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Is pop music making our country less creative?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,905 times Debate No: 29179
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (2)
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I wish my opponent luck with this debate.

I believe that pop music, (Rap, Hip-hop, Pop, ect.) is making our country Dumber, and dumber. I do not consider pop music an art form, because it would take no time to produce such a thing at all. And if you read anything about musical theory you can see that pop music is nowhere near the creativity level of many older artists.
Pop music is nothing more than cheaply produced electronic noise.
I will show you and example of some lyrics for a randomly selected pop song and a randomly selected song of my choosing.
"Hi, my name is Marcus and I'm a popaholic
(Pop, pop, pop music)
(Pop, pop, pop music)
(Pop, pop, pop music)
C'mon (pop, pop, pop music) get on the dance floor
Talk about (pop, pop, pop music) talk about, talk about
Talk about (pop, pop, pop music) talk about (uh-huh)
Talk about (pop, pop, pop music) talk about
(I really like this)
Talk about (pop, pop, pop music) talk about
Here we go
I like that song Candy (uh-huh)
I want some more Mandy
(She's so hot)
I dance to the Jackson Five
And even the Partridge Family
(Yeah man)
I try to go to all the shows
I run up to the front row
(Sir, get back to your seat right now)
I buy all the trading cards
And even the pop star dolls
(Give me that, that's mine)"

"Come as you are, as you were
As I want you to be
As a friend, as a friend
As an old enemy
Take your time, hurry up
The choice is yours, don't be late
Take a rest as a friend
As an old
Memoria, memoria
Memoria, memoria
Come doused in mud, soaked in bleach
As I want you to be
As a trend, as a friend
As an old
Memoria, memoria
Memoria, memoria
And I swear that I don't have a gun
No I don't have a gun
No I don't have a gun"

I've also got quotes from one of our online friends,
"Well, of course it depends on the music and the musicians. Still, it takes me so many weeks to finish albums. I usually produce them and am often involved in the writing so it may feel a bit longer to me. But I tend to spend a whole lot of time in my projects. Maybe 500 hrs or so." (20.8 days)

And another!
"Usually it takes a few months - 2/3 months. Depends on their approach. I mean, CCR released 3 albums in 1969 (Bayou Country, Green River & Willy and The Poor Boys)... so right there is proof that you can do it quicker than a year. Many other bands have taken much longer than a year, although that doesn't mean they've been recording in a studio for more than a year.
Some artists, like Bruce Springsteen and Neil Young spent almost a year working on an album, completed it, and then discarded it completely only to restart again from scratch. I would say this counts towards the time that it takes to finally record the album that the artist feels is ready for release.
Then you get other guys like Ryan Adams who release albums at an alarming speed but with very little relevant or even good content."

This sums up my argument. thank you.


Gladly accepting this challenge! I also wish you luck.

I will begin by stating my case and will then reply to specific points in my opponent's case.

My opponent did not define "our country", already a terrible error seeing as "our country" can be Madagascar or Iceland for all we we know. However, I will interpret this as the United States of America only because I live there.

Seeing as my opponent has defined the pop genre as rap, hip-hop, and the like, I will accept this definition. I will also assume that my opponent refers to pop music as a whole, spanning across decades.

Firstly, pop music does not make our country less creative because pop music is, in and of itself, any type of popular music genre and there are many different types of pop music. The examples of lyrics my opponent provided of pop music are very stereotypical and thus do not encompass the genre as a whole.

There are many ways that pop music has made our country smarter and more creative. Many forms of pop music, more specifically rap, have been used in classrooms to help teach students concepts or to help them remember it. A good example of this is the entire series of School House Rock, which includes a jazzy type of popular music. That entire series is aimed at teaching younger students about grammar, mathematics, history, and politics with music. Another example is the series Animaniacs, which also uses childish pop music to teach lessons to children.

Going back to rap, that form of pop is often used in classrooms to help teach students. Music can be very effective in teaching students, and no matter the genre, they help if the lyrics are meaningful. Students even compose their own rap songs with information on a subject for projects.

As stated in the thesis of Edward Anderson's study on the positive use of rap music in the classroom:

"Some of the ways rap can be used in the classroom include: (1) select, play, listen to and view, and discuss the contents or messages of rap music with a positive message; (2) have students write and present raps about aspects of particular classroom lessons; (3) create rap lecture notes on history and science; and (4) see how raps are used effectively in television or radio commercials. "

I do not see how this can be uncreative in any way.

My opponent has stated the following:

"I do not consider pop music an art form, because it would take no time to produce such a thing at all."

They also showed a few quotes on the matter. Unless my opponent can clearly state what the correlation between art and production time, this argument is invalid. I can write a poem in a few minutes and it is art just as I can write that same poem in days or weeks or years, it will still be art.

Because my opponent failed to even define art, shall do it.

"art: the quality, production, eexpression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance."

Because any type of music, even pop, is appealing/beautiful, has extraordinary significance, and could be interpreted in different ways, it is an art. The amount of time put into the production is irrelevant.

My opponent also states:

"And if you read anything about musical theory you can see that pop music is nowhere near the creativity level of many older artists."

A very vague statement. What specific part of musical theory are you referring to? Also, how exactly does the year an artist was born/made music in effect their level of creativity? Finally, how exactly are you measuring "creativity level"?

This is just about all I have to say for now, I think. I look forward to my opponent's rebuttal!


Debate Round No. 1


I wasn't aware that we were supposed to say what country in particular considering you and I are American.
And I do not believe because pop music is "Popular" it is a good outlet for them,
But I have to point out the fact that the lyrics aren't always helpful sometimes they are de-constructive to society,
Other than childish pop warded at drawing the attention of five or six year olds,
What positive message can one drag out of the pop culture?
You can't. Going on the topic of rap, it tells our children and society that it's cool to be a gang banger who shoots his gun into random houses. (Not literally speaking, Hope not anyways)
It tells us criminal activity is alright, when we people in the real world know that it is not.
It's a leech that takes from society, and it puts us through the same metaphorical cookie cutter.

In this blog by the smithsonian magazine
Allow me to outline the important
"Joan Serr", a postdoctoral scholar at the Artificial Intelligence Research Institute of the Spanish National Research Council in Barcelona, and his colleagues examined three aspects of those songs: timbre (which "accounts for the sound color, texture, or tone quality," according to Serr" and his colleagues); pitch (which "roughly corresponds to the harmonic content of the piece, including its chords, melody, and tonal arrangements"); and loudness."

"timbral variety went down. That means that songs are becoming more and more homogeneous. In other words, all pop music sounds the same now."

And I do not believe you can measure someone until they have been pushed to their limit, I do not think pop artists are at their limit or exceeding it.
And older artist are more experienced, and therefore much better at expressing themselves.
And I'll quote your definition of art, "Of more than ordinary significance" pop music is not of higher significance.

I look forward to hearing your reply. Thank you. :)


Considering many people from different countries are on this website, they could just as easily accepted your challenge. I am only saying that you should be more specific as to what country you're referring to.

Pop is short for popular music. I was not saying that popular music is necessarily good music, but that pop can refer to many different types of music such as pop rock, hip-hop, etc. because those types of music are considered "popular" because of their significance and use of different styles of music.

Rap does not tell children to be gangsters, neither literally or figuratively. That in and of itself is a huge generalization, because there are different rap songs and many of them can be positive as well as negative. In fact, since you referred to the "real world", many rap songs have "real world themes in them that, while not appropriate for younger audiences, do illustrate the harsh realities of life in a creative (this being the use of poetry) manner. Also, you have not countered my point of its use in the classroom, and that therefore means you agree with my point.

Lyrics are of course, not always helpful, but that does not mean that they aren't entirely. Some forms of pop can have, as I've said, meaningful lyrics that listeners really have to understand in order to appreciate.

Your quotes from that blog are something that I personally can agree with, but notice the use of the word "now" at the end of the quote. As he said, pop music may be uncreative now, but that doesn't mean they were never flat. In fact, same of the older forms of pop music are very creative in the sense that they use different forms of music to create a fresh type of music that is very innovative. A prime example of this are the Beatles, a very influential band that is considered a pop band. Of course, how pop is defined changes as time passes, and because you were not specific with that era of pop you're talking about, I will assume you mean any age of pop.

Lastly, I do not believe ANY artist has reached their limit, therefore no artist can be measured creatively. Because you said that they cannot be measured creatively, your arguments about their lack of creativity are rendered invalid, as well as their effect on the people of America's creativity.

Thank you very much for the great debate. :D

Debate Round No. 2
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Joshua.Stark 3 years ago
Lol totally noticed that. didn't want to say anything.
Posted by Sunbean 3 years ago
Ugh, I meant Schoolhouse Rock. My bad. xP
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