameen,

now I bet Con believes that humans make the rules,

but humans are finite creatures,

so how can they decide what is right or wrong,

1400 years ago when this took place,

people were okay with it,

so why should people change their mind and make it not okay now?

physically it is possible to have sex with a 9 year old,

so how is it wrong,

my question is how is it wrong,

you can't prove it scientifically

science can't explain morality ameen

and objectively you can't prove it without God ameen,

so tell me first on what basis and what authority you are condemning this act ameen

"There is also the mental aspect of sex and more so marriage that a girl of nine is is not capable of having. The brain is no where near devolved enough to make a choose that will last longer term."

Well Aisha ra was mentally mature enough to have sex for her age,

Have you recalled how many hadith she narrated?

She was also a top scholar of Islam at an early age,

so she was mature enough to have sex,

her brain must have been much more developed than a 9 year old's today ameen

and may even be fully developed ameen

and again who decides the brain has to be fully developed to have sex?

Who is making these rules?

People?

People said slavery was okay not that long ago, now they change their minds,

so that is culturally relative, and therefore still relative,

we need a universal mechanism for morality, and that is God, ameen

God decides what is right and wrong,

and the moral code he gave us is in Quran and Sunnah,

so we know what is right or wrong based on Quran and Sunnah

not on personal feelings,

personal feelings are subjective,

therefore you can't prove what is morally right or wrong based on personal feelings alone ameen,

take any philosophy coarse,

they won't be able to prove what is right or wrong, without divine revelation ameen

so the last point Con made,

"Also you can't use your religion as evidence as it is all unproven"

Religion is the only evidence we have for morality,

without God and a last day,

pedophilia, murder, rape, etc is just matter, and it wouldn't matter,

we could do as much pedophilia, murder, and rape as we want and still end up no where when we die ameen,

so there is no justice and morality without God ameen,

and whether or not God is proven is a separate debate ameen,

but who again says I can't use religion in this debate?

you Con?

Well those are your subjective feelings, again self delusions,

you can't prove objectively what you feel is the objective truth ameen,

and God does exist, and He provides us with Moral codes and ethics, ameen

so we have to obey Him ameen,

and Islam is proven to be the true religion ameen,

since it is the only rational religion and world view, ameen

all other worldview are irrational

such as Christianity because it believe 3=1

and atheism which can't account for objective moral values, and can't account for the origin of the universe, ameen

and hinduism, which teaches everything is God, but where are our divine powers

and the same with all other religions, ameen

Islam alone is rational,

therefore we must accept Islam

and the Moral Code given to us in the Quran and Sunnah

that is the only way we can account for objective moral values ameen

Alhumdulillah ameen
basils

Con

Science doesn't make rules, science is a group of facts. A child devolved enough mentally to get married. In fact studies show that the part of your brain that helps make long term decisions isn't fully developed until age 25
http://www.bbc.com...

Also sex is generally for reproducing and the body isn't fully ready until around age 16.

Taking morality out of the equation, scientifically you shouldn't get married until age 25.

Your religion is not superior to science good sir.
Debate Round No. 4
slave123

Pro

"Science doesn't make rules, science is a group of facts. A child devolved enough mentally to get married. In fact studies show that the part of your brain that helps make long term decisions isn't fully developed until age 25"

But Aisha ra was mentally ready for her age,

have you read how many hadith she narrated?

and your studies are always changing

How can you say the brain isn't fully developed until 25?

How do you know Aisha ra's brain wasn't fully developed at age 9?

and there are plenty of people who get married and have sex before 25, so even if the brain fully develops at 25, why do people have sex before that?

People in US for example have sex in highschool and even middle school, and they are not 25,

so how is it wrong to have sex at 9 if you hit puberty?

People have sex all the time in US when they hit puberty,

so why can't a 50 year old man have sex with a 9 year old who reached puberty 1400 years ago,

"Also sex is generally for reproducing and the body isn't fully ready until around age 16."

So what? I know people who have sex at the age of 14?

Is that wrong?

In Islam you can marry as soon as you hit puberty,

Who said your body has to be fully developed to get married?

Who said?

Science?

Science can't tell us what to do,

Science can't tell us what is right or wrong morally, ameen

science is also always changing,

these studies can change,

Science originally said the earth was flat, now it say's it is round,

science can't make up it's mind ameen,

science is not a source for morality ameen

"Taking morality out of the equation, scientifically you shouldn't get married until age 25."

Well scientifically and historically and absolutely people do get married before 25,

My grandmother got married at 16

a lot of people get married at 18 ameen

a lot of people get married before 25, so how can you say scientifically you have to be 25 to get married,

no one follows this law you made up,

it is not a law at all,

and it is certainly not a moral law either,

so again who is telling you 25 is the age to get married in?

"Your religion is not superior to science good sir"

Islam is light years ahead of our current science sir,

and will always be lightyears ahead of science ameen

The Quran talks about the Big bang (21:30) 1400 years before your science did ameen

it talks about extraterrestrial life 1400 years before your science did (42:29)

and it talks about black holes, embryology, dark matter, the speed of light, and so much more 1400 years before your science did ameen,

and your science is always changing,

yesterday your science said the earth was flat, now it says the earth is round, ameen,

which is it?

Science is always changing,

one day science says this is bad for you,

the next it will say, that is good for you,

your science can't make up it's mind, it is limited ameen

Our Religion, Islam on the other hand isn't

Islam is a religion revealed from Allah, The Creator of the heavens and the earth Himself ameen,

so it is 100% right,

we can have 100% faith in Islam that it is right

but we can't do the same with science since it is always changing ameen

the Truth can never change ameen

also I asked Con repeatedly Who decides what is right and wrong,

Con has not answered this question,

I proved that God decides what is right and wrong,

and there is no alternative to morality and objective moral values and justice, without Divine Revelation,

Con ignores my arguments,

and insists science is the way to determine what is right or wrong,

when science is always changing, ameen,

so in relation to this debate,

Con says we should scientifically get married at 25,

but people marry all the time earlier then that,

not many people seem to follow the laws and rules and moral conduct given to us by Con's so called science ameen,

but people follow sharia,

and people 1400 years ago did marry at 9

and 50 year olds did marry 9 year olds,

Islam says that is okay as long as they are both past puberty,

Islam is best and Islam has all the answers we need ameen,

and I proved Islam is the best method for knowing what is right and wrong ameen,

So in conclusion

I would say it is okay for a 50 year old man to marry a 9 year old girl 1400 years ago, as long as they are both past puberty ameen,

there is nothing wrong about it ameen,

so vote Pro inshallah ameen,

and accept Islam too inshallah ameen

more importantly accept Islam inshallah

because only then will you go to heaven ameen

Alhumdulillah ameen

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com...

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

http://www.answering-christianity.com...

Alhumdulillah ameen
basils

Con

1. Your religion is not something you can use for your argument. You have no proof your religion is true and therefore you are basing your concept of morality on a book wrote well over a 1000 years ago.

2. Science is fact, morality is subjective. In my culture it is considered a crime to have sex with a 9 year old but I did not bring it up as it is subjective. Scientifically a 9 year old is not ready for sex let alone marriage both physically and mentally.

Well I guess that is it.
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Midnight1131 2 years ago
Midnight1131
Pro fails to take into account that not everyone gets their morals from a 2000 year old book.
Posted by RXR 2 years ago
RXR
@nomagic

Muhammed never raped her. Where do you get your info from ? And by the way unfair voting
Posted by slave123 2 years ago
slave123
I feel this debate was voted for unfairly,

I proved that science can't determine what is right and wrong morally,

Only Revelation can,

you atheists are such cowards ameen
Posted by slave123 2 years ago
slave123
from a biological perspective you can't prove what is right or wrong, it is just matter and matter,

so it doesn't matter,

my question is how is it objectively wrong ameen
Posted by slave123 2 years ago
slave123
by the way I am not trying to legalize it,

my question is not if it is legal,

my question is, is it morally ok,

is it morally right or wrong,

please consider that in the question when you vote on this debate inshallah ameen
Posted by slave123 2 years ago
slave123
But Islam says once a person hits puberty they are ready to marry,

your opinion is your opinion,

you cannot objectively prove it, without Divine Revelation ameen,

but since Muhammad saw was the last prophet,

you can't receive Divine Revelation,

and since Muhammad saw received divine revelation,

we have to follow it ameen,

What Islam says is true, is true,

what people say is true is their own personal opinion and can't be proven to be objectively true ameen
Posted by Debatingqueen101 2 years ago
Debatingqueen101
I don't think it would be right to let a 9 year old CHILD marry a 50 year old adult. This child has barely even left elementary school and would not be fully developed (mentally, emotionally, and physical) for the stress of a marriage. That would also take away from her childhood, she would never have a regular childhood if she had to worry about a 50 year old husband. This topic has been argued before and as you can see its getting nowhere so good luck to you if you are trying to get this legalized.
Posted by cannotseethehaters 2 years ago
cannotseethehaters
If you are in the united states and are looking to do this, you won't get far at all. Unfortunately something called the law exists, preventing you from marrying a 9 year old. Also you would be charged with statutory rape if you had sexual intercourse with her.
Posted by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
I'm an atheist and can account for objective moral means. It is the theist who cannot account for objective moral means. For the theist, might makes right. Whatever god says is good. The theist doesn't have a moral system. The theist just does what they are told. That isn't morality, that is obedience.
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
If someone is talking about Muhammad marrying Aisha, she was six or seven. She didn't live with him until she was nineish.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
slave123basilsTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con makes a solid biological argument the raping a 9 year old girl, by a 50 year old man is wrong from a biological maturity perspective. Pro wish to counter this argument with religious justification for rape. Since religions aren't true and aren't concerned with truth, anyone can make up a religion. If anyone can make up a religion, that anyone can make up a religion to justify anything. As we see with the rape of a young girl, slavery, bags for clothes, ext. Therefore religion isn't solid justification for rape, since it has no foundation in truth. Con's factual, biological argument is on stronger footing than any religious argument.