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The Contender
Con (against)
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Is it sinful for Christians to listen to secular music?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/26/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 433 times Debate No: 79089
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)




Secular music is to be defined as music that is not in direct worship to Jesus Christ. The bible says (1 John 2:15-17) that we as Christians are not to be part of the world and secular music is in turn part of the world; therefore sinful.


Let's define a few thing for a minute:
listen to: "Give one"s attention to a sound:" [1]

This is the full text of 1 John 2:15-17, as the pro has cited:

"15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world"the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life"comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever." [2]

The definition of love, as defined by the same source, is "An intense feeling of deep affection:" [3].

While it is true that the Bible does not allow us to support the whims of this world, I think the Bible is talking primarily about the lusts men and women have over things/other people, in particular because that word is used in the text. Likewise, I don't think secular music lies along the secret lusts people have (eg. pornography). True, it's something that comes from the world, but it's something we-- as defined-- ""Give one"s attention to a sound", rather than give an "An intense feeling of deep affection" toward. Unless you're a music writer, I don't think one would constantly want to listen to any kind of music with that level of a burning passion.

Ultimately, For the pro to win this debate, he must prove that secular music lies along the same level as lusts like pornography, and that at pursue secular music in an insane burning passion that qualifies as "An intense feeling of deep affection".
Debate Round No. 1


OK, i can easily prove that secular music is lusts of many kinds. I will prove this to you by the lyrics of the songs and why people burn with lust for the lyrics of the songs. btw, profanities must be censored in order to post this.

1.pop genre

Beyonce-Drunk In Love

...We woke up in the kitchen saying,
"How the h*ll did this sh*t happen?"
Oh baby, drunk in love we be all night
Last thing I remember is our beautiful bodies grinding up in the club
Drunk in love..."

This song is literally glorifying alcohol abuse, and having inappropriate sexual encounters.

2. rap genre

+Kanye West-Get Em High

...Now, thr-thr-throw your motherf**king hands (Get 'em high!)
All the girls pass the weed to your motherf**king man (Get 'em high!)
Now I ain't never tell you to put down your hands (Keep 'em high!)
And if ya losing yo' high than smoke again (Keep 'em high!)..."

This song encourages drug abuse. The bible says in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (16. Don"t you know that you yourselves are God"s temple and that God"s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17. If anyone destroys God"s temple, God will destroy that person; for God"s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.) Getting high destroys your body aka God's temple.

+N.W.A-F**k tha Police (the beginning of modern day rap, probably the most relevant considering the new movie.)

...F**k tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young ni*ga got it bad 'cause I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

F**k that sh*t, 'cause I ain't tha one
For a punk muthaf**ka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell...

despite the perverse foul language, This song, the whole album encourages disobedience to the law and members of authority. The bible clearly says in Romans 13:1-2 (Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.) this song is encouraging rebellion against authority and therefore against God.

3. modern rock and roll

ONE REPUBLIC- Counting Stars

...And I I I I feel something so right by doing the wrong thing
And I I I I feel something so wrong by doing the right thing
I could lie, couldn't I, couldn't I?
Every thing that kills me makes me feel alive.

And here's what the bible says about this, James 4:17 ( If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn"t do it, it is sin for them.) This song encourages you to do the wrong thing.

4. one more after this, classic rock and roll

Rolling Stones-Sympathy For The Devil (seriously the name of the song speaks for itself)

...Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name...

his name is Satan/Lucifer in case you haven't guessed it. I don't know much more you can worship the devil than to glorify his deeds

5. finally, metal genre

IRON MAIDEN-The Number Of The Beast (the title of the song should be a dead givaway)

...This can't go on I must inform the law
Can this still be real or just some crazy dream
But I feel drawn towards the evil chanting hordes
They seem to mesmerism me ... can't avoid their eyes
666 the number of the beast
666 the one for you and me

I'm coming back I will return
And I'll possess your body and I'll make you burn
I have the fire I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take it's course

in this song, the artist is trying to awaken the desires of the devil into the heart of the listener.

In conclusion, I chose songs that were very popular during the time that they were released from artists that are still popular today. The reason these songs are sinful to listen to is the message that they give to the listener, disobedience to God. The entire argument wraps up to one single verse 2 Timothy 3:1-5 (You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. 2 For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3 They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4 They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!). The reason people are attracted to this music is because it awakens the evil desires in their heart that influence them to do wrong, which in turn is sinful. If Jesus really is your virtue, you should stay away from sinful influences just like the scripture says.


I will refute the pro's arguments in a couple fronts: 1) the general presentation of the pro's songs, 2) the pro's songs 3) My songs, 4)Violation of BOP

First, let me make this clear: this is not a Christian vs. Athiest debate, given I'm a Christian, too. Let's not get too carried away in this debate, shall we?
1) General presentation of pro's songs

First, the pro selected his songs on the premise that they were popular. However, he has not put up evidence that they were popular (eg. statistics). Even if they were made by famous songwriters, keep in mind not all songs are "popular."

Second, these songs don't overall represent what our media is all about, ie. it's not all about sex. If that were the case, we would not give two excrements about anything that happens in the real world, and we would be constantly blasting media that says "SEX SEX SEX!" But that is NOT happening. True, it's a thing. But we care just as much about real world issues. The mere presence of news channels like CBS, NBC all prove this is so. Thus, the pro's songs don't represent all of secular music.
2) The individual songs presented by the pro

First,Drunk in Love". This song isn't all success. It sparked controversy, In particular, over referencing domestic violence against women, in the lines "I'm Ike, Turner, turn up / Baby no I don't play / Now eat the cake, Anna Mae / I said eat the cake, Anna Mae",

Here's a review detailing that:
And another:
And another:
Need I go on?

Moreover, while it may have gotten various kinds of acolades, it's not popular now, given it's not in the Billboard's top 100. ";

Next: Get 'em High"
While it's true it was successfull, like "Drunk with Love", it's also not in the top 100. Moreover, it's not the song that was successfull, it's the entire ALBUM that was successfull. [] An individual song's popularity =/= its album's popularity.

Next: F**K the police. First, this song isn't encouraging rebellion against authority, it's criticizing the racism that's held against African americans, and the chronic abuse some police officers put on African Americans. "Young ni_ga got it bad cause I'm brown/ And not the other color so plice think / They have the authority to kill a minority." Want proof this is true in real life? FERGUSON. Even if it has a chunk load of curses, it is partially justified considering 1) the police's chronic discirmination against African Americans, b) curses are an embodiment of rap music. I don't think this is a rebellion against God. It's a rebellion against a serious issue in our world: racism.

Last remark on this song.: The very fact songwriters like Kanye West have written about issues like racism shows us that sex doesn't represent our society, and suggests that we should not let statistics mislead us into what "popular" music is. (More on that in my own examples of music)

Next: Counting Stars. First, the song uses terms like "good" and "right" and "wrong", but these terms are what humans have for other humans. The "right" and "wrong" defined by the bible is what GOD defines as right and wrong. James can't be applied here.

Last: Sympathy for the Devil
First, there is no evidence this is popular. I don't go around and see people openly saying "HAIL SATAN!" through this song. And true, this song is saying "hail satan." But you can't label all of secular music on ONE SONG.

Last point: the pro has focused on songs that were made within the last 10 years. But that's not the limit of secular. This is "Secular": of, relating to, or controlled by the government rather than by the church []. This is ANY SONG THAT DOESN'T OPENLY SAY "God is good." These songs hardly represent as a whole what secular music is about, it envelops a variety of music. Thus:

3) My own examples of music:

Here are other examples of secular music, which aren't sin.

Category 1: Hip Hop
"See You Again"--Wiz Kalifa

Damn, who knew?
All the planes we flew
Good things we've been through
That I'll be standing right here talking to you
'Bout another path
I know we loved to hit the road and laugh
But something told me that it wouldn't last
Had to switch up
Look at things different, see the bigger picture
Those were the days
Hard work forever pays
Now I see you in a better place (see you in a better place) []

"See You Again", as you all have probably heard, was a song made directly because of the death of actor Paul Walker, is in the top 100 on Billboard's Top 100 list, in particular #13. [] This song is praising what it means to have family and comrade-ship, attributes which are not only allowed under Christianity, but is encouraged.

Category 2: Classical Music.
As I said before, not all secular music is hip/hop, rock/roll, etc. there's an even larger portion, which includes classical music. Now, many of you may be thinking "wtf?! classical music? where did you dig up that old fossil?" Keep in mind, the millenials do not own this world. We share this world with an even larger, older population, who grew up with this kind of music. Thus, allow me to introduce you to the outside world of "secular" music.
Song: Ode to Joy (Ludwig Van Beethoven). This is a song I bet money you know, and is a classic of classics. So classic it was added to the United Nations Memory of the World Programme, the first of its kind. ( may get an Academy Award for "Drunk", but an Academy Award is insignificant next to the power of time. Moreover, does it say "HAIL SATAN?" Not even close! Here is an excerpt of the song's lyrical portion:

"Do you come crashing down, you millions?

Do you sense the Creators presence, world?
Seek Him above the starry firmament,
For above the stars he surely dwells."

After a large portion of orchestra, mentioning nothing about God, we come accross this brief stanza, which references and praises God, the exact opposite of those individual, insigificant songs the pro showed us.
Category 3: Jazz
Allow me to introduce to you Miles Davis' " Milestones". An ordinary song, and one of the pillars of jazz, which is another very popular category of secular music. Is it cursing God? No! In fact, there are no lyrics!

Voters, the songs I have proposed should outweigh the pro's songs. Those songs as I have said in my first major point, do not reflect what secular music is.
In fact, all songs proposed in this round cannot represent entirely what secular music is. It's simply way too big of a category-- it envelops anything which doesn't directly say "God good." That includes pop, classical, jazz, you name it. Thus, this song debate should altogether be cut.

4) Final Point: Violation of BOP
The pro has not proved secular music = lust which in my first speech I said lined with "an intense feeling of deep affection". He has merely claimed the songs are SYMBOLS of lusting. Sure, Beyonce's song says "our beautiful bodies grinding up in the club", but IS THOSE WORDS THE PHYSICAL ACT OF MASTURBATION? No, it's not. He has missed the entire point of this debate by going for specific examples of secular music that don't envelope the entire category,vote con.

Debate Round No. 2


jbradshaw95 forfeited this round.


Forfeiture, vote con. Good debate though.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by frankabe 1 year ago
Not sure how you got your argument from that verse: "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world"the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life"comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever."
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round, so conduct to Con