The Instigator
coolmikeb
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
Thaddeus
Con (against)
Winning
61 Points

Is murder a crime

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/10/2011 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,901 times Debate No: 16984
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (12)

 

coolmikeb

Pro

I say that murder is a crime. The definition of murder as to me is a murder in which a killing is involved. I would like the con to make the first move to start out this debate.
Thaddeus

Con

I would like to thank pro for instigating this debate. I hope it will interesting.
I would firstly like to contend his definition;

"murder as to me is a murder in which a killing is involved."

I believe this definition is unacceptable because he uses the word "murder" in order to define murder. I would ask that we replace the word "murder" in his definition with "an act" leaving us with:

Murder; An act in which killing is involved

Now for my own definitions;
Crime; the breach of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction. [http://en.wikipedia.org...]

If possible may we keep the discussion related to law in the US, however, I am willing to look at other nation's legal systems if pro desires.

Killing; the act of causing the death of a living organism.

For murder to be a crime, every instance of murder must be a crime. The following play illustrates this;

Criminal appetites - by Thaddeus River

[A man is stuck in a cellar with a zombie. The zombie rushes at the man]

Man: Arghhh! [Enthusiastically]
Zombie: Braaaaaaaains

[The zombie grabs the man and is about to start chewing on his head]

[enter Law-man]

[All turn to look at law-man]

Man:Wuh?
Zombie: [Disgruntled] Good heavens! How did you get in my cellar? This cellar is 10 meters below the ground! Also you are trespassing.
LM: Ha! [Laughes] The state cares not for your petty distinctions of property and concrete! Now unhand that man!
Zombie: Why should I? This fiend entered my house, killed my compatriots in violent and humiliating ways with comically absurd and impractical weapons, and then tried to kill me. Besides I only wanted to eat his brains. I'm not unreasonable. No-ones going to eat his eyes. And eating isn't a crime.
LM: True! Eating is not a crime! But killing that man is!
Zombie: Are we going to ignore the fact that he started it, on my property?
LM: Of course! You're a zombie! Zombies don't have rights! Especially not one's protected by the state! Peace be upon it!
Zombie: [Wearily resigning himself to an annoying lecture from a man in pink spandex] Must you put an exclamation at the end of every sentence?
LM: Shut the hell up!

[Pauses, and turns to face the audience]

LM: You see, this zombie correctly stated that eating is not a crime! He is right!
Zombie: That's a very redundant choice of words. You said I stated something correctly and then that I was righ...
LM:[Interrupting] You see, though eating is not a crime in and of itself, some forms of eating can be! Such as attempting eat someone's brains! This is because it is the damage to the brain element of the eating which is the crime!
Zombie: Who the bloody hell wears pink spandex?
LM: My mother says I'm sexy! Therefore it would be wrong to classify eating as a crime, but rather purposefully causing harm to someones brain is!
Zombie: But he was on my property... Trying to kill me!
Man:[Sheepishly] Its true...
LM: Screw the property! I have rules! Dead people can't have property! All this is res derilicta! And Therefore Mine!
Man: Don't you feel all these political gags are a little forced?
LM: Screw you! And remember governments are the ones who have the right to tell you what to do!

[exit Lawman through the ceiling, chased by a bear]

Zombie: Well that was a bizarre and long winded way of explaining why if acts can sometimes be crimes, it is because of a certain component of that act, and therefore is innacurate to describe the act itself as a crime. And we didn't even touch on why if the government does these things it is still fine. [Sighing] I've lost my appetite. Fancy a game of chess?
Man: Sure!

The end

Anyhoo, as demonstrated if there scenarios in which the act commited is not crime, then it is not the act itself which is the crime. Hence, as I can come up with circumstances in which murder is not a crime, as per definitions given, I will have proven the resolution false.

a) The death penalty in certain states.
b) Wars.
c) Da fuzz killing non-white people.
(a,b and c can all be sumarized as murder is cool if the state does it)
d) Killing of chickens for KFC. This meets the given definition of killing, and therefore meets the given definition of murder. This is an example of very righteous murder.
e) Justin Bieber. Seriously, who is going to press charges if you whack him? Murlocks? Lol

Resolution negated. Like a boss.
Debate Round No. 1
coolmikeb

Pro

thank you for the good exzample of not murder. But forsay that someone is killed beacsue the killer is that that his mother died of old age. Should this be called a rime. I belive that this is a crime and forso that the killer should be accused of crime. For so tyhat the killer has made a huge mistake and shall pay the price. I am for death peantly,Thus shall state why muder is a crime
Thaddeus

Con

Dreadfully sorry old chap. I haven't the foggiest what you are trying to say.

"But forsay"
Thats not a word but do continue.

"that someone is killed beacsue the killer is that that his mother died of old age."
Oh jolly good you have continued. But I say! Whats the killers mother got to do with it? Or old age? I am frightfully confused old bean.

"Should this be called a rime."
My good fellow, rime is frozen water droplets on the surface of objects. It would be most irregular to call a killers mother dying of old age a rime.

"I belive that this is a crime and forso that the killer should be accused of crime."
I say, it sounds jolly careless to lose one's mother to old age, but calling it a crime sounds a bit unsporting. Just not cricket really. You see the individual in question did have dash all to do with it.

"For so tyhat the killer has made a huge mistake and shall pay the price."
He has? Is something I'm missing here? Did he lock her in cellar and then wait for her to die of old age? Seems mildly odd to say the least.

"I am for death peantly"
I thought murder was a crime according to you?

"Thus shall state why muder is a crime"
Oh, jolly good. I await your arguments eagerly

"..."
Take your time.

"..."
Have you got the right notes there?

"..."
Hello?

"..."
Blast and confound it. He appears to have done a runner. This is the last time I debate some one sitting on a toilet which has a window to escape from.
Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by samiam96 3 years ago
samiam96
Con won, like a boss
Posted by Thaddeus 3 years ago
Thaddeus
Please note; any political allagories taken from the play would be very weak, as I got confused half-way through about which characters would be straw-men and what wouldn't be.
Posted by BlackVoid 3 years ago
BlackVoid
Run semantics off "a"
Posted by Deathbeforedishonour 3 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
The definition is flawed.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: countering the idiot. Sorry for spamming ya thaddeus, qopel is on a rampage of votebombing right now
Vote Placed by Subutai 1 year ago
Subutai
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Stop it qopel.
Vote Placed by qopel 1 year ago
qopel
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: CVB
Vote Placed by darnocs1 3 years ago
darnocs1
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con obviously won. Superior arguments, and based on a poor definition of murder provided by Pro, it was obvious that not all killing is a crime.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 3 years ago
Man-is-good
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's case was incoherent and marred by his poor grammar and spelling. Thaddeus however make a valid argument, though his conduct was lacking, but wondrously humorous....I award the conduct point to Pro though...
Vote Placed by Spartan 3 years ago
Spartan
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con fabricated a source, and Pro did not include a space between his comma and this therefore its a landslide to con.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: A waste of time. Pro made no case and was incoherent. I do like Pro's ferris wheel icon, however.
Vote Placed by Double_R 3 years ago
Double_R
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not make an argument. Spelling and grammar mistakes are obvious. Next time I would advise Pro to utilize the spell check.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 3 years ago
Ore_Ele
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Nicely done, kept me laughing the whole time.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
coolmikebThaddeusTied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Like a boss, this debate should give Thaddeus two wins.