The Instigator
tyu
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
mrhappy
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Is religion absolutely necessary in todays society?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
tyu
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/26/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 424 times Debate No: 80196
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

tyu

Con

I think the topic really says it all. All religions and their underlying mantras can be used in the discussion.

First round is acceptance.
mrhappy

Pro

I will gladly except this debate. I'm a Christian and I think that it is necessary no matter what you believe.
Debate Round No. 1
tyu

Con

Great! I hope this to be a constructive and enlightening discussion.

First Argument:
So being Christian, I am sure you're aware that religion goes back more or less at least 2000 years and even before that there were other gods and goddesses that people believed in such as Zeus for the Greeks and Ra for the Egyptians. However, many of these religious entities were conceived because people couldn't really explain what caused natural events such as thunder in the sky and bad crop yields. Today, we know what causes these things as the same principles that explain thunder are the same ones we use to develop computers and other technologies and farmers now know about the importance of crop rotations.

Second Argument:
As I'm sure you're also aware (cause it's practically in the news everyday), we're now at war with fanatic Muslims in the middle east. The loses have been tragic and terrible. Unfortunately, this isn't the first war in history that was started where religion was a primary component in the instigation. Just to note, a war with a small religious component in my opinion would be like WW1 which started primarily because of prior territorial tensions and the assassination of an Austrian duke. Anyways, so another war (or a series of them) that were started because of religion include the Crusades. Unlike, the war on ISIS now, this was also a conflict between Christians and Muslims but the instigation was in fact instigated by a Christian and he painted muslims as heretics and falsely promised knights a freebie into Heaven for massacring the innocent people in Jerusalem even though they were living there for hundreds of years. In turn, the Muslims retaliated and so on and so forth. In such a way, I think religion often is used as an excuse for ones own personal gains.

Third Argument:
You may argue from my second argument that while religion can be used as an excuse, but it also gives hope to a lot of people. This is true and I really do appreciate religion for that but I think the human race can do better. Hope and comfort from praying comes from an assumption that the overlord you're praying to is benevolent which is a separate debate altogether to be honest. For now I'll just note the thousands of kids that are malnourished across the world. Anyways, praying isn't the only source of comfort and hope. One always has family, friends, or even pets that can grant them comfort. If I were suffering and my family and friends were there to support me, that is jubilation beyond comprehension in my opinion.

So anyways, that's my argument. Looking forward to yours.
mrhappy

Pro

Fist I would like to say I can tell that you are very educated in religion which is more than I can say for myself. but what I would like to say in my own opinion of course is that without religion how does a person know what to look forward to at the the end of there life. Think about it a they go through out their whole life they ask themselves what going to happen when they. me as a Christian know that when I die I'm going to live in heaven so I strive to live my life as God would want me to. Just as it is with with other religions. So I think religion is necessary to help people govern there every day lives as well as what to expect in the after life.
I'm sorry I don't watch the news but what I can tell you is that wars are not all religion based. So if that's one of your arguments then we should do away with every thing that's ever started a war.
I agree I love my dogs, and I love my friends and girlfriend but those kinds of comforts are only temporary. When you pray to a higher power its a permanent thing that's embedded inside of you. Dogs friends and even family come and go but religion (as long as your a strong believer) will stay with you forever.
Debate Round No. 2
tyu

Con

Thanks! I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than you're letting on.

1) So with regards to your point on giving people something to live for. I agree that it does give you something to look forward to at deaths door making a life of doing good seem worth it but in my opinion, should that be the reason one does good things? Why not do things out of simple kindness. If you do good things banking on the fact that it'll increase your chances of getting into heaven, isn't that somewhat of a paradox because you're hoping to get something out of helping people which is more self-serving than pure kindness. Also, with regards to the afterlife in general, is death really such a nightmarish thought? I'm not going to carry on with this too much because again death could really be its own debate, but I will say that instead using death as a motivational factor (which I think is your point), why not instead think about doing the most you can in life. History is filled with people like that.

2) Oh, no problem. I guess I'll just summarize my thoughts in a sentence then. I'm aware that religion doesn't start all wars but they do start some (especially prior to 1800) making its elimination more positive than negative in my opinion.

3) This may be true but I think this point depends entirely on the person (as you say with "if you're a strong believer") and may be a little bit outside the topic so I'm not going to argue it this round. Feel free to provide more detail and I'd be happy to contest.
mrhappy

Pro

I agree whole hearted, people should have higher morals. I myself have learned a lot about how to treat people through my religion. I knew the basics but I did learn a lot. Now that's just me but think about if all the people who have a religion just dropped it. there would be a lot more mean ruthless people. So with my religion guiding me I can easily get back on track and be reminded to be kind. Christians tithe and send in offerings but if we weren't Christians there would be no reason for me to give, the people I was giving my time or money would then go without.
Debate Round No. 3
tyu

Con

So you're essentially supporting my argument then when you say you're saying that you're only giving because you're Christian.. Could you not give if you were not Christian? I know many atheist and agnostics who give because they can sympathize with anothers suffering. Ex: Stephen Fry who is probably the most faithless man ever but supports many charities who do good work.

Also, do you really think there would be more ruthless people in this world, which is purely relative? To an impartial bystander, a majority must appear ruthless to a holy man but compassionate to drug lords and dictators. So, I'm not sure how relevant that point is.

Anyways, in closing, to voters, I'd like to point out that I've made what I believe are reasonable alternatives to religion. My opponent has rarely challenged my points especially in the first couple rounds and uses only his own limited experiences to argue back. Nevertheless, I thank him for sharing those experiences and contributing to this debate. All the best mrHappy. Maybe we'll do this again sometime~
mrhappy

Pro

I know you would not want to hear about my personal life but let me tell you something.
20 Years before I was born my father was a druggie, a thief, a liar, he didn't care about any body but himself. But then he found God he turned his life around made his rights wrong and eventually married my mom, who was going through the same thing. So I kind of have secondary hands on experience.
And if you don't want personal stories take in the account of Karla Faye Tucker a woman who slaughtered two people yet somehow while she was in prison she found God and changed many lives around the globe. PLEASE READ ALL OF IT it will really help you see what I'm saying.

TUCKER: Yes. And a ministry came to that jail to do a service, a puppet show, one night and everybody in my tank was going out to the puppet show and I didn't want to stay alone in my tank, so I decided to go with them and socialize in church. Well, actually, when I walked through the door I never said a word, so I never did any socializing, but when I went back to my tank that night, something got down in there and I had grabbed a Bible. I stole this Bible not realizing Bibles were given out free in jail, 'cause I'd never been there. So...

KING: Never were a churchgoer or anything?

TUCKER: I was never -- no. And had never been in jail. I didn't know that they gave out Bibles out free in here to those who needed them. So I took this Bible into my cell, and I hid way back in the corner so nobody could see me, because I was like really proud. I didn't want anybody to think I was being weak and reading this Bible. I realize now, you have to be stronger to walk with the Lord in here than you do to not walk with him.

It's a whole lot harder, let me tell you. But anyway, that night I started reading the Bible. I didn't know what I was reading and before I knew it, I was just -- I was in the middle of my floor on my knees and I was just asking God to forgive me.

KING: How do we know, as a lot of people would ask who don't know you, that this isn't a jail house conversion?

TUCKER: I don't try and convince people of that. For me, if you can't look at me and see it then nothing I can say to you is going to convince you. I just live it every day and I reach out to people and it's up them to receive from the Lord the same way I did when somebody came to me. ... There is evidence, consistent evidence, in a person's life.

And I'll tell you what, I've been in here 14 1/2 years, and it can be a pressure cooker. I mean, you have different personalities.

You have people who are still violently acting out in here. If I was going to do anything, it would have happened by now. But it hasn't. ...

KING: Do you think that a part of the anger that the state may have or people may have, is the method that the victims died?

TUCKER: Oh, yes.

KING: Because there were axes -- axes were involved, a lot of blood. It was a horrible death, right? Do you think that plays into this?

TUCKER: Yes, I do. And if -- if you were to execute me, you could, without using me being a continual threat to society, if someone wanted to, they could use the brutal -- the brutality of that crime itself --.

KING: In other words, ax you to death?

TUCKER: Yeah. I mean, it was horrible. It was. And there are people out there who are in pain because -- I mean, every single day they have to think about that. They live it every day with birthdays and holidays, and maybe a smell that triggers a memory, so it's not -- I -- I realize that. I mean, I -- I think about them all the time. And I know that they're going through pain. ...

KING: Finally, you remain up.

TUCKER: Yes.

KING: You have to explain that to me a little more. It can't just be God?

TUCKER: Yes, it can. It's called the joy of the Lord. I don't -- when you have done something that I have done, like what I have done, and you have been forgiven for it, and you're loved, that has a way of so changing you. I mean, I have experienced real love. I know what real love is. I know what forgiveness is, even when I did something so horrible. I know that because God forgave me and I accepted what Jesus did on the cross. When I leave here, I am going to go be with him.

So after all this think to yourself (both Con and the voters) whether your a Christian, an atheist, Buddha, or any other religion you can agree with me that without your believe your life isn't complete. We all live a certain way and our religion is what guides us.
thank you for this debate and I hope we can do it again.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: Trexcalibur// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: I believe that both arguments were powerful, but Con's, as a Christian, arguments are more convincing than Pro's

[*Reason for removal*] This vote is incredibly biased, deciding the debate based entirely on the religion of the debaters rather than the content of their arguments. That is not allowed as a basis for determining the victor any more than skin color is a viable means to determine the winner of a debate.
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Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Is atheism necessary?
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
I would accept this, but I'm in another debate that's kind of similar :P
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
This will be interesting, I hope.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
tyumrhappyTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments win out. Con laid out 3 points in his first round, the fact that religion was used to explain what couldn't be explained and the wars religion has caused. Both of these arguments were essentially dropped by Pro, who simply stated that not all wars were caused by religion, giving no examples, and stating that they aren't informed on the matter. Both of these arguments go to Con, 2-0. The third point in the debate was brought up by Pro, who stated that religion gives you the security of thinking you know what happens when you die. But Con quickly turns this against Pro, stating that there should be better reasons to do good than to simply win heaven points so you can go there when you die. This point is later dropped by Pro, making it 3-0. The rest of the debate Pro gave isolated examples of good people that were religious, and Con on his side giving isolated examples of good people who were irreligious, so that's a tie. In the end, 3-0 Con.