The Instigator
bellaecarter
Con (against)
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0 Points
The Contender
grahamcracker
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Is praying about a problem better than doing something yourself to fix it?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/22/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 367 times Debate No: 80003
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

bellaecarter

Con

If god wanted everything that did happen to happen, then he wanted the so-called sinful gays to exist? Cancer? Rapists? Murder? Jealousy? Mental diseases? Amputees? And another thing, isn't taking someone to the hospital to be treated for an otherwise terminal disease better than just sitting there and praying for them to get better?
grahamcracker

Pro

God did not want everything to happen. He knows what will happen. He wants for us to turn to Him for help because He can do anything. All of the sins you posted were the result of us. God gave us free will, and a choice, to follow Him and be perfect, or to disobey and forever be corrupted and twisted. Our ancestors, and by our I mean everyone, who represented us perfectly were deceived by Satan, the father of all sin. Also, you are twisting the topic. You go to a hospital and get treated and pray, because God is working through the surgeons. Also, going back to us being imperfect forever, God gave us a way out! His only Son, Jesus(Who was God, but that's for another time and another debate) came to earth, went through everything we go through without sinning once(which is something only God can do), was accused of blasphemy, arrested and tried going against all Jewish law(also for another debate), flogged so badly you could see His organs, mocked and spit on, had a crown of thorns 5-6 inches long driven into His head, forced to carry a 50-60 pound cross on His flogged back 2-3 miles after all He went through, had nails driven into His wrists and ankles, had enemies who mocked Him the whole time, had jarring pain for 6 hours, had His own Father turn His back on him, and still went through all that for you. He was buried behind a 100-200 pound stone in a stone cave, but three days later, in a flash of light that put two soldiers in a semi-coma, arose from the grave, showing He has control and victory over all things. He is living in heaven preparing to come back for all of His followers. If you want to follow Him, click on the link below, and with that I conclude.

http://www.lifein6words.com...
Debate Round No. 1
bellaecarter

Con

1) Doesn't perfection depend on the person in question and their opinion on the unachievable status?
2) Think about it. God creates mankind (with sin included) and orders us not to sin. But our sins would prevent us from following said orders wouldn't they? Why not create us without sin instead of punishing us for something he gave us in the first place?
3) If he knows all things happen, and chooses not to prevent the bad things (such as cancer), then he is not all-benevolent. If he knows all things happen, and cannot prevent it, then he is not all-powerful. If he is unable to prevent it because he doesn't know of it, he is not all-seeing. So which is he?
4) I'm not at all saying that prayer is a bad thing. Feel free to pray if you want, no judgment. However, the question is: Is praying about a problem BETTER than doing something yourself to fix it? As in one or the other. And I believe the answer is no, simply because if you pray for a cancer patient to get better INSTEAD of taking them to get treatment, they will die. But if you take them to the hospital INSTEAD of just praying, they might get better. I don't think there's anything wrong with prayer + treatment. But if the question is asking which is better, the answer is with an or, not an and.
grahamcracker

Pro

1) There is lots of evidence of God's perfection. For example, He created cells. If you do not know about irreducible complexity, it states that nothing at this level(the cellular level) can be reduced into something less complex and still function properly. No imperfect being could do that. We know He is perfect for many other reasons. To answer your question, it does not.
2) You are making a mistake. God did not create us with sin. He created us with free will, and we chose the path to sin. When Satan deceived Adam and Eve, the perfect representatives of the human race, they chose to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which opened their minds to both sides of the coin, if you will, and they understood how to sin. That embedded into them the desire to sin.
3) He is all-benevolent, but He wants us to come to Him for help. Sometimes He lets things happen that seem unjust, but everything is in His plan. He is all-powerful because He can prevent many things. In Genesis 18, Abraham asks God if He will spare Sodom and Gomorrah if He can find 100 righteous people, and the numbers go down until the number is one, and God can't find one righteous person(illustrating my point of OUR sin). He will prevent, but only if it is part of His plan. God is all-seeing because He can see and prevent(as I have already explained). He is all three characteristics you mentioned.
4) You make a valid point, but if you pray, circumstances might be better. For instance, one of my teachers had to have surgery, but they did not have the money. They prayed about it all week. The next week, a check with the exact amount needed was in the mail. Praying first might improve circumstances. God wants you to go to a hospital, but He wants you to pray first so He can help you.
(The topic is really not a good topic, by the way. It is a difficult question.)
Debate Round No. 2
bellaecarter

Con

True, the author of the question is not specific enough. However, my point is that this question is a matter of one or the other. Prayer OR doing something, not prayer AND doing something. And I don't think anybody can deny that if you have the option to either pray or do something (without being able to do both), doing something is more effective, especially considering those who don't subscribe to Christian beliefs, like myself.
grahamcracker

Pro

I get your point, but really doing one or the other wouldn't work the best it could. No one just prays about an issue, but, like I said, this is a difficult issue. You really cannot do just one or the another. Also, since you're not a Christian, please just watch the video! You do not have to do anything else, just humor me. I hope I will see you in heaven someday! Thank you for a good challenge and an awesome debate!
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by MizzEnigma 1 year ago
MizzEnigma
Even if you pray, there's still the chance said person won't get better. There's a high chance. Getting the money in the mail is called human charity. Even if your prayers harbor good will towards others, and those people are also religious and devout, there's a *high* chance they won't. Of course, that depends on what the wound/disease/etc./ is. And, if God has a plan, then He does plan everything. If He has a plan, and humans are able to go against it, then it is not a plan. If there is a plan, and it cannot be changed by human will, then it is not free will. If you change one thing about a person, then the timeline of other humans will be changed, thus resulting in change and going against the very thing He said He would not do -- mess with our free will.

- God cannot have a plan = to ensure our free will.
- God cannot answer prayers = it will go against free will.
- God cannot have evil in our world and not prevent it = lack of benevolence if He does not.
- God cannot punish us for the doings of Adam and Eve = doing so is unjust since we are not them.
- God created Satan, knowing that Satan will do the things he did = God knowingly created sin.
- God is all-knowing = He knew Satan was evil, He knew Satan would tempt Adam and Eve, He knew that sin would ravage the world, yet he knowingly created it anyway, thus creating sin.
Posted by asi14 1 year ago
asi14
I'm not debating for obvious reasons, but I will voice my opinion. Even if one prays for something, that's not mutually exclusive from getting up and doing something about it. Also, the con's opening arguments are untopical to his own resolution.
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