The Instigator
tyleremery2383
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Jzyehoshua
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Is the Ferguson uproar really about Michael Brown?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Jzyehoshua
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2014 Category: News
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,878 times Debate No: 66218
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

tyleremery2383

Con

Resolved: the riots in Ferguson are not necessarily about the killing of Michael Brown, but is the result of long-standing racial tensions in St. Louis.

Debate layout:
Round 1 is for acceptance.
Round 2 is for arguments.
Round 3 is for closing statements.

I thank Pro in advance for accepting and for a good debate! Good luck!
Jzyehoshua

Pro

I accept Con's debate and will refrain from making arguments in Round 1.

My understanding is that per a discussion in the comments, Con will be "arguing that although the Ferguson riots started out because of Michael Brown's death, it wasn't the real cause, but only a 'last straw,' you could say. The real cause lies in deep-seated segregation in the city of St. Louis and the surrounding suburbs."

Just to clarify my own position to prevent any misunderstanding given the brevity of the debate, I will be arguing that, rather than "deep-seated segregation" the real cause of the riots was extraneous to the city itself, and due in large part to race baiting by figures extraneous to the situation such as Eric Holder, Al Sharpton, and writers for the New York Times. My position will be that, rather than segregation, the riots would not have occurred had tensions not been deliberately inflamed and the rioting urged by powerful figureheads.

With both of our positions clearly enunciated, I look forward to an informed discussion on this subject with Con.
Debate Round No. 1
tyleremery2383

Con

Thank you for clarifying both positions. It will make the debate go much smoother. I would have mentioned my clarified argument had you not done so, but thank you for not requiring me to.

I believe that the riots are not because of Michael Brown's death, although his death was the spark that set it off. The original cause started all the way back in the 1940s and '50s during the Baby Boom. As with most wars, there was a population spike during WWII due to more babies being born. This caused a major housing shortage later, so people built more houses further away from the cities, called "suburbs." Only white people were allowed to move to the suburbs, so blacks were stuck in the city. Whites moved out but didn't sell their old homes, instead letting them deteriorate. They kept their jobs though, so they could work and make money in the city and bring it back to the suburbs via highway 270 and other highways to spend it. Because of this, blacks could not buy new properties or get jobs in the city, and could not afford to buy houses in the suburbs. Blacks were mostly stuck inside the area circled by 270, but they eventually were able to move out a bit further. As blacks moved out more, so did whites. A large concentration of whites gradually developed west of the Missouri River, while many mostly-black communities were east of the river. You can see maps from the Census Bureau of this "white flight" at the following link: (I couldn't find the maps on the actual Census Bureau website unfortunately.)

http://www.businessinsider.com...

I believe that the residents of Ferguson and the surrounding areas are just frustrated. They can't get out of the position they were put in by whites, so this one incident of white-on-black violence (whether or not it was justified is a different debate altogether) served as a way to release some of the built-up frustration.

I now hand over the podium to Pro. Good luck!
Jzyehoshua

Pro

Con's points about history seem accurate, segregation was a serious issue as he says before President Eisenhower in the 1950s integrated schools and Republicans passed the 1957 Civil Rights Act further causing desegregation. In fact it is a little-known that Eisenhower began desegregation during World War II in 1944 when he was still a top military general, by integrating black soldiers into the U.S. military, before he ever ran for the Republican nomination in 1952, before Democrat Harry Truman issued an order desegregating the military in 1948, and before Eisenhower desegregated schools in 1955. Eisenhower as general even issued orders forbidding discrimination.[1] Nonetheless I must respectfully disagree that such segregation was the primary cause of the Ferguson riots. Here's why:

1. Segregation was a national problem, as were racial tensions. While Con is correct that there were simmering racial tensions in Missouri, this was true of many other places in the United States as well where riots have NOT erupted. Con has not explained why St. Louis, Missouri was such a unique case that riots erupted there and not anywhere else.

2. Michael Brown's was not a justified case. Brown was a thug who robbed a convenience store and bullied the diminutive store owner on the way out for good measure.[2] He was not the goody two-shoes student athlete the left would like to portray him as[3] and the store video is consistent with a thug walking down the street in broad video blocking traffic who is bold enough to assault a police officer.[4] His juvenile arrest records have not been released to the public.[5] This was not a justified civil rights case like those in the days of Martin Luther King Jr. where crimes were committed against innocent people. Brown was a young criminal whose case even back when segregation was still an issue should not have led to rioting like it did.

3. These were not civil rights riots. The rioting in 1968 for example was over the death of peaceful leader Martin Luther King Jr., the epitome of class and humanity.[6] Brown, as previously pointed out, was a thug, and the city's other thugs protested his inevitable run-in with police by looting stores and burning down businesses.[7] What is more, even black-owned businesses were burned down.[8] Rather than riots attempting to help the black community and express moral outrage, the Ferguson riots were nothing more than a massive crime spree of epic proportions, and harmed the black community, which makes sense given that the one being mourned was a criminal, not a pacifistic civil rights leader.[9]

4. There were more likely locations for such rioting to have occurred with more justifiable reasons for outrage. At the same time the Ferguson riots were occurring, another trial was ongoing for Aiyana Jones, a young girl killed after a SWAT team broke into her house.[10] The shooter Joseph Weekley claimed various excuses for why he needlessly fired into the house at the sleeping 9-year-old girl, which were discredited by the conflicting testimony of the officer a few feet behind him.[11] Weekley saw the charges dropped.[12] Detroit has a close history with past rioting over civil rights, for example the 1967 Detroit Riot.[13] However, there were no riots over Aiyana's death in Detroit, unlike with Brown.[14] Why is that? The real outrage should been directed at the Detroit case of Aiyana Jones, an innocent girl rather than a ruthless thug, that was murdered through no fault of her own.

5. The riots would not have occurred if not for intentional race baiting by Eric Holder and Al Sharpton. African-American Sheriff David Clarke has accused Eric Holder, Al Sharpton, and the New Black Panthers of "descending like vultures on a roadside carcass" on Ferguson.[15] Sharpton and a member of the Obama administration, Eric Holder, deliberately inflamed tensions to attempt to cause rioting. This was not a spontaneous expression of outrage but a planned and coordinated effort, with rioters from out of town.[16] The coordination and busing in of protesters suggests a movement planned out for a political agenda.[17] Again, why were there not similar protests over the death of Aiyana Jones? Perhaps because Detroit was a heavily Democrat city, unlike St. Louis, that voted over 98% for Obama, and the officer was himself likely Democrat. The race baiters and Obama could not use the Detroit case to inflame partisan anger against Republicans without risk of it backfiring, and thus chose the Missouri case instead.

6. It is far too coincidental that a member of Obama's administration, Eric Holder, was in Ferguson inspiring riots at the same time Obama used an executive order to legalize millions of illegal immigrants[18] even as Democrats are fearmongering that Republicans will impeach Obama if elected.[19] This timing is all too coincidental. The Democrats apparently fear Republicans will attempt to impeach Obama (which they would be well justified in doing given his outdoing the spying Richard Nixon was impeached for, the dishonesty Bill Clinton was impeached for, and the executive overreach Andrew Johnson was impeached for) and are trying to get millions of minority voters fired up to riot should impeachment proceedings be started, a firewall for Obama's corrupt presidency if you will.

In conclusion, did past history of segregation and racial tensions set the stage for Ferguson? Yes it did. But Ferguson would not have occurred just because of racial tensions. The primary cause appears to be a coordinated effort by Democrat leadership to incite racial tensions ahead of a prospective Obama impeachment. The race baiting by Obama administration official Eric Holder, as well as by Al Sharpton, suggests a strategy.

Sources:

[1] http://books.google.com...
[2] http://fox2now.com...
[3] http://www.cnn.com...
[4] http://www.cnn.com...
[5] http://www.usatoday.com...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[7] http://www.cnn.com...
[8] http://www.breitbart.com...
[9] http://www.nationalreview.com...
[10] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[11] http://detroit.cbslocal.com...
[12] http://countercurrentnews.com...
http://www.usatoday.com...
[13] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[14] http://www.mlive.com...
[15] http://www.tpnn.com...
[16] http://edition.cnn.com...
http://www.ijreview.com...
http://www.stltoday.com...
[17] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[18] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[19] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 2
tyleremery2383

Con

tyleremery2383 forfeited this round.
Jzyehoshua

Pro

I wish to extend my arguments. I would additionally point out that reporting by liberal news outlets likely fostered the outrage, reporting that now appears to be incorrect.

-On August 12th just 3 days after the shooting Al Sharpton contacted the Brown family and Obama released a statement calling the Brown shooting "heartbreaking." Al Sharpton also tours the city speaking out about the incident. The next day the Justice Department under Eric Holder opened an investigation into the shooting. On August 15th Jesse Jackson arrives and links arms with protesters.[1] Despite the police chief walking with protesters on August 14th peacefully, the city turned to violent clashes in the coming weeks.[2] On August 23rd, Obama had aides attend Michael Brown's funeral.

-CNN incorrectly reported over a period of months that all witnesses agreed Brown had his hands up and was fleeing when shot, without any witnesses supporting Officer Brown's story.[3] The trial revealed CNN had dishonestly reported the case and that multiple witnesses did in fact confirm Brown's side.[4]

-NBC went as far as to try and discredit surveillance footage of Brown robbing a store before the shooting, painting it as 'character assassination.'[5]

In summary, a number of ranking Democrats and major media organizations showed a deliberate agenda to distort the events of what had happened in Ferguson in order to incite racial hatred. There was no interest by these figures or media organizations in carefully examining the facts of the case, but as pointed out by Sheriff David Clarke, they acted like vultures eager to use the case for their own ends. While Ferguson does have its racial problems, the media and national figures including Obama, Holder, Sharpton, and Jackson irresponsibly used race baiting with utter disregard for the facts and evidence to incite rioting.

[b]Sources:[/b]

[1] http://www.usatoday.com...

http://abcnews.go.com...

[2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

[3] http://www.cnn.com...

http://www.cnn.com...

[4] http://www.washingtonpost.com...

[5] http://www.msnbc.com...
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tyleremery2383 2 years ago
tyleremery2383
I apologize for forfeiting the round. Finals preparation can be killer. However, I'm not using that as an excuse and I accept any loss of conduct points for it.

Thank you, Pro, for a good debate. You brought up some good points and I had fun debating you!
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
jak....... The racism comes mainly from the likes of you. Nothing I said is racist. Just observation. The al sharptons brought race into the picture. If this had gone bad for the cop, what would the race hustlers have said then? " Litrtle Mickey" caused all this on his own. We don't know if he was racist. Was it being a white cop that triggered his rage? We would have to have been around him before if that was the case.Darren Wilson had true fear for his life. Just picture a 300 pound man charging you with the intent on getting your gun. There is only time to react to stop this guy with any means necessary.And the only stopping " little Mickey " was with a gun.This was a righteous shooting, the grand jury got it right.It was an unrighteous reaction by the black community.
Posted by jakemg 2 years ago
jakemg
i want to make clear that i see that its the oppression of the police that has caused peaceful protest to escalate into riots. for reasons that I have explained why in the comments below, but i don't believe you, cheyennebodie can seem to respect that because of reason clearly linked to racism. so if you wish to take this out of the comments and challenge me to a debate so we can attempt to settle our differences.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
What does the police have to do with people burning and looting. Quit making excuses for those criminals. What did you want the police to do? There was a real threat that blacks and their sympathizers would get out of hand. Especially with the first accounts of what happened.The al sharptons and jesse Jackson's and eric holder's came out of the woodwork without knowing for sure what happened.Have they apologized for making something that was not there?Did eric holder use this for a reaching moment as chief law enforcement officer of America. " Do not rob stores, and if caught , do not try to attack a cop and take his gun".It will not end well for somebody. Fortunately the right person it did not end well.

I think white America is getting fed up with being blamed for blacks failing in life.We do not make black men have babies and walk away letting government support them.They even put a black man in the white house. All that did was reinforce you cannot compromise and vote because of skin color.
Posted by jakemg 2 years ago
jakemg
as this topic talks about, this isn't actually about the death of Micheal Brown. though i very doubt its because of "race baiting" the attorney general Eric Holder, and presidential adviser Al Sharpton cannot simply be blamed for making people raid and riot the town of Ferguson. what I see as what made this go from peaceful protest to the riots is the militarization of the police which has been in place since the policies of the 9/11 reaction. now that were pulling out of the middle east those policies need to be reviewed because there are causing more harm than good.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
About blacks not getting jobs.If they would speak proper English and pull their britches up past their underwear, they would stand a better chance of getting a job.I would never hire someone, white or black that talked and walked that jive nonsense.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Another thing. The Ferguson riots are more about al Sharpton and jesse Jackson, and now eric holder than anything else. And about a mother and father that did a lousy job of raising a responsible adult.You would never Dr. Ben Carson's mother's kids attacking a cop. They were raised better.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
ja....... The police are military. Just civilian military. If the police were using too much force then why is the only dead guy, the criminal ," little Mickey " brown?Now they started rioting before the evidence even came out about how bad this brown character was on that day. Did you not watch the video's of all those " nice " people getting in the faces of the cops and they had to just take it?

Out here in the heartland, where respect for law and order is high, we do not see these things. Only in the welfare state inner cities do they need a powerful police force.
Posted by jakemg 2 years ago
jakemg
what made Ferguson and st Louis a likely place for this type of event is that for a long time there (and all across the country) police militarization has been implemented and caused a swell of tension between police and civilians. is this a race issue? YES, but the reason this has grown as much as it has and the reason why this has not stayed peaceful is because of the oppression of a police service that has become far more strong then ever intended. the police service is supposed to ultimately protect public health; however that is not the job of the military, but when a police service is outfitted in the same fashion as a military service then the role will become changed physiologically and effect the performance of the police officers.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Those riots are the result of decades of blacks blaming " whitey" for their failures.And because most of those looting and burning are freeloaders and saw an opportunity to get more free stuff." Little" Mickey " is dead for one reason, he was a criminal that got out of hand.And because his parents did not instill in him respect for other people, especially white cops. That lack of upbringing cost him his life.The parents are to blame for his death and for the destruction going on now.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
tyleremery2383JzyehoshuaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture