The Instigator
joshandr30
Con (against)
Tied
21 Points
The Contender
DoctrinallyCorrect
Pro (for)
Tied
21 Points

Is the Doctrine of Oneness a correct according to Scripture?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/10/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,049 times Debate No: 5347
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (7)

 

joshandr30

Con

Is the Doctrine of Oneness a correct according to Scripture?

Oneness-

Oneness theology asserts that God is a singular Spirit, not a Trinity of persons as in traditional Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant understanding. The Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same person, says this teaching; "Father", "Son" and "Holy Ghost" are merely titles reflecting the different manifestations of the One True God in the universe. Jesus is believed by Oneness adherents to be both fully Divine and fully human; his Divine nature is believed to be the Father (who is also the Holy Ghost as well), united to Christ's human nature to form one Person, the Son. Thus the Father is not the Son (this distinction is crucial), but is in the Son as the fullness of his divine nature (Colossians 2:9). Although the Oneness belief in the union of the divine and human into one person in Christ is similar to the Chalcedonian formula, traditional Chalcedonians disagree sharply with them over their opposition to Trinitarian dogma. Chalcedonians see Jesus Christ as one single person uniting "God the Son" (a being whose existence is denied in Oneness belief), the eternal second person of the traditional Trinity, with human nature; while Oneness believers see Jesus as one single person uniting the Father himself--the one, the only, true God--with human nature to form "the Son of God". Unlike Trinitarians, Oneness believers do not accept the Son's eternal existence; the Son, say they, only came into being at the Incarnation (Hebrews 1:5). Oneness adherents point to Mark 12:29, where Jesus says that "the Lord our God is one Lord", i.e. one ruler; they insist that those who define God as a trinity of persons are saying that God is three different persons ruling, and thus three Lords, whether they are aware of this or not--the Athanasian Creed's words to the contrary notwithstanding. Oneness believers contrast their tenets not only with Trinitarianism, but also with the Arianism taught by Latter-day Saints, who hold that Christ is an entirely separate "god" from the Father and the Spirit, and Jehovah's Witnesses, who see him as a lesser deity than his Father.

I hope I have clearly stated what I am contending against.

I am choosing KJV Bible fro this debate, I'm sure you will not mind.

No Straw man.

KJV 66 Book Protestant Holy Bible is a reliable source of information for this debate.

I am contending against the Doctrine that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God but in the Doctrine Jesus is stated to be the Father that Jesus prays to.

I hope we can have a no nonsense debate without meaningless typing.
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

The answer to my opponent question, "Is the doctrine of Oneness correct according to the scripture", is simply and emphatically yes! This is what I shall endeavor to not only contend for, but also prove. Before I offer any affirmative arguments I am going to point out a few things in my honorable opponent's first speech and then I will ask him five questions.

I would like to point out that though the question is whether or not the doctrine of Oneness is correct according to the scripture he only reference in his favor Christian tradition. The only scriptures that he listed in his first affirmative were in support of the oneness position. If this were his only speech it would appear that he thinks that he has tradition on his side, but scripture on my side and that is the question of this debate.

I would like to point out that is this a debate of whether or not the doctrine of the Trinity is correct according to scripture then no amount of Roman Catholic, Protestant, or any other church will suffice as proof of this question. Since this debate is about scripture and not history any arguments from history will be ignored on my part as they are not relevant. So, now I will ask my opponent 5 questions and then yield until he offers scriptural proof.

1.Is a person's spirit a Separate person from Himself
2.According to John 17:3 who is the only God.
3.Is the title "everlasting father" a human or divine title?
4.Please define the term Person according to the dictionary.
5.Please define "co-equality" as it relates to the three persons of the Trinity
Debate Round No. 1
joshandr30

Con

I referenced Wikipedia, so that you would have no reason to question what I meant by Oneness. Look it up. No this debate is not about Trinity, it is about Oneness, please stay on topic. I will debate strictly from Scriptures, I hope you will do the same.
1. No, in Humans, creatures. God is NOT Human.
2.God. Not Baal. Molech and a host of other false God's. Jews and Gentiles had trouble with this.
3.Divine. God is Divine. Counsellor, Holy Spirit. The everlasting Father,Father. The Prince of Peace. Jesus.
4.Webster. Person-An individual; (; means or) the character,or characteristics of an individual;or a living human being.
I answered this even though it goes into Trinity territory, I will not do it again.
5.Again this is not about Trinity, there all God. All divine.

Now my turn. Please answer some questions of mine, please keep them simple and short as I did.
1.How can Jesus be God and be with God at the same time.
2.Why would Jesus pray to His Father if Jesus is the Father.
3.Explain the Baptism of Jesus, Father looking down, Jesus on bank and Holy Spirit as dove.
4.Explain Gen. 19:24.
5.Explain Rev. 7:10
Please see bellow for verses
Please understand I do not have to prove Trinity in this debate. I have to defeat Oneness. I do have a questions that will help me understand your position for later. According to the above doctrine about Oneness, is Jesus undivided? Is He both God and Human at the same time? No division, no separation between the two? I think you will say yes and if you believe this a very simple yes will do.

Gen 19:24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Rev. 7:1010And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Matt. 3:16-17And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matt.26:39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
John1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Since I have 609 characters left over I will discuss a little of my personal beliefs. I was raised Lutheran. I went to a Oneness Church for three months. I learned the doctrine and came to realize it was false doctrine. But one good thing came from my visiting them, they turned me towards the Catholic Church. The UPC's hatred of the Catholic Church drew me to this verse.

John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

May the Lord bless you and keep you, may HE make HIS face shine upon you and give you peace.
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

my opponent and I have mutually agreed to discontinue this debate because of inconpatable parameters. I will challenge him since he wants to deny the oneness
Debate Round No. 2
joshandr30

Con

Well actually, I have not agreed yet to you challenging me. In our communications in the comment section of this debate I agreed to stop this debate IF you would agree to accept the same challenge from me but with longer response time and more words allowed. I again will adjust to your requests. Please create a debate and challenge me to it. I would like you to do this before I quit this debate. I am getting an uneasy feeling about this deal, like I said in our comments I would quit this debate if you would accept a new challenge on the same topic. Instead of talking to me about it you posted in debate that we have already agreed to this without me actually agreeing. Add this to your fist comments about to short and then accepting the challenge and then in the second round want to redo. So, because of this uneasy feeling I would hope you would understand and make a new debate so I can review and then decide.
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

if you feel uncomfortable, why do you send me a new challenge with the new parameters. I am sorry. I did not think that I had posted anything that you had not agreed to. Please let me know how you want it done and I will accomodate you.
Debate Round No. 3
joshandr30

Con

Make the challenge and I will review it. Then I will decide. Tomorrow though, midnight here.
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

Would you agree to the following?

RESOLVED: The scriptures teach that Jesus is the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit

In our first speech we each exchange 5 questions. There will be 5 rounds. 8,000 word limit and the maximum response time which I believe is 72 hours. Is that agreable?
Debate Round No. 4
joshandr30

Con

Drop the resolved, include any version of the Doctrine of Oneness so that we know what I am contending against. Include what resources we can use (Bible) we can use as reference, according to the Holy Bible version KJV. I will accept challenge of these guidelines are noted.
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

DoctrinallyCorrect forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
Since you want to deny the oneness let me go first and present what I believe. I will send you a challenge. thank you for your kindness and I will do anything that I can to continue a gentlemenly relationship with you as well
God bless
Posted by joshandr30 8 years ago
joshandr30
I am willing to handle this as gentlemen. I am sorry you are that busy. I do not have a problem with the time limit, I can bang one of these out in 20 minutes, but that is just me. I did mess up on the word limit though. I was hoping my first speech and title of this debate was clear on what we are debating, maybe I will need to be even more clear next time. So you want to in the end of this round,round 2, is we both agree that the time limit is to short and the limit is too short right? But how will you change anything to get more time and words, I looked and could not find a place to change anything. Oh, wait a minute, you basically want to cancel this debate and start over? I have a gut feeling I will be messing up by doing this but I will do onto others as I would have them do onto me. I am not to concerned about the debate, I am more concerned with the truth. I hope if s I mess up you will extend me the same mercy and allow me to have a chance to repair it. Let me know, do want to basically quit this debate and start a new one? Are you going to start the debate and challenge me? How about this, I will copy my first speech and then restart the debate with longer response time and more words. But other then that nothing will change. My debate will be that Oneness is a false doctrine and you will have to prove that it is correct according to scriptures. KJV is all we need. No word plays, no tricks, if I don't word something right you will show me the same respect as I am willing to extend to you concerning this debate. You know the doctrine of the Oneness and Trinity as I do. So there is no need for wasted rounds explaining. We are not debating Trinity, we are debating Oneness, please remember that next time. Agree tot his and I will redo us.
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
I am just not looking at you speech and I only have 11 hours to respond. I am way to busy to get a response back in that time period. Why don't I take my next article to say that and you in your next article say the same thing and let me set for my view in a challenge since you want to deny oneness instead of prove the trinity. I will set the resopnse time to 72 hours and max words to 8000. At the current setting I will have to forfit several speeches due to my schedule.
Posted by joshandr30 8 years ago
joshandr30
I do not think I can change the parameters after you accepted the debate. What do you mean by keep the same first speech? Are some of these comments posted after you accepted? I am sorry but I do not think I can change them. I am learning very fast that we need the maximum characters, I thought it was 2000 words. Man, those things go by quick huh. I did not want to get into a long, long drawn out discussion while chasing the rabbit around the world. To much room for straw man. I hope you did not intend to get off topic by bringing up the doctrine of the Trinity, Catholic Tradition and History. Those will be GREAT debates for later! But right now your challenge is to prove Oneness is true according to scriptures so we must stay in Scriptures ( I learned that one from you "according") and in the Doctrine of Oneness. Do you also believe you must receive further revelation from God do see and understand Oneness from Scripture as some Oneness believers I have talked to? Well I wish you the best and happy debating.
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
by everlasting father, i mean to reference Is 9:6
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
everything is fine but the word limit and response time. Please keep the same first speech if you u please. I am working on a resonse now.
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
this looks fine I just need you to change some of the parameters. I need longer time than 24 to respond to speeches and could you bump up the word limit. Please adjust these and I will be happy to do it.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 8 years ago
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