The Instigator
Phoenix777
Con (against)
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The Contender
Jeong_Donghyun
Pro (for)
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Is the Bible the word of God?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/19/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 596 times Debate No: 77875
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
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Phoenix777

Con

Let me begin by introducing the format:

Round 1: Acceptance to debate [no arguments]
Round 2: Opening Statements
Round 3: Rebuttal
Round 4: Finish rebuttal, then conclude

I am happy to have the opportunity to have this debate and welcome my fellow contestant to this interesting discussion.

For years the question if the Bible is the word of God has been a hot topic that is being discussed all the time. I will be supporting the fact that it is not the word of God, of course without being offensive. :D
Jeong_Donghyun

Pro

I am also looking forward to the interesting discussion. I am glad that you have agreed to make it not offensive. You have myy sincere gratitude for your consideration.

I am looking forward to reading your first statement!
Debate Round No. 1
Phoenix777

Con

Before I start: If I hurt anybody's feelings then I apologize in advance.
Let me begin by stating the logical requirements of a scripture (or book etc.) to be the word of God.

1 Version (no variations, changes or separations of any kind)
No mistakes, errors, flaws or contradictions
Clear statements and no confusions (laws, rules etc.)
Non-Human origin (not invented, or written)
It should remain in its native language

Now you might ask, who am I to set these standards? First of all, I am not setting standards, I am just establishing a logical image of something worthy to be called the word of God. As I am religious, meaning I am not an atheist, I do believe that a word of God exists. Second of all, it is plausible and obvious that the word of God should not have any variations and definitely no aberrations and errors, as it is clear that almighty God is incapable of mistakes. In addition to that the scripture should be direct and not challenging (mentally), and be equipped with the best possible word choice as there should be no linguistic boundaries for God. Of course translations must be available for the ones not speaking the native language of the scripture, however it must be that these translations do not vary from the native meaning, as there is a reason why the words of God have been selected in that way (e.g).

I will "evaluate" the Bible according to these requirements. Let"s start with what it does have"
I am afraid that there are none available. The only one that might be possible is point C. However this is put into doubt as I have had a discussion with someone before who called himself a divine christian, about multiple verses in the bible (which I will mention later) and he said, "maybe "..." was meant. It is possible that this was meant". The word of God is clear and does not create dilemmas of any kind. And the fact that many people cannot clearly figure out whether Jesus was a prophet, or God"s son, or God himself or the part of 3 or anything just shows how unclear the Bible can be and is. There isn"t anybody, not even some highly titled christian scholars, who can easily explain the trinity, when it comes to verses in the Bible in which the position of Jesus is unclear. .
C has been explained. As we can see nowadays, there are countless versions of the Bible, which even titled scholars fail to count and sum up. However we know that over 400 000 different sects and denominations of Christianity exist. Many of them are either rivals or don"t have a strong connection. Now if you would ask Jesus what religion he follows, what will he say? "I am a Roman Catholic", "I am a Protestant", "I am a Mormon", "I am a Jehovah"s Witness"? How can you know which one is right? One cannot say that this does not matter as long as he believes in Jesus as every little violation of his commandments is a sin: James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it". He will also not say that he is christian because he has never during his first time heard of anything such as the word "christian" or "Christianity". This name only evolved from the Jews when they used to say "he is a christian, he is a follower of the christ"" There is no other context from that time which he would have known of such kind. Also one should bear in mind, that many bibles have been corrupted throughout the centuries. One of the most notable ones is the King James Version. There many words and verses have been altered or changed just to the benefit of the King. How can something like that be considered the word of God? That is A. done.
The Bible has (historically proven) first come into existence in the 3rd Century, however the oldest copy available is from the 4th Century. Still that is 200 years after Jesus. And it was not even written by his disciples. It was written 2 centuries, for that time that"s 4 or even more generations after his occurence! How do you expect the message being revealed by Jesus to be accurate going through so much time? In addition to that Jesus" language was Aramaic. However this native language source is one of three, with the other two being Hebrew and Koine Greek which is an older version of Greek. That is three main sources. How many of the bibles we have nowadays are being taught or written in Koine Greek or Hebrew or most important of them all, Aramaic? Not as many as there should be. Jesus native language never was Latin or English or any of that. However the main christian language was Latin, until translations and other denominations evolved and were established. No problem. But if one takes the excuse of these languages being ancient (Aramaic and Greek), take an example of other religions. Judaism still has the Hebrew language, Islam still has the Arabic language and Hinduism is still in its native language (of some sort) as well. But are the translations of Jesus" words correct? First of all we have thousands of sources from which the Bible developed. This does not mean that that they are wrong, but having so many sources from different languages, from which none are even used nowadays, the chances of mistranslations and other mistakes are just on their way up. We have Bible Scholars which have doubted and stopped using translations of today because of false translations. If you check a type of book called "Interlinear Bible" you can read the translated verse and right below it you find the original/ or koine greek verse" You find two different words (meaning). They don"t match. There are many different interpolations and fabrications in the Bible which are actually non existent from what Jesus has revealed. And this has been confirmed by many Bible scholars. Therefore one can see that the Bibles from the 3rd Century until today are written by human hands and minds. So A. , C. , D. , E. are done.

Now I want to come to my most important point. B.
There are numerous errors and contradictions found in the bible.
I will not go in a specific order, but will try not to be confusing.

The creation.
According to Genesis the order of the creations in are:
1. Heaven and Earth
2. Night and day
3. Sky
4. Plants
5. Sun, moon, and stars
6. Fish and birds
7. Land animals
8. Man and woman at the same time

As one can see the earth and heaven were created on the first day. But there neither darkness nor light existed until the sun, moon and the stars were created on the fourth day. Notice that night and day were created with no light being available to distinguish between those two. In addition to that a sky exists but with no darkness or light. And with that the plants were created before they had a source of light. It is scientifically proven that in the process of photosynthesis light (sunlight) is needed for it to happen. This was not possible due to the inorder and is therefore an error and contradiction. Ok one might say a day (24 hours) is not a problem for a plant. Sure that"s fine. But people and many scholars say that a day from God"s perspective must be a few thousand years or even longer. Name one plant can can survive even one thousand years without (sun)light. And back to the earth, it is scientifically proven that the earth cannot exist before the sun as it is dependant on it.

Another error is the description of the earth itself shown at multiple verses of the Bible:

Job 38:13 speaks of the earth being taken by the physical ends with "That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?"
In Job 11:9 it says that heaven and hell's measurements are "Their measure is longer than the earth And broader than the sea". How long is a sphere? There is no length in a sphere. Now a flat two dimensional object would have a length
Proverbs 8:27- When he prepared the heavens, I was there, When he drew a circle on the face of the deep
Isaiah 40:22- It is He who sits above the circle of the earth
There are other places in the bible such as: Deuteronomy 13:7, 28:49, 28:64, 33:17. Job 2:8, 19:4, 22:27, 33:13, 48:10, 59:13, 61:2, 65:5, 72:8. (check for yourself).

Anyone with a little bit of knowledge and logic knows what a circle is. If they would have meant sphere they would have written it as it was used in other verses. Also even as late as 1492, people were convinced that Columbus was going to fall off of the earth. But as we know today, the earth is a sphere, and there are no ends on a sphere. It is like picking up a ball and trying to find its ends.

In 1 Samuel 2:8 states that "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, And He has set the world upon them" Here the earth is said to be standing on pillars.
Isaiah 13:10 also says that the moon is a source of light. "moon shall not cause her light to shine." This is another example of the Bible seeming to be inspired by man and limited to his own perception. The moon is not a source of light.

I have many mistakes and errors I can list here. Another one: In Genesis 1:6-8 God created a firmament (which he named "Heaven") to divide the water on earth and the water in the sky. Do we really have a solid sky holding water over us? How did we manage to send satellites and the ISS(tation) and the hubble telescope if there is a solid sky?

Another contradiction is that in Hebrews Ch.1 V.10-11, and Psalms Ch.102 V.25-26 it is said that the earth will perish. Now in Ecclesiastes Ch.1 V.4 and Psalms Ch.78 V.69 that the earth will remain forever. So what will happen to the earth then?

In the Bible it is mentioned that all fruits and plants are edible however there are many plants and fruits (e.g. wild berries ) that are poisonous and deadly.

These are scientific and logical errors found in the bible, which even Dr. William Campbell couldn"t find an answer to. These errors clearly show that the Bible we have nowadays is not the Bible Jesus revealed, but a corrupted and altered version inspired by man and not almighty God.
Thank you
Jeong_Donghyun

Pro

I must say, I am impressed by the amount of Biblical knowledge you have.

As for your five requirements, I agree with most, but not with the fifth. Jesus clearly told us to go and make disciples of all nations. Now, if the Bible is in ancient Hebrews or Latin, how can people who don't speak those languages read the Bible? The Bible was translated in order to spread the gospel more widely.
"Therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:19-20). Of course, as you mentioned, some versions such as KJV (King James Version) is somewhat inaccurate. That is why there are new versions of the translation released in order to correct those mistakes. Newer versions, such as NIV, ESV, etc. are much more accurate and less biased. However, just because one British king decided to twist some parts of the Bible, you cannot disclaim the entire Bible.

You have mentioned different denominations of Christianity. However, I would like to remind you that Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses are not considered to be true Christians. Mormons have the Book of Mormons, which is clear violation of God's word. It is written, "Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar" (Proverbs 30:6). Jehovah's Witness is also not considered as true Christianity because of their repeated efforts to predict the end of the world (the Revelation). It is also written, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" (Mark 13:32). I am aware that Catholics are not considered a cult, but being a Protestant, I will defend my religion. Catholicism is also considered to be incorrect in some sense by Protestants because they believe that the Catholic traditions are just as sacred as the Bible. Of course, those traditions are man-made, and it is clearly written, "For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength" (1 Corinthians 1:25). How can man-made traditions be more important than God's word? I won't go on more about pointing out flaws in Catholic beliefs, since that is deviating from the point of this argument. If Jesus were to come back to Earth, he would not define himself as a Protestant or Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, because he is not defined by mortal interpretation of God's word. Now you see that Bible has been misinterpreted many times, but that should not decide whether Bible is true or not.

As for the translation issue, I believe I have explained it fully in first paragraph. And yes, Bible is often mistranslated or read without context. To avoid twisting his words, original Hebrew meanings are often studied and are included in many modern Bible.

As for the Creation according to Genesis, it is often debated among Christians. I will not choose a specific side and argue for it here, but answering the light and sun conundrum is possible. It is written, "God called the light 'day,' and the darkness he called 'night.' And there was evening, and there was morning"the first day" (Genesis 1:5). "God made two great lights"the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night" (Genesis 1:16). Now, on the first day he made light, and on the fourth day he made the Sun, moon and the stars. The confusion is, how can there be light if there is no Sun? The Bible mentions of God's ability to create light without Sun. It is written, "And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb" (Rev 21:22-23).

As for other contradictions, you must read the Bible in context. In Proverbs or Isaiah, it is clear that the Biblical depiction of Earth as circle was literal, since Earth is a spheroid. However, if you read the Book of Job, you can see that he is clearly speaking in figurative language. When God spoke to Job, he didn't mean that the dawns literally needed to be shown their place or taught to shake the Earth; he was using personification. Taking it literally would obviously distort the meaning of the Bible.
"Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth,and the wicked be shaken out of it?" (Job 38:12-13)
As for the Deuteronomy verses, you must once again read the context. In earlier verse, God is saying do not worship other gods. In later verses, he is warning them about his punishment for those who disobeyed. For other verses as well, you must all read the context.
"But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you" (Deu 28:15).

As for other contradictions, I have noticed that they are either because you failed to read the context clues, or because you are taking them too literally. Bible is symbolic; many prophesies and instructions are symbolic, and if taken literally, can be disastrous.

I must apologize for not being able to go through all the list of Bible verses you listed, since there is quite a lot. If you still think some cannot be explained, then please mention them in your next argument.

My arguments:
I know that God's word is true, because of several reasons. One of them is that all of his prophesies are perfect, and not one have been proven false. If God did not inspire people to write these verses, then how could they have been so exact about future events?

Also, Bible has many mortal authorship. It was written by people inspired by God, such as Moses, Apostle Paul, etc. These people had little interaction between each other when they wrote the books of the Bible, as they were separated by distance or time.And yet, all of the Bible fits perfectly like a jigsaw puzzle: a puzzle that has spanned for over thousands of years. If one divine author, God, was not behind the human authors, how could the books be non-contradictory? Simple answer is, it is not possible. Therefore, Bible is the word of God.

I am looking forward to your arguments, and once again, thank you for this opportunity to debate this sensitive topic.

Sources:
New International Version Bible
Book of Genesis
Book of Job
Book of Isaiah
Book of Proverbs
Book of Mark
Book of Revelations
Book of Deuteronomy

http://www.gotquestions.org...
http://www.religionfacts.com...
http://creation.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Phoenix777

Con

I just want to remind my opponent that the rebuttal/ answer to my argument was to take place in round 3. He did not properly state an argument with points and facts but just answered to my points which violates the format. I clearly said that round 2 is for own arguments and round 3 is for rebuttals. If my opponent"s argument is just two paragraphs long then I don't know what to do here. I hope it's not. I have no other choice than to make a rebuttal to his "counter argument". Now I offer my opponent to state his proper argument in round 3 and I can make a rebuttal to that in round 4 before we conclude. However since he has done his rebuttal already he will only make a SHORT rebuttal (sorry I cant underline here) to my counter argument and then conclude.

Now I want to begin by answering to his first CA (counterargument.) . When I said that the word of God should remain in its native language, I did not mean that there shouldn't be translations. How can a religion spread without a translated message? However I emphasize that the native language of the revelation from Jesus (as I believe him to be a mighty messenger and prophet of God) being Aramaic etc. should not be completely neglected like it is nowadays. Why would God send someone with a language that very few would understand OR use? What if Moses spoke ancient Chinese? What if the prophets of God would have spoken a language the people would not understand? I know therefore we have translations. But where is the native language? Not even old scripts remain except in major libraries! The oldest existing bible is in Latin. Did Jesus speak Latin? Did he speak English? No.
My opponent has said that the NIV and ESV (and probably other) Bibles are much better and more accurate and less biased. The New international version was published in 1978 and the ESV was published in 2001. So it took 1978 years to supposedly get a correct version of the Bible. Why would God let his word be led astray for such a long time (in human perspective). Meanwhile a new revelation must have been sent.
The word of God should be powerful enough to maintain religious unity (no to very few denominations) and people should follow it!
Christianity is the most divided religion in the world! And yet the vast majority doesn't obey many things it states or don't even know what it contains. People just say I love Jesus Christ but their love is false because they don't follow his teachings. In Deuteronomy 14:8 and Leviticus 11:7 pork is clearly prohibited. Most of the Christians have pork. In Jeremiah 35:6 and other verses say that wine (alcohol) should not be consumed. Most of the Christians do it though. Jesus Christ was circumcised on the 8th day, most Christians are not. Fornication and adultery are strongly condemned in the Bible but many Christians carry on and have sex before marriage.
To my opponent"s point on Jehovah"s Witness and Mormonism: I am not specifically speaking about any denomination. I am speaking about 400 000 different denominations existing in Christianity. Every commandment from Jesus is to be followed. Now since some these commandments vary in these denominations, which one is right? Not all can be right and nothing can"t be right (if you get what I am saying). It cannot be an all or nothing. My opponent himself agreed that scripts have been manipulated (e.g. Jehovah"s Witn.). However even bibles of the main denominations have been manipulated. Any word of God that is manipulated or changed by man loses it"s rank as Word of God. But such scriptures are being widely followed. And this is agreed upon by many Christian scholars. My opponent has also mentioned "misinterpretations" If one person misunderstands something, or a few misinterpret the word of God or the Bible or any, no problem. But if something is so widely misinterpreted and/or misunderstood, where is the credibility of the Bible? With that I mean, the Bible loses it"s "power" (not might) to deliver God"s word. The Word of God must be understandable and not create any dilemmas or possibilities of misunderstandings or misinterpretations. Now if this happens to minorities its fine but to a large population?

Also my opponent has claimed the Bible to often times be metaphorical. First of all, who can say what is metaphorical or not? If that"s the only excuse or CA then it"s very weak I have to say. Second of all, if so many things are to be taken metaphorically then why is the term Father and Son taken literally by most of the Christians. The biblical language, I agree is often times metaphorical though but one cannot just say that as a defence for those obvious mistakes found in the Bible. Anyways, it is said that the devil is the god of this world (Corinthians 4:4). Is the devil god? Satan? Also God has said to Moses in the Bible (metaphorically) I have made you a god to pharaoh. Yet he is not God or A god. I also agree that one always has to understand the context in order to understand the book itself. Therefore the verse "I and my father are one" is also meant metaphorically. The context explains that Jesus meant: In purpose we are one. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "(John 14:6). The context shows again that Jesus is the path to God however not as a Demi God, or son of God but as a prophet. He leads the people to God meaning that the ones who follow his teachings will go to paradise. However most of the Christians fail to understand that. We have Christians that say Jesus is God. We have Christians that say he is God"s Son. And there are others who say different things as well. I have met all of these kinds. And none seemed to know what they were talking about. The Bible being often times symbolic is true but cannot always be used as an argument for such mistakes. I want to ask about the verse where it is clearly said that the earth and the heavens stand on pillars. As for the ends of earth which is mentioned at at least 10 different places, very few if not none are metaphorical. It is clear that a physical end was meant. The planet earth does not have a physical end. And besides. If the bible was so clear on that, why did people until the late 15th century still believe that the earth was a plate and that Columbus would fall off when Christianity was so widespread? If you say that these mistakes have been taken care of in today"s Bibles then fine. But then it"s as practical as saying that proper Christianity was born in the late 20th century (which I obviously don"t think at all (I am Con)).
Now if you say that Hebrew texts are included in many Bibles nowadays I just want to remind you that there are around 10 million Hebrew speakers and 2 billion Christians in the world.
Now to answer to your "argument". I agree that the Bible contains words of God. But not 100%. You said you believe God"s word to be true. So do I. But now the question remains, what is the word of God? You praised the Bible about the accuracy it had about the future and so on. But let"s be honest and I am not trying to advertise or promote for it here but I believe in the Holy Quran. However I respect the Bible, the Torah, the Hindu scriptures as well as all the other religions, which has been commanded to me by my religion. What I wanted to say is that the Quran and the Hadiths (sayings of Prophet Mohamed) are at least as accurate as the Bible about the future, if not more. And also the Holy Quran is known to have no contradictions with science and even has detailed descriptions about things like black holes, communication between animals like the ants and many other things as well. The description given about black holes are more accurate than any of NASA"s studies, this was however old news to muslims since more than 1400 years. Same with the ants. Here"s what I mean: https://goo.gl... Old news since 1400 years. Also Prophet Mohamed has said: In the future, tall buildings will be built by competing "Bedouins" in arabia: Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc. True already. The increase of killings, with the killers not even knowing why they killed. Happening already. A massive increase in literacy (education). True already. The massive increase of instruments and music. True already. And the prophet also said: People will be having "instruments" on their heads. This is a metaphorical prophecy of the massive use of headphones. In today"s generations this is very widespread and popular. The spread of sexual diseases that cannot be properly cured and that nobody has heard of before. AIDS is a great example as it is fairly young (1980s). Fornication and adultery will be widespread. Already happening. And now one of the most fascinating ones: Women will be naked even though they are dressed. Leggings and other tight clothings are a great example as one can see through or recognize the bodyparts. Drinking of alcohol will be very common, already true. I can go on and on and on. As I said I am not advertising, just giving examples. Prophet Mohamed was predicted in the Bible. John Ch.16 V. 12-14 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me." This is not about the Holy spirit as it was present before already. Who has glorified Jesus the most after he left? Mohamed. He spoke what he heard (what was revealed to him)despite being illiterate (which is one of his miracles) and he glorified Jesus more than anybody else. And if you read the verses before it is made clear that Jesus must depart before the "comforter is sent". And also in (Hebrew) Song of Solomon 5:16 He is mentioned by name: Ma-ham-mad-im check for yourself. They say altogether he is lovely. But here it is Mahamad (Mohamed) and Im is a form of respect. Same for Elohim. This should be more than convincing.
Thanks
Jeong_Donghyun

Pro

I apologize for the violation of the format: I must have gotten confused about the round numbers. I will make my argument for round 3, then conclude with a rebuttal to Con's round 3 and conclusion. Once again, my sincere apologies for my mistake.

Prophesies:
I would like to begin by listing some of the prophesies in the Bible that were fulfilled.
Daniel 10:25-26
"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble."
Simple math shows that (7*7)+(62*7)=483. Note that the decree from Persian king to rebuild Jerusalem was issued in 458 B.C.
Also, Jesus started his ministry at 26 A.D (note calendar changes), and there is no year 0. 483-458=25, and taking out the nonexistent year 0, it gives us year 26 A.D.
Daniel did not know Jesus in any way, Therefore you can guess that the chance of this prophesy being correct is extremely low (1 in 10^5, to be exact). If God wasn't part of this, then who could have done this?

Another example is Isaiah 66:7-8
"Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son.Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."
This verse is talking about the rebirth of Israel. It clearly prophesies that Israel will be created in one day. On May 14, 1948, The United States recognized Israel as a nation, and on the same day British mandate ended. Israel declared its nation, and other nations recognized it. This all happened on a same day. Without God, how could Isaiah have predicted something that would have happened in 20th century? Again, the same answer: it would have been impossible.

You can also read about prophecies about Tyre, Egypt, Babylon, and even Greece (Macedonia). (Isaiah Ch 26-32).

Daniel also predicted several of the empires that did not exist in his time. (Daniel Ch. 2 and 7) He predicted the rise of Persian Empire, Greek Empire, and Roman Empire. Daniel lived during the Babylonian Empire, which was before all the empires mentioned.

Even more amazingly, but Bible also predicted many of modern technologies, such as transportation, telecommunication, weapons of mass destruction, etc. (Isaiah 60:8, Zechariah 14:12, Revelation 6:13, 15)

"As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, 'Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!' 'Do you see all these great buildings?' replied Jesus. 'Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.'" (Mark 13:1-2)
Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, which had been the pride of the Jews. The temple, as the Bible writes, was magnificent and massive. However, in 70 A.D., Roman army led by Titus captured the city and burned the temple to the ground. If Bible was not the word of God, then how could Jesus have predicted what would happen 40 years after his death?

These are just some of the prophecies in the Bible that became true. Without supreme God, the probability of the Bible's predictions being all correct to the precision it displays is much lower than the probability of the second law of thermodynamics being incorrect. That is how accurate God is. No man could have ever gotten even close to the accuracy displayed by God.

With all this overwhelming evidence that God wrote the Bible, so flawlessly like his other works, it is only logical that we conclude that the Bible is the word of God. Feel free to check the Bible verses that I have cited.

I would like to once again apologize for the mistake about the format on my part. I will make counterarguments in round 4 about the points you mentioned in your round 3. This has been an informative and civil debate, and I once again look forward to your next argument. Thank you.

Sources:
New International Version Bible
Book of Daniel
Book of Ezekiel
Book of Mark
Book of Isaiah
Book of Revelations
Book of Zechariah

http://www.discoverrevelation.com...
http://www.reasons.org...
https://planetzion.wordpress.com...
https://www.ministrymagazine.org...
Debate Round No. 3
Phoenix777

Con

I would like to begin by saying that I do not deny the prophecies given by the Bible. But all the prophecies and even more were given in the Quran. If the Quran is also capable of what the Bible is and even more, then where is the Bible"s uniqueness? Obviously as I said multiple times (and I wonder why this doesn"t get comprehended) some things in the Bible are true as the origin is God"s word. But nowadays it is not the same! I am saying again and again that the Bible that Jesus revealed was true but it does not match what we have today. Obviously those predictions came through God. The creation of the State of Israel/ Palestine will be controlled by the Jews was predicted in the Quran and Mohamed as well. Telecommunications and weapons are predicted in Islam just as much. And even more detailed. Prophet Mohamed said: The dishes will be communicating continuously and people will sever their family ties meaning instead of visiting friends and family they will sit at home and watch tv via satellite dish. And also Mohamed used this very word that is used today: Dishes--- Satellite Dishes. And the Quran and Mohamed said, "you will see the destruction of civilization. And the people surviving destruction will become the new civilization." How could one know this 1400 years before it happens? Obviously God must be behind this as well.
Before I go on, I want to ask why my last paragraph was completely ignored and not even mentioned by you. Have you not seen the amount of predictions by the Quran and Mohamed (that came true) I"ve shown you? Well here are a couple more. And those are not all of the predictions there are.

Also in Islam following things were predicted as well. Acidic Rain. Children will become filled with rage and disobey their parents. Evil will spread throughout the world. People will trust treacherous people and trustworthy people will be considered treacherous. Hypocrites will be ruling. And the corrupt will be the most powerful. Homosexuality will become widespread, popular and common. Young people will be very wealthy. This is seen for example with Mark Zuckerberg; a multibillionaire before he was even 30. And prophet Mohamed said that in the middle east there will be a brutal army with a black flag of many young men wrongly claiming to fight for Islam. And this army will be fought against by around 80 nations. As of 2014 the number was around 40 nations. Now as of 2015 it was around 70 and the number is rising. And also Mohamed said there will be many children born in families with crises. Also trials and other events will be shown to the people like a mat. Meaning that there will be a moving image shown on something flat like a mat with two horizontal and two vertical lines. We have flatscreens and TVs!! How accurate is that?? And Prophet Mohamed said that people will be used to violence that they won"t be shocked by it anymore. He said there will be people with whips, torturing and humiliating others publicly. And another one: "People will have hair similar to the fur of a Bactrian camel (from Persia). Look at Rihanna, look at Miley Cyrus! How accurate is that?! And also Mohamed predicted the conquest of Constantinople. The conquest of southern Europe. And he also predicted how governments will be in the middle east: First there will be a proper and caliphate with mercy and justice. After time it will change to cruel monarchies and then to chaos and tyranny. How can one be so accurate before it happens? No one can predict what happens in a second! And all of these predictions I said here have come true! Obviously God has to be behind this! I have given tons of accurate and true examples of prophecies that came true! Now where is the uniqueness of the Bible??
The Bible has correct prophecies but it is not the proper word of God! Jesus" revelation was though. And this is what Muslims believe in. And Jesus Christ said "Seek the truth and the truth shall free you" (John 8:32) And also, Muslims also have to believe in Jesus Christ (they don"t deny him) and they see him as one of the mightiest messengers of God. And Muslims follow the teachings of Jesus more than the Christians themselves. Muslims as a whole don"t have alcohol, most of the Christians do. All Muslims don"t have pork. Most of the Christians do. Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day. All Muslims are circumcised. Most of the Christians are not. And Jesus as well as all the other Prophets MUST be accompanied by "Peace be upon him". However because of this long debate I left it out, but usually I do it. And all proper Muslims respect Jesus more than most of the Christians. They love him and they follow his teachings. If Muslims do not, they are out. They are not Muslims anymore And prophet Mohamed was prophesied multiple times in the Bible. So why don"t you follow his Jesus" teachings then? And if you read and compare what Jesus said about the comforter that comes after him with Mohamed, it is almost identical! If you are intelligent, you should see and be convinced by now, that the Bible is not the word of God anymore and that it cannot be with what it is nowadays.

Through various examples I have given. Tons of mistakes I have pointed out, and many reasons I have given. And not to forget the predictions I have shown, it is clear and more than obvious for anyone who has little intelligence and WANTS to learn and find the truth, that the Bible is not the word of God anymore and that if it was, it was for those people and that time. But the Quran has been sent to all of humanity as it is the last script sent to humanity and Mohamed is the last and final messenger and prophet of God. There are various verses where Mohamed is predicted, by location, identity, situation and even by name! So you should believe and follow your Bible as it also speaks about Mohamed. And THEREFORE you should follow the word of God, the Holy Quran and follow the last and final Messenger Prophet Mohamed, as mentioned in the Bible.

I want to thank my opponent for this exciting and controversial debate. And it has been a true privilege for me to be able to discuss such a great topic. And I do not wish to stir up hatred or hostility, but just lead you to the right path in a peaceful manner. With these examples I have shown it should be clear. But even if you will not accept Islam as the true religion of God, I am still at peace with you as my religion tells me to be. ""There is no compulsion in religion"" (Quran 2:256) and "To you be your religion, to me be mine."(109:6). And once again I want to thank you for this opportunity and may peace and God"s blessings be upon you. I hope you find the path and the way to God through Islam. And should you be willing to accept it, I welcome you to the brotherhood of Islam :)

http://www.islamreligion.com...
http://www.answering-christianity.com...
http://www.islamreligion.com...
Biblehub.com
www.biblegateway.com
biblebabble.curbjaw.com/bible.htm
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

& Several other sources which I did not keep track of.
Jeong_Donghyun

Pro

Taking into account the Con's request, the fourth round will consist of a short rebuttal and a conclusion.

To clarify the statement made by the Con in the first paragraph, I did not mention your arguments in round 3 because of Con's request for me to make my argument only. In this round I will mention counterarguments.

I have no doubt that many prophecies in Quran are true as well. However, I would like to remind Con that the topic of this debate was whether the Bible is the word of God or not, not whether Quran is true or not. If Con would like to debate on that topic, I would suggest challenging another debate. Nevertheless, for the sake of mentioning your arguments in my counterargument, I will briefly go over it.

Although I have never read Quran, I will not claim that all the prophecies in the Quran are false. I have no doubt that some of them are true, just like the Bible. However, I would like to remind the Con that while the Bible was written between 100~400 A.D., the Quran was written between 609~632 A.D. The Bible and the books in the Bible were not unavailable to the followers of Mohammad. Therefore, it is no surprise that many of the prophecies that are in the Bible are also mentioned in Quran.

I would also like to mention the last paragraph of Con's round 3. Con has stated that Mohammad has actively supported and glorified Jesus. However, I would like to state that parts of Quran directly contradict Jesus' teachings. Here is just one example:
Quran: "Therein you shall have (all) that your innerR09;selves desire, and therein you shall have all for which you ask. An entertainment from Allah, the OftR09;Forgiving, Most Merciful" (41:31-32).
Bible: "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven" (Matthew 22:30).
Quran states that the heaven is the place where our inner desires will be filled, such as desire to drink, sin, etc. Bible states that heaven is where we are rid of worldly desires and are like angels.
This is just one example of the difference.

Apart from that, I will no longer mention Quran in order to stay on topic.

I would like to briefly counter Con's claim in round 3. Most of the claims are based on human actions: translations, division into different denominations, etc. However, God, who is the creator of all things, is not defined by actions of man. Many denominations of Christianity exist, but except for few cults and heresies, all other denominations can be considered equally right. They contradict themselves in minor ways, and often times the believers of different denominations switch from one to another. The teachings of Christ is not like a set of laws; it does not confine us to one way of serving Him. Bible doesn't talk about how specific people should be baptized, or what positions should exist within church. Denominations often divide over those simple matters. Therefore, different denomination does not discredit the Bible.

As for Con's condemnation of God's allowing the inaccurate Bibles such as KJV to last for centuries, it is essentially the question of why God lets the sinners live in this world. The answer is given in these Bible verses:
"Jesus told them another parable: 'The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner"s servants came to him and said, "Sir, didn"t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?" "An enemy did this," he replied. The servants asked him, "Do you want us to go and pull them up?" '"No," he answered, "because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn'"" (Matthew 13:24-43).
Jesus tells us that God will not strike the sinners with lightening, seeing how the people of God will also be hurt (physically and mentally) and the sinners will lose the opportunity to be reconciled. Therefore, he did not strike King James as he changed the Bible. But why did he let that Bible stand for such a long time? The answer is for God alone, but the simple answer is that the Bible, though it may be incorrect in certain aspects, served His purpose. God uses even the most wicked; there is no reason why he can't use a slightly mistranslated Bible. Also, the few centuries that God took to allow newer versions to be created, it is a very short time in God's sight. He is not bound by same time orientation as the mortals.

To briefly state the argument about the pork, it is clearly written, "'Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.' After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 'Are you so dull?' he asked. 'Don"t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn"t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.' (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.) He went on: 'What comes out of a person is what defiles them'" (Mark 7:15-20).

The most important point is this: the Bible and God should not be judged by the actions of some sinners that decided to take things the wrong way. There are many Christians that sinned, but that does not make Bible false or not a word of God.

This will be my conclusion: the Bible is the word of God, and no mortal being can change that, not with mistakes, sin, or misinterpretation.

This had been an exciting and informative debate. I am glad to have found someone who can argue this sensitive topic with discretion. I thank the living God for allowing this opportunity. I would also like to thank the Con for this debate. I also am at peace with you, despite having different beliefs. God loves everyone equally, and wishes everyone to repent. May God bless you, and may Holy Spirit reside in your heart. Thank you.

Sources:
New International Version Bible
Book of Matthew
Book of Mark

Quran
http://www.gotquestions.org...
http://www.britannica.com...
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by n7 1 year ago
n7
Noob sniping is like being seduced by a succubus. You know it's wrong, but it's soooo fun.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
Yeah, also you need to clarify god of the bible, or else this debate goes wayward.
Posted by Proving_a_Negative 1 year ago
Proving_a_Negative
Don't noob snipe :P
Posted by SNP1 1 year ago
SNP1
n00b snipe or not to n00b snipe.... I could easily win this just with my first round... Ugh... What to do....
No votes have been placed for this debate.