The Instigator
Esiar
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
purpleduck
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

Is the God of Christianity and Islam the same God?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
purpleduck
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 639 times Debate No: 68145
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

Esiar

Con

Do a rebuttal in the first round.

The God of Christianity and Islam have a lot of similarities, but they are too fundamentally different to say they are the same God.

The God of Christianity is a trinity (Matthew 28:19, John 14, 1 John 5:7)
The God of Islam is a unitarian God (Sura 112)

In Christianity, Christ is the Son of God (1 John 4:15)
In Islam, Christ is not the Son of God (Sura 9:30)

In Christianity, Jesus was crucified (Mark 15:24)
In Islam, Jesus never died (Surah 4:157)

Those are a few examples.
purpleduck

Pro

Islam began on the Arabian Peninsula, when a merchant named Muhammad was supposedly approached by the angel Gabriel and told to start spreading the word of God. Now the angel Gabriel is present in both the Quran and in the Bible. In the Bible he appeared to the prophet Daniel and explained his various visions(Daniel 8:15-26, 9:21-27). He also appeared to Zecharias and to the virgin Mary and foretold the births of John the Baptist and Jesus. In the Quran, he is mentioned numerous times, such as Al-Baqara 2:97 and Al-Baqara 66:4, but most notably in the part where he appears to Muhammad and tells him what to do.


The Arabian Peninsula was also situated between two major and ever warring empires, the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire. The Byzantines were Christians and the Persians were Zoroastrians, so monotheism wasn't a new concept for the people living in the area, including Muhammad, who traveled a lot because he was a merchant. Therefore it is not far-fetched as to assert that Muhammad picked up on Christianity during his many travels into the Byzantine Empire and used it's concepts in his own religion.


In the Quran it says in Al-Baqara 2:163 "And your Allah is One Allah: There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful."


Whether you are a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim, Allah in Arabic means God. This line is also remarkably similar to one of the Bible's lines in Exodus 20:3 which says "You shall have no other gods before Me." The Quran also mentions Satan, for example in the line "O you People! Eat of what is on earth, Halal and pure, and do not follow the footsteps of the Satan; Indeed for he is to you an open enemy " (Al-Qu'ran 2:168), which suggests that Islam views Satan as a sort of a devil figure, much like how Christianity views Satan.


There is a line in Leviticus 11 that states


"Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed,

and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.".


The Quran contains the line:


"O ye who believe! Fulfil your obligations. Grazing livestock is made

lawful to you (for food) except that which is announced to you (herein),

game being unlawful when ye are on the pilgrimage."



What this essentially means is that both Christians and Muslims are only allowed to eat those who graze, or chew cud (same thing). These similarities don't stop here.

Bible

Leviticus 11:7

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed,

yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. "


Leviticus 11:8

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch;

they are unclean to you.


Quran

5:3

Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah's.



So the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible have very similar instructions for their individual followers. Now two supposed gods give very similar instructions and act in very similar ways, that tells you that those two gods were either raised under the same household or are the same god. But lets provide one more example:


Corinthians 11:6-10

For if a woman is not veiled, let her hair be cut off; but if it is a shame to a woman to have her hair cut off, let her be veiled.


Holy Quran 33:59

O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments (veil); this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


Now lets elaborate.


Islam believes that there were three main prophets of God, who are, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. Now if Islam had no relation to Christianity, its Holy Book would never mention Jesus, much less the angel Gabriel and Satan. Both the Quran and the Bible preach similar eating restrictions and hold similar values in terms of valuing God before everything else. The Quran also acknowledges the validity of many stories in the Bible such as the virgin birth of Christ, the story of Adam, and the story of Cain and Abel. So based on that we can assess that Islam and Christianity are related and are quite intertwined with each other. As such if Christianity were to be true, Islam must also be true or else it would be self contradicting. So in other words, if Christianity were to be true, either there are two Gods hanging out up in heaven who think extremely similarly and associate themselves with the exact same people or those two Gods are the same.


In response to my opponent's points, the Holy Trinity in Christianity is supposed to be one God in three people. Besides, Christianity is a monotheistic religion (supposedly), much like Islam is.

On my opponent's second point, not even the individual sects of Christianity can agree on anything, do you really expect Islam and Christianity to do so?

In Christianity, Christ was resurrected. Muslims as such might have saw his execution as a ruse.


Debate Round No. 1
Esiar

Con

You only showed examples of how the God of Islam and Christianity are similar, and never addressed the major differences I brought up. If Christianity is true, Islam is false, if Islam is true, Christianity is false, because they contradict each other. If Christianity is right, and Jesus is the Son of God, that makes Islam false because Islam teaches that God has no Son (Which Christianity teaches comes from an antichrist spirit). If Islam is true, and Jesus was never crucified, that makes Christianity false, because Christianity teaches thay Jesus was crucified.

They have similar attributes, but that doesn't make them the same God: Imagine two people tell about a guy named Jimmy.
One person says: Jimmy is 5 foot 7, 35 years old, has a wife and 3 children, is cheating on his wife, robs stores daily, and is lazy.
The second says: Jimmy is 5 foot 7, 35 years old, has a wife and 3 children, would never cheat, and is honest and hard working.
They have similar attributes, but they are not the same Jimmy because they contradict each other. Same with Islam and Christianity.

Christianity: The God of Abraham who brought the Torah through Moses the Prophet, who sent his Son Jesus do die on a Cross for sins & rise again, to give people eternal life. Anyone who denies the Father and Son comes from an antichrist spirit.

Islam: The God of Abraham who brought the Torah through Moses the Prophet, who sent Jesus who never claimed to be the Son of God, never died, and never rose again. God is not a Father, he has no Son, and he brought the Qur'an through Muhammad.

There can't be 2 Gods because what they say about the crucifixion contradict each other, and they can't be the same God because what they say about the crucifixion contradict each other.
purpleduck

Pro

My opponent only really stands on one point, which is Islam and Christianity dispute over one thing, and that is the life and death of Jesus Christ. He/she says that in Christianity Jesus was the Son of God and was crucified, and that in Islam Jesus was neither. Ok, fair enough. However, there are similar differences within Christianity, mainly in between it's some 30,000 sects.

Catholics believe that the Holy Trinity is one God, Mormons believe that the Holy Trinity are 3 separate entities, and Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is the Son of God but is not God and is not as good as God. Catholics believe that God speaks through religious authorities such as priests and the Pope, Mormons believe that the Scripture is the word of God, Protestants believe n personal spiritual enlightenment (this was after the first Great Awakening). Mormons don't believe in the original sin or hell, Calvinists believe that everyone is dipped in a vat of evil before being born because of original sin, Anglicans believe that the original sin came from the evil Nature of humans and was not Adam's fault. However, all of these factions of Christianity, despite clear differences, still worship the same God. Why wouldn't that extend to Islam as well?

Con makes a sort of analogy in which two guys named Jim have similar attributes but are not the same person. He says: "One person says: Jimmy is 5 foot 7, 35 years old, has a wife and 3 children, is cheating on his wife, robs stores daily, and is lazy.
The second says: Jimmy is 5 foot 7, 35 years old, has a wife and 3 children, would never cheat, and is honest and hard working."
Okay, fair enough. However, it is still possible that these two Jimmys are the same person. Maybe the first person knows that Jimmy is cheating and the second is oblivious. Maybe the first person knows Jimmy robs banks but the second one doesn't or has turned a blind eye. Maybe the first person's standard of hard work is different from the second person so the first person sees Jimmy as lazy while the second person sees Jimmy as hard working. Therefore, it is very possible that these two Jimmys are the same person. Now that I have stolen your analogy, why don't I use it to prove my point. Multiple people have multiple takes on God and religious practices. A lot of the Bible and the Quran is largely hearsay, so there are bound to be multiple interpretations of various events and/or people. For example, Muslims don't actually believe in the 72 virgins because that came from hearsay. Some Christians think that when the Virgin Mary died she was carried into heaven by angels, others don't because that was made up more than 500 years after Jesus's death. The point is, it is very possible for multiple people to believe in the same deity while having multiple different perspectives and opinions on that deity.

Again, the Bible and the Quran MUST both be true or both be false, due the plethora of similarities pointed out in my previous argument. Both the Quran and the Bible say that Satan is evil, if one was true and one was false, a big fat paradox would be created.

http://anglicansonline.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.gotquestions.org...
http://www.christianpost.com...
https://www.alislam.org...
http://www.gasl.org...;
Debate Round No. 2
Esiar

Con

"Again, the Bible and the Quran MUST both be true or both be false, due the plethora of similarities pointed out in my previous argument. Both the Quran and the Bible say that Satan is evil, if one was true and one was false, a big fat paradox would be created."

This is impossible. One says one thing and another says the opposite. If they are both right, Muhammad is and isn't a prophet at the same time, and Jesus was and wasn't crucified at the same time. No amount of similar parts can change the parts that contradict each other. If Christianity is true Islam is false, and if Islam is true Christianity is false, because the core teachings contradict each other.

There's no point in debating this anymore because it is so obvious: Muhammad cannot be true and false at the same time.
purpleduck

Pro

"There's no point in debating this anymore because it is so obvious: Muhammad cannot be true and false at the same time."

I will take this time to remind Con that it doesn't matter how obvious it is to you, until someone else thinks it's obvious you have not yet won.

My opponent still stands on exactly the same argument about Jesus despite that fact it has already been countered. He also has failed to refute anything I have said up to this point, choosing to dismiss all of them because he has decided that only the Jesus part is remotely important. Well, the thing is, until you justify that decision, simply trivializing all the evidence I have provided is baseless and self-defeating, as it does not make yourself look very believable.

I will re-emphasize my main points. The Bible and the Quran as extremely similar in both the ways it gives advice on how to live, who followers should worship, and who to condemn. They have their differences, but the factions within Christianity also have differences, as stated in my previous argument, yet it is acknowledged that all 30,000 factions of Christianity believe in the same god. Since the Islam and Christianity are likewise similar, can we not same the same for those two religions?

Con thinks that Jesus' life and death is a "core teaching", and that on this point Christianity and Islam contradict each other. It is true that they do contradict, however, I would assert that the Book of Genesis is more important than Jesus because without Genesis, there is no Original Sin, and Jesus would have died for no reason. Both the Quran and the Bible acknowledge the existence of Adam, his expulsion from the Garden of Eden, and the Original Sin. I cannot say the same, however, for the factions within Christianity. The Pope has openly supported the theory of evolution, which nullifies the Book of Genesis because Genesis says God created man first and evolution asserts that micro organisms came first. More fundamental factions like Jehovah's Witnesses completely deny evolution and say that Genesis is completely factual, literally or figuratively(mostly literally).

Can the Pope and Jehovah's Witnesses both be right? No. Do they both believe in the same god? Yes.

The point is, textual differences does not mean that the religion as a whole cannot believe in the same God. We are not arguing that the Quran and the Bible are exactly the same. What we are arguing here is whether or not Muslims and Christians believe in the same god. Because the individual holy texts are so similar in that they acknowledge the same figures such as Satan and the Angel Gabriel, it can be deduced that both texts are talking about the same god. Not only that, Allah seems like a distinctly Islamic term, but Allah means God in Arabic whether you are a Christian or a Jew. I acknowledge the textual differences, but that does not mean that Islam and Christianity do not worship the same god, as Christians themselves dispute over Biblical texts yet worship the same god. Since the only thing my opponent stands on is ONE textual difference, he has failed to disprove anything for the reasons above.
Debate Round No. 3
Esiar

Con

1. It's more than one textual difference.

The God of Islam has no children.
The God of Christianity does (Not like a human does).

The God of Islam is one alone.
The God of Christianity is three in one.

Islam teaches that Christians are going to Hell if they don't repent (Sura 5:72).
Christianity teaches that Christians are going to Heaven (Romans 10:9), and that Muslims are antichrist (1 John 2:22), and will go to Hell if they don't repent (Revelation 21:8)

Islam teaches that certain people are the worst of creatures (Sura 98:6)
Christianity teaches that God shows no partiality (Romans 2:11)

2. You said, "It is true that they do contradict, however, I would assert that the Book of Genesis is more important than Jesus because without Genesis, there is no Original Sin, and Jesus would have died for no reason.".

Jesus is more important: Genesis only says how sin got here, but one could learn about sin elsewhere in the Bible. One doesn't need to read the book of Genesis to go to Heaven, but one needs to believe the Gospel to go to Heaven, which makes Jesus more important.

3. I'd put it this way, say there is 2 people:

One is called The Person - He has many children, he loves everyone and would die for them: He has a friend named David, a friend named Gabe, a twin named Joshua, and a twin named Agiop. He and his Twins are the bosses of a large company, and Joshua is on a work vacation, and he is going to come back after giving signs of his return. He will fire every bad employee, and give a raise to every good employee (he also personally knows every good employee as a friend, and he has an enemy named Kyle that is trying to ruin his company: He will get arrested soon)

One is named Man - He has no children, he doesn't love everyone: He has a friends named David, Gabe, Joshua, and Nathan. He has no siblings. He's the boss of a large company: He knows none of his employees as friends, but that he is the boss and they are the workers. He tricked everyone that Joshua died, and didn't say he actually didn't die until 6 years later. He says, that Joshua and Nathan's son will come after he gives signs of their return, and that aftet that he will fire every bad employee, and give a raise to every good employee (There's also a guy named Kyle trying to ruin the company, who will get arrested soon.)

You could say that The Human (Yahweh/The Lord) and Man (Allah/God) are similar, but there is too much a difference. There are both people named Kyle and Gabe, but the people named Joshua play a different role, and The Human and Man have different personalities...
purpleduck

Pro

My opponent's previous argument is one of the most perfect examples of quote mining I have ever seen. There are so many inconsistencies in both the Quran and the Bible that it is beyond comprehension. Here are a few:

My opponent says all Christians will go to hell according to the Quran. The exact line from Sura 5:72 is this:

"They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribe partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers."

Fair enough. However, the Quran also says this in Quran 2:62:

"Those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve."

and in Quran 5:69:

"Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve."

Take note that Sura 5:72 does not explicitly state the word "Christians", while the examples I provided do.


My opponent says that according to Romans 10:9, all Christians will go to heaven. The exact line is this:

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Well the thing is, the Bible has two passages which honestly confuse me quite a bit on what the definition of "save" is. These are the passages:

"No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13)

and it's contradicting counterpart:

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)

So since the Bible clearly states that only certain people have actually been to heaven, what exactly does "save" mean?


My opponent says that Islam is, in essence biased towards certain people according to Sura 98:6. Yes, Sura98:6 does in effect say that. However, there are other contradictory passages in Islam. The first is a quote from prophet Muhammad:

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor does a black have any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

The Quran also says something similar:

"O Mankind: We created you from a male and a female; and made you into tribes and nations that you may get to know each other. and verily, most honored before God is the most virtuous." (Quran 49:13)


My opponent says that according to Romans 2:11, God shows no partiality. However, Romans 9:18 (ironically in the same book) says:

"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."

Which essentially means God has mercy on whoever he wants. Not exactly the model of impartiality.


The bottom line of all this is to show that both the Quran and the Bible contradict themselves. A lot. So if we base everything on textual evidence, we find ourselves making this weird paradox in which neither the Bible nor the Quran can be true or false. However, does that stop the followers from believing in the same God? No.


My opponent's analogy about "the Person" and "the Man" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as it seems more of an opinion that a fact on what the supposed gods of Christianity and Islam are like.

To summarize my points, lets first assume the the god of Islam and the god of Christianity are different. Now lets look at the facts:

1.Adam was kicked out of the Garden of Eden for the same reason in both the Bible and the Quran
2.Both the Bible and the Quran acknowledge the evil of Satan
3.In both books, Cain and Abel are the sons of Adam and Eve(unnamed in the Quran)
4.In both books, God only accepts sacrifices from Abel and not from Cain
5.In both books, God flooded Earth and told Noah to build an ark to save himself and two of each "clean" animal(with slight variations)
6.In both books, Abraham is promised a son by God and is told to sacrifice that very son soon after.
7.Both books contain the story Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah
8.Both books contain narratives of Joseph
9.Both books contain the various adventures of Moses
10.Both books contain the killing of the rich Israelite Korah/Koran
11.Both books contain the crowing of Saul by the prophet Samuel
12.Both books contain the story of Mary
13.Both books acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah and performed several cool tricks such as heal blindness and leprosy.

Read the list and draw your own conclusions.




http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
https://www.biblegateway.com...
http://infidels.org...
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://biblehub.com...
http://biblehub.com...

Debate Round No. 4
Esiar

Con

1. It just shows that the Qur'an contradicts itself.

2. "Save" means to be saved from Hell. Being born again.

3. Again, the similarities don't wipe away the differences. Here's a simple way to show that it isn't the same God: The God of Christianity is Jesus and in Islam Jesus is only a prophet of God.
purpleduck

Pro

"It just shows that the Quran contradicts itself."

If you actually read what I wrote you would see that I pointed out contradictions in both the Quran AND the Bible. The point of doing so is to show that despite the Bible contradicting itself, it does not stop all Christians from believing in the same god. Same case with the Quran, it's contradictions don't all Muslims from believing in the same god either.

""Save" means to be saved from Hell. Being born again."

So, unless I'm misinterpreting this, Christians believe in reincarnation. And do not believe that people actually go to Heaven. That's new.

"Again, the similarities don't wipe away the differences."

True, similarities don't wipe away differences. However, textual differences have never stopped anybody from believing in the same god as someone else. Take Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. They disagree on a lot of stuff, but they still believe in the same god. Same with Puritans and Quakers. Same with Catholics and Protestants. They all have pretty major differences, but those differences don't stop them from believing in the same god. Why can't we extend this to Muslims?

"Here's a simple way to show that it isn't the same God: The God of Christianity is Jesus and in Islam Jesus is only a prophet of God."

Well the thing is, not all Christians believe that Jesus is God. Jehovah's Witnesses as mentioned earlier believe that Jesus is holy, but not as holy as God. That implies that Jesus and God are two different entities. Do Jehovah's Witnesses and you (I'm assuming you're Christian from the way you defend it) believe in the same god? Yes. The Bible itself says that Jesus went to Heaven. If God is technically already chilling out in Heaven, how did he ascend to Heaven at the same time? Not all Christians think that Jesus=God, but that doesn't stop them from worshipping the same god. Again, why does that not apply to Muslims? I don't understand.

Vote pro!

http://www.christiananswers.net...
http://www.gotquestions.org...
http://www.patheos.com...
http://www.gotquestions.org...
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
They don't totally agree. The OT has the Law , while the NT has grace.
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Esiar
And, in terms of the contradiction in 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13, this answers it: http://www.apologeticspress.org...
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Esiar
The Jewish scriptures agree with Christianity.
The Islamic scriptures disagree with Christianity.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
Of course, most every argument made here against Islam could also be made against Judaism. And yet as Christians, we accept the Jewish scriptures as our own as well. So if we say the Jews worship the same God, then why don't we say the same thing about Muslims?
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Esiar
Okay then. :-)
Posted by NoMagic 2 years ago
NoMagic
Don't abandon the debate. It has been a good one to this point. Both making good arguments. Presently I'm not sure who I would vote for.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
EsiarpurpleduckTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con really drops ALL of Pro's case in the final round. In a debate, if you drop an argument, it is a concession that the argument is true. On the flip side, shotgun argumentation is frowned upon (though Pro didn't do this). Pro provides a significant wealth of sources, reasoning, scriptural evidence, won him the debate. Con made a lot of assertions like "the debate is over", yet he offers minimal evidence supporting that position. Con argued as though he didn't need proof, whereas Pro argued like proof was *required*, and it is. So Pro obviously wins... Con also claims Christians support reincarnation, which is obviously incorrect... Con presents weak evidence, distortions of truth, and sometimes--either on purpose or inadvertently--lies about what religions believe. Pro wins.