Is the Bible True?
Debate Rounds (4)
1, are you really 99 years old?
2, of course you're not a prophet (nonprophet) but does that have to do with anything? Does that just mean you're not religious?
Now let's begin. I want you to state the reasons you believe the Bible is or is not true and I will give reasons also.
How do you explain the age of the Universe? No not the Earth, the Universe. The Bible teaches that the entire universe was created by a six earth-rotation days. The Bible also gives us many genealogies, between the ages of parents and generations ahead and below them. We can learn the time between Adam and Eve, (the first humans) and to when Christ was born, about 4,000 years. From historical records we also know that Christ died 2,000 years ago (roughly). We can look at the earth and say yes, it and everything inside it was created 6,000 years ago.
Normally, I don't debate 14 year olds, but I think this will be a good educational experience for you. I'm no trying to "win", so the voting doesn't count for me.
1. No, I'm not 99 year sold. I'm 49. But the moderators of this website don't enforce the age rules, so this is my "protest".
2. I'm an atheist, which means I don't believe that a god exists. I can't prove there's no god, but I have never found proof that there is one.
You ask, "How do you explain the age of the Universe?"
Well, I'm not a scientist, but according to scientists who have the proof, the age on the Universe is 13.8 billion years. I think it can be older, because that's really the age of the Universe you can see. The speed of light is how the scientists measured the age of the Universe, so I will agree with them that it is at LEAST 13.8 billion years old.
You say "The Bible teaches that the entire universe was created by a six earth-rotation days."
Now think about this for a minute. Which came first? The Earth or the Universe? The Earth is in the Universe, so wouldn't the Universe have to exist first for the Earth to be in it? It would be impossible to know what an "earth-rotation day" is before the Universe came into existence, because there was no Earth to rotate!
Do you understand why the Bible is wrong now?
The Bible is just a book. It was written by a bunch of goat herders many years ago, who knew very little about science.
We now know so much more. When you see the Sun, it takes over 8 minutes for the light to reach your eyes. There are other stars so far away, that it takes the light from them, millions of years to reach our eyes. If the Universe was only 6000 years old, it would be impossible to see those stars so far away...but we do!
Do you care about what you believe is true? What's the BEST way to find out the truth? An old book or by looking at reality yourself? Scientists do experiments with reality. They can actually see the truth with their telescopes. Only gullible people would believe a book without question.
The Bible is a book of stories, not a science book. Stories are fun to read and imagine, like Harry Potter, but books don't prove anything is real, not even a science book. When you take science in school, they don't just give you a science book to read. They make you take labs and do experiments, so you can see for yourself that what the book says is true. That's why you can claim that science is true. It's not just something to believe.
I hope I helped you understand a little about why the Bible isn't true.
Never be afraid to ask questions and seek the truth or yourself. The people who want you to beleive the Bible, want you to live a life where you support their church with money. It's a business and they are selling you lies. Things like eternal life, which nobody can pove really exists, are promised to people in exchange for their money.
From the way you put it, you can't argue how science books can be proved wrong--using the labs they give you. As with the Bible, God has given us the world as our lab, to experiment, to find evidence, to prove it is truth...like these.
Fulfilled prophesies: Isaiah 40:22 and Psalm 103:12 both say that the earth is round, not flat. There are many more at the website: answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v6/n2/fulfilled-prophesy
Archeological Finds: the Tel Dan Stele. Rulers and people from Egypt, Israel, and in the Mesopotamia would make steles and write on them their achievements or great victories. Carved on this particular (extraordinary) stele are the words "House of David." This proves that the United Monarchy under King David existed in history.
The Moabite Stone (or Meesha Stele) records the revolt of Meesha, King of Moab, against Israel. It mentions Omri, King of Israel, David of the United Monarchy, and even Yahweh, a huge witness and a unique name of the God of Israel!
There are many more finds that refer to the Bible and were obviously written around 2,000 years ago.
Scientific evidence for a young universe:
"Missing" super-nova remnants
Moon moving away from earth
Scientific evidence for a young earth:
Continents erode too fast
Too much mud on the sea floor
Too much sodium in the ocean
Too rapid decay of Earth's magnetic field
Geological evidence: In Genesis there is the story of the Flood, where God destroyed the earth and most of the inhabitants. 19th century biologists argued that rock layers and the fossils found in them were formed as sediments were deposited gradually, but today geology confirms many rock layers were deposited catastrophically, burying fossils within only minutes or hours.
About the "business" of Christianity that you propose, at the church that I go to the pastors (main and youth) 1) don't get paid a lot, 2) are nice, truthful people who are not perfect and do stumble sometimes, but we discuss and work things out together and they are definitely NOT in it for money. They are great examples whom I follow respectively BECAUSE of the evidences they give, the impact of their prayer and love, and the amazing teachings that are based on the Bible. And my church doesn't bribe you into giving money in exchange for eternal life! They are human and can't promise anything to an entire congregation, and all they do is preach the truth about the Bible and Christianity. Yes, they tell us about salvation n Christ, but not to make us donate!!
One thing: How do you explain all the (so-called) encounters with the Holy Spirit? Like powerful "electrical" surges that go down people's backs in a church? What would you say to a family who had a miracle happen...there are multiple I can think of off the top of my head but here is one. From the perspective of MY FRIEND who goes to my school and is my age--and he has witnesses--about 3 years ago he was crossing a street in front of his house, and a car was coming that he didn't see. The boy was in the street and the car was going too fast to stop...his parents said they saw him go under the car, his brother who was standing near said he saw him go under, and the driver said he slammed on his brakes but did see the boy get run over. The BOY, however, said all he saw was a radiant, bright, yellow light and in the end all he got were a few bruises and scratches. And have you heard of Joseph Lamb? Look him up on Google and see what you think. Is that an angel he heard or what?
I'm sorry, but those aren't "funfilled prophesies". They are too vague to be sure what was being talked about. If I said there will be a big war within 100 years and it happens, is that a funfilled prophesy? No.
Here are a list of other prophesies NOT fulfilled by the Bible
Can you please show me the Bible verses that mention things like "Spiral galaxies", "super-nova remnants"?
I have never seen those words ever used in the Bible.
I'm sorry, but there was no great flood. Sure there were local smaller floods, but nothing like what the Bible describes.
You claim your pastors "don't get paid a lot". Unless they do it for free, it is a business. It would not survive without donations. The money has to come from somewhere.
How do you explain all the (so-called) encounters with the Holy Spirit?
Like powerful "electrical" surges that go down people's backs in a church?
I get those when I go to a rock concert. It's emotional
What would you say to a family who had a miracle happen...
What do you say to a starving child's family in Africa that prays for food and dies from hunger?
About the "miracle boy under the car"...Why would god even cause him to get a few bruises and scratches?
He could have just made sure no car was coming at all at the time.
A boy gets a few bruises and scratches and that's a miracle? Sounds like he got hurt to me!
Is that an angel he heard or what?
Probably not. Sounds more like his brain under stress.
Joseph Francis Lamb was a noted American composer of ragtime music. Lamb, of Irish descent, was the only non-African American of the "Big Three" composers of classical ragtime, the other two being Scott Joplin and James Scott.
The Business of Church: the Bible TELLS us to tithe. I've never been forced to give to the church but I believe that it would help the spreading of the Truth so it makes sense to do so!
Sorry, I meant to say Josiah Lamb not Joseph. :) Now you can tell me what you really think. And the references about spiral galaxies and super-nova remnants do not have to do with the Bible, they are facts that prove the Bible's contents right.
Your two videos: ha ha very funny. But you don't see how it actually goes. Those "amazing" finds people saw in food and statues were interesting but I doubt the people that found them were even Christians, just people who saw--faces--and made fun of Jesus by making them public and calling them 'artifacts'! (This ties into the other video too)...What does God have to do with the finders, or with the funny faces? What the Bible says is the answer to what you think God does. He is not the reason for all the suffering and pain in the world. Actually the truth is, the Bible records a lot of honest questions and angry prayers (like ones by Job, David, and Jeremiah) directed towards a God who they thought didn't care about them. But who is really responsible for the evil in this world? If God created us, and we are who we are now, we are free to do what we want, correct? He gave us the freedom of choice. Free will. We would all be robots if He didn't give us these feelings: love, kindness, self-control, but, also, hate and anger. He has to allow the possibility of the misuse of freedom (in people's doings). Look at this analogy: "If I give someone five dollars, can I completely control the way she spends it? If I stepped in every time she was going to spend the money unwisely (according to MY judgment), is it really HER money at all? If the only things she can buy with her money are the things that I decide are worthwhile, is it not rather still my money which I am indirectly spending through her?" -Greg Boyd
Now, natural accidents of the earth are a little different. A person who has the freedom of choice does not much influence a starving, dying family in Africa. The Bible answers this clearly: sin entered the world...Genesis...and it has forever dominated man's heart since then. But take, for instance, the famines, and third world countries; is that 'natural disaster' what God created? Perhaps it IS a problem from us imperfect humans and perhaps it's partly our fault that so many die from starvation: Would anyone starve if we all truly 'loved our neighbor as ourselves?' It's proven by specialists in the field that there is more than enough food to feed everyone always. In fact, Americans are only 7 percent of Earth's population, but they take up over half it's resources!! And God isn't the only one up there in the spiritual realms. The King of Sin, (Satan), is always competing and tempting and in the Bible, He even tempted God.
Do you still say that God could have just controlled my friend when he was going to cross the street and told him 'wait, there's a car coming even though you don't see it,' and my friend would've immediately obeyed? Going under a car and not getting killed isn't enough for you? What's your definition of a miracle?
"The Business of Church: the Bible TELLS us to tithe. I've never been forced to give to the church but I believe that it would help the spreading of the Truth so it makes sense to do so!"
Wow you are gullible! A book tells you to give money so a business that claims to spread the "truth" so the buiness can stay alive, and you fall for it. What truth? Your old book of fairy tales with talking snakes and a guy walking on water? You call that truth? Where is your evidence? Prove it is the truth!
If one thing in the Bible is right, that doesn't make it all right. I have a Spiderman comic book. It says Spiderman is from New York City. I know New York City is a real place, so does that make Spiderman real? Um, no.
About free will. If god knows EVERYTHING, he will know what I will do tomorrow, So how will I have the free will to do anything different than what he knows I'll do?
You seem to think that the Bible is perfect. You do know it was written by imperfect people, right? You do know it was written many years after the stories supposedly took place. If you saw a traffic accident, could you remember it perfectly 30 years later and write it down perfectly?
You do know the Bible was edited and things taken out, right? You do know that the Bible was translated from old languages and some aren't even used anymore. That's the best way god can communicate his important messages to us?
Why didn't Jesus himself write the new testament? You think Jesus didn't know how to write?
Oh, you talk about Satan...If god is so powerful and good, why doesn't god just get rid of him? He sure must like having him around!
If god is almighty, he could have made sure the car never drove down that road at that time to begin with. He can flood a whole planet, but he can't stop a kid from getting bruised by a car?
I don't believe in miracles, so I don't have to define them. The burden of proof is on you, since you claim they are real.
"You think Jesus didn't know how to write?" The Son of God's job on the earth wasn't just to be a good example to the people around him. It was to pay the punishment for our sin and to symbolize God's forgiveness. He came to Earth with a human body and heart, but had the soul of God. His disciples, spectators, and followers wrote about their experiences with him in diary and letter forms. Would you lie about your life while you wrote in your diary? Or while you wrote a letter to someone?
Satan, (evil), is everywhere. But it's normal to all of us because 'sin' is the world we live in. God and Christians are a rebel against the world. The time will come when God will make a new Heaven and a new Earth. The time will come when He will swipe away the bad and put them in their rightful spot: and everyone can watch it happen. In fact he did already, with the Flood, but that was not the Rapture. If he did stop the kid from getting bruised by a car at all then he'd have to "work miracles" to everybody else too, right? It wouldn't be considered a miracle, and by MANY, if he didn't save the boy from getting hit by a car and surviving.
How come tithing is and has been (for thousands of years) common for Christians? I would answer with the same thing I said in Round 3! Admit it, you thought something like this when you read the above sentence: 'People are, and have been, brain-washed and gullible to believe these stories and theories. The people that believe in that stuff are crazy.' Well, I'm sorry, but I would say the same thing to people who don't believe in the Bible!
There isn't just one correct thing in the Bible, there are many and some are what I already showed you. Hey, I have a biography. It says that a person was born. I know he was born, but does that make him real? ell actually, I have a biography OF THE WORLD.
Defining a miracle shouldn't be hard for you. The Big Bang (supposedly) happened. I think we are equally "burdened."
A few more things. Thanks for debating this topic. And I admit, there are multiple unanswered questions about Christianity and believing in the Bible that I can't answer (I'm not perfectly stable in this spot), but I don't think anybody is perfectly stable in the spot they're in. But I know something, Christianity will be and is persecuted. There's no way around that. By the way, I just wanted you to know...I'm not 99, 49, OR 14. I'm actually twelve. And yes I have been persuaded in a few ways because of your arguments.
I know my opponent is only 12, but I'm glad he/she is debating this topic and open to questions and answers.
OK, to respond: I'm sorry to say that there is no such thing as miracles. Sometimes, something happens that we don't expect or would be hard to believe, but they aren't miracles. Winning the lotto isn't a miracle. Surviving cancer isn't a miracle.
Neither is surviving a car crash or a flood or anything else. It happens, but not always. Some people also die of cancer, car crashes, floods, etc. It's just the way things happen.
As far as science is concerned. Science changes when we find new evidence. That's why it's always getting closer to 100% truth. Science takes the evidence we now have and gives us the best possible explanation for it. It's a good thing that it changes.
The fact that the Bible doesn't change, isn't a good thing. The Bible condones slavery, for example. Slavery was accepted back in the times the Bible was written. Over time, mankind figured out that slavery was NOT moral, so we changed our laws to make slavery illegal. If we stick with the Bible and what it says, we have to accept slavery as being moral, since it's condoned in the Bible and the Bible doesn't change. That's not a good thing.
Darwin's books are rightfully disputed, because 100+ years after he wrote his books we have new evidence that can prove him wrong on certain things. That's what makes science so great. It can admit it is wrong. The "infallible" Bible can't admit it's wrong, even though we now know it is!
The Bible itself was edited by The Council of Nicaea. They decided things like when Easter would be celebrated. It is all man made superstition.
Don't you think that if Jesus could write, he would have written the whole new testament by himself, in every language? He supposedly doesn't lie, right?
You say "I would say the same thing (that we are crazy) to people who don't believe in the Bible!"
The thing is, there is no evidence to believe what the Bible says. So it is crazy to just believe it. It's like reading Harry Potter and believing that was true.
The Big Bang has real evidence to prove it happened. There is cosmic background microwave radiation caused by the Big Bang that we can her on radios, for example.
You claim "Christianity will be and is persecuted" That's not true at all. Religion is protected by the Constitution.
Atheists are the ones that are persecuted.
Let me ask you this: Why do you believe the Bible is true? There are millions is Muslims that claim the Quran is the right holy book. If you happened to be born in Iran, for example, you would now be telling me that Islam is the right religion. So how can a religion be true, based on where you happened to be born? You're a smart person. You know how to think and reason. It's not WHAT you believe, but HOW you believe it. I'm sure everything you do in life, you think about carefully. If you saw a hole and couldn't see the bottom, would you just jump in on faith or would you question if it was safe to jump in? When you get ina car, do you put on a seat belt to be safe or just have faith you won't crash? We don't use faith because faith is just believing something without evidence, and that makes us gullible. You wouldn't buy something without knowing what you were buying. You would ask questions about it, not just buy it on faith. So, why use faith for your entire world view? Doesn't that make you gullible? Wouldn't it be better for you be a skeptic and only believe things you have evidence for? That's what atheists do. Even though the Bible is an amazing book, there is no evidence for it, to prove it's true. It condones things like rape and slavery, which we know aren't moral, yet we are told that's where morality comes from!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Benshapiro 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con used Ad Hominem attacks so conduct goes to Pro.
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