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greyOpinion
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TheGoldMustache
Pro (for)
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Is the Confederate Flag Racist?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/3/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 341 times Debate No: 72852
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
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greyOpinion

Con

The Confederate Flag is a symbol of upholding traditional values during ailing economic times.

Confederate Motivations were ultimately economic, using racism as moral justification:

At the time of the Civil War (and before), America was the only known place to acquire cotton. Cotton was a highly valuable material (especially for clothing) and was exported to many (at the time) established nations. The seven states (particularly the businessmen) that grew it had booming economies fueled by free slave and free/cheap indentured labor. The seven states had a large pull in national politics solely for this reason.

After a while, urbanization and industrial economies started popping up. The seven states were losing their grip on national politics. After calling the shots for so long and having a fall from grace, they decided to pull out.

The primary motivator of the Confederate (businessmen) was to call the shots in national politics and reduce internal strife. To this end, they sold a religious, moral and ethnocentric agenda called racism to slaves and indentured servants (British, German, Dutch underclass who came here with promises of land and were told each few years they had to pay their upkeep) by quoting Bible scripture, teaching slaves they serve their earthly master loyally and in doing so serve their spiritual master in the next life.

By taking this spin on it, they ensured the Africans wouldn't revolt due to indoctrination (along with other things like minimizing education and intelligence).

However, what about citizens? They were taught to exemplify family, earnestness, work ethic, honesty, integrity, stoicism and to be devout. They were taught to be proud of their state of affairs in the seven states.

The Union's primary motivation was to prevent the fragmentation of America and not establish a beachhead for foreign nations (insomuch as having a partner that may overtake our fledgling country, as the British market was the primary consumer of cotton).

So the Union abolished slavery, used freed and even current slaves as HUMINT sources. Is it ok to do the right thing for the wrong reasons? (*hint* YES).

At the end of the day, however, the Confederates and Union citizens themselves were victims of wealthy businessmen and politicians looking to maintain and increase profits. These businessmen and politicians were willing to screw over anyone to get rich, the majority of the people they screwed were the poor and the Africans, especially those who fought in the Civil War on BOTH sides.

Kinda sounds like the Wall Street bailouts, or modern banking (predatory loans, imaginary/risky investment vehicles, etc. etc.).

In sum, the Confederate Flag was a symbol of upholding traditional values during ailing economic times.
TheGoldMustache

Pro

Yes. The Civil War was mainly about slave ownership, and not state rights as some believe. If you would like to display pride, use a state flag, but not a Confederate flag. It is the equivalent of showing a Nazi flag. Hitler did other things besides killing minorities, but to display a symbol of something, you essentially send a message that you support it fully, or at least support its main ideas. I am a Democrat, but I agree with some minor points of the Republican party. However, if I display the Republican symbol, people will think that I am pro- big government, and anti abortion, or against gun control.
Debate Round No. 1
greyOpinion

Con

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TheGoldMustache

Pro

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Debate Round No. 2
greyOpinion

Con

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TheGoldMustache

Pro

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Debate Round No. 3
greyOpinion

Con

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Pro

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Debate Round No. 4
greyOpinion

Con

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TheGoldMustache

Pro

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Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Stefy 1 year ago
Stefy
Its very racist. It was the battle flag of an army who fought one of the bloodiest wars in american history to maintain the instritution of slavery. Yeah you could say it was about states rights and much of it was states rights. But the main issue of states righths at the time was states rights to have slavery. Its eother na"ve or willfully ignorant to say that flag has no racist connotation.
Posted by JesusYoloSwag 1 year ago
JesusYoloSwag
do you want to own a servant
Posted by DiverseSynergy 1 year ago
DiverseSynergy
@ComradeNickie - I agree up to a point, but whilst I can understand why a great deal people might interpret the Confederate Flag and the Swastika as being racist symbolism - I think that speaks more about their own prejudicial bias in how they have chosen to interpret it than anything else. The swastika is still a far eastern symbol for luck, the confederate flag could still stand for all the traits which Con is trying to argue in this debate. If you interpret it differently, the prejudice is in your interpretation - not the symbols themselves.

@GreyOpinion - Similar point really. I don't know if you ever saw the South Park episode where the South Park Flag appeared to show a black stickman being lynched by white stickmen, but that episode demonstrates my point rather neatly. The premise was that the town had a debate over whether or not to abolish the flag; the adults in the town all were calling for it to be banned and the kids wanted to keep it. It transpired that the kids were so UNPREJUDICED that they just saw it as a guy being hanged, the racial issue never entered their heads. The adults only had an issue with the flag because they had inferred the racist connotation based on their own pre-conceived bias - in effect they were being racist in the way they had interpreted the flag. Whilst I rarely agree with the logic and morality of South Park, in that instance I think they made a very deep and far-reaching point! I'm assuming Con may be attempted to do something similar with his debate here.
Posted by greyOpinion 1 year ago
greyOpinion
I agree with your assessment.

However, a flag of a lynched black is pretty racist given the historical context.

Ultimately, symbols are a shortcut to ideology. Symbols represent and embody an ideology. Ergo, it's easily debatable what the Confederate Flag stands for.
Posted by ComradeNickie 1 year ago
ComradeNickie
Personally I don't think so, but this is also because I am a white Canadian male who has never set foot in America. The symbol may not seem offencive to you because you see it for one reason but you have to try to understand why others, especially those from African American descent, might see it as a symbol of racial origin. Plus having people who do drop the N bomb and do actively hate black people rock the rebel flag does not help the cause either. It is the same thing as some people seeing a Swastika, a once peaceful symbol of buddhist and christian use, and thinking of the Nazi Party that plagued the world in the 1940's. The symbol itself is not racist so to speak but to many people they are reminded of the people who represented the symbol and who still do and that is why they consider the Confederate Flag to be a symbol of racism.
Posted by DiverseSynergy 1 year ago
DiverseSynergy
Being a bit pedantic - but Con has an airtight argument if you just argue that a flag lacks the capacity to be racist, being an inanimate object.

Not being pedantic, i'd still be inclined to agree with Con's argument that it isn't even a symbol of racism.
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