The Instigator
T_parkour
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ShadowKingStudios
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

Is the NIV bible satanic?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
ShadowKingStudios
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/26/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 972 times Debate No: 58224
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (2)

 

T_parkour

Con

Apparently, a common belief is that the New International Version of the bible is satanic. First round is for acceptance and Pro's opening argument. Burden of proof is on Pro, as he/she is making the positive claim.

I look forward to a good debate and I thank Pro in advance for accepting.
ShadowKingStudios

Pro

Premise:
The NIV translation of the Hebrew & Greek Text (Scriptures) has been Satanically Influence to be Inaccurate and Subtly Misleading.

Arguments:
1.Satan is the author of Confusion & Lies
2.Being a Confounder & Liar, Satan has influenced human to misrepresent the Words & Messages of God to Humanity
3.The NIV bears the 3 Major Satanic Markers of the Devil (a.) the Lie, (b.) the Deception; (c.) the Omission/Removal

Definitions:
a.Lie is the "opposite of truth." Truth is factual & apparent. Lie is falsehood & vague.
b.Deception is the "the direct misleading of a truism, maxim, or validity."
c.Omission is "the leaving out of information (regardless of its degree)." Removal is "the taking out of information (regardless of etc. etc.)."

Opening Argument:
To consider something or someone satanic, you must apply a measure of accounting "satanic attributes" of Satan to the subject in review. The doctrine of Satan aka the Devil (and according to "some" Christian circles) aka Lucifer has an origin rooted in Judea-Christian theology and to a degree Islamic study. The roots of Satan being primarily these two religions restrict arguments to Judaism & Christianity, the Torah & the Holy Bible. My examination of Satan and satanic attributes shall be measured from these sources. I will demonstrate through Biblical hermeneutics that Satan is the spiritual force, the instigator, the chief author of the NIV's inaccuracy & misleading ploys. I will highlight the satanic attributes revealed through the English translation of the Scriptures that point back to an influential spiritual element, a spiritual author of lies, deception, and omission.

Plea to Judges:
I humbly say, my arguments are not set forth to "force" you or "convince" you to believe in the "integrity" of the Bible or the "existence" of Satan. I am only demonstrating to you--through a Christian theological standpoint--the satanic attributes of Satan can be circled in the text of the NIV. My arguments are not for theological & spiritual propagation but only for scholarly analysis of a religious topic in a secular debating forum. Not for preaching, testifying, or fellowshipping.

Closing Opening Statement:
"If the scholar feels that he must know everything about any topic, he is in trouble--and will not publish
with a clear conscience."
--Kenneth L. Pike
Debate Round No. 1
T_parkour

Con

Firstly, I would like to thank Pro again for accepting this debate. I would also like to apologize for my extreme delay. My mom and I are moving in a couple days, so it's a little hectic.

I have not seen any examples of lies or deception in the NIV bible, as the message is the same throughout many bibles. As for omissions, I understand that the NIV bible removes over 64,000 words and several whole verses. However, there are no specific doctrines or beliefs that hinge on these words and verses. Paraphrasing also solves the problem of the missing words. People in biblical times, whether historians or storytellers or just ordinary people, did not worry about memorizing every single nit-picky detail of a story, as long as the major parts of the story were there. I do not see why modern translations of the bible such as the NIV are any different.

Let's use an example: the resurrection of Jesus. The gospels each have different accounts of who exactly was at the empty tomb, but the gist of the story remains the same. Someone went to the tomb in which Jesus was buried, found it empty, and went to tell others.

Once again I apologize for the delay, and I now hand the podium over to Pro.
ShadowKingStudios

Pro

Sources:
NKJV; one website.
Proving:
1.Satan is the author of Confusion & Lies

Mark 4:15
"And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts."
Satan is the one who convinces you to deny in your heart the words of God.

Luke 22:3
"Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve."
Is this literal physical possession or figurative possession? Either one, the end result is Satan influenced Judas.

Acts 5:3
"But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?'"
Is this literal physical possession or figurative possession? In practical terms, we recognize it to be influence coming from Satan aka satanic influences.

2 Corinthians 2:11
"...lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices."
Satan has [plural] devices. Naturally, if Satan is evil, the devices are evil. So Satan has multiple ways of influencing people and some people aren't ignorant of what these devices are.

2 Corinthians 11:14
"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."
And no wonder, eh? So the 1st Century Christians commonly knew Satan can transform (masquerade, cloak, disguise) himself as an angel [messenger]1 of light (good). So if he can pretend to be a messenger of good, couldn't he (through his evil devices) influence the hearts of Christians to do something contrary to God's request, order, mandate, etc.?

2 Thessalonians 2:9
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders..."
Here we see Satan working (manipulating, plotting, scheming) the rise of the lawless one with all his satanic power, deceptive signs, and lying wonders. So if Satan can orchestrate the rise & reign of the so-called Antichrist (lawless one) then is it difficult for him, masquerading as an angel of light, to dupe a few humans into misrepresenting a few words of the original Hebrew & Greek text of the Bible into English?

Revelation 2:9
"I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."
A synagogue is the Jewish equivalent of a Christian church. Both are organizations. So Satan, as a fraudulent angel of light, can (through his evil devices, with all power, signs, and lying wonders) influence a Christian and/or Jewish organization to do his bidding.

Luke 4:3
"And the devil said to Him, 'If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.'"
Satan quotes Scriptures. So by that standard, is it impossible for Satan to misrepresent Scriptures to a means that justifies his end goal?

John 8:44
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."
Here we see Satan is the father of the lie. So according to Christian orthodoxy, Satan is the originator of the lie. A Lie is a Deception and a Deception usually bears a direct (or degree of an) Omission of truth. So a satanic influence is rooted in a lie, deception, omission of truth or removal of truth.

NKJV:
https://www.biblegateway.com...

This concludes proving Argument 1: Satan is the author of Confusion & Lies. In R3, I will prove Arguments 2 & 3 while at the same time dismantling Con's R2 & R3 statements.
Debate Round No. 2
T_parkour

Con

T_parkour forfeited this round.
ShadowKingStudios

Pro

Sources:

KJV; NIV; various websites.

Proving:

2.Being a Confounder & Liar, Satan has influenced human to misrepresent the Words & Messages of God to Humanity
3.The NIV bears the 3 Major Satanic Markers of the Devil (a.) the Lie, (b.) the Deception; (c.) the Omission/Removal

While Dismantling Cons:

However, there are no specific doctrines or beliefs that hinge on these words and verses.

Matt. 18:11, "For the Son of Man is come to save that which was lost."

The NIV passage says, "!!!". Well, actually the NIV passage is completely missing! A satanic removal. Why? One of Christianity's core beliefs, the very foundation of eternal life, is Jesus came to earth to preach a doctrine of salvation and this salvation involves eternal life with God. The NIV has removed this doctrine, proving Con's statement in error.

Salvation/Eternal Life; 1st Paragraph, 3rd & 4th Line Down http://www.infoplease.com...

I Cor. 5:7

"…Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us (KJV)."

"…Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed (NIV)."

John 6:47
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life (KJV)."

"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life (NIV)."

Two more satanic attempts to hide by omission the doctrine of Jesus's sacrifice to save us and grant us eternal life. The salvation doctrine is the foundation of Christianity, without it Christianity has no purpose. I'd like to add; the latter example cannot fall under Con's paraphrasing claim because each passage depicts a completely different meaning. One claims you have to believe in everything about Jesus to get everlasting life; the other claims simply believing grants you everlasting life. It doesn't say what. And according to our former high school grammar lessons, didn't we learn that the latter sentence is an incomplete one? There is no subject just a predicate. And every sentence, in order to be whole, with meaning, must have a subject & predicate. This proves only 3 possibilities, The NIV translators:

  1. 1. Were lazy & careless about grammatical completeness;
  2. 2. Were English grammar illiterates;
  3. 3. Were satanically influenced to omit the crucial Jesus-angle.

Paraphrasing also solves the problem of the missing words.

The NIV Luke 9:56 passage reads: "And they went to another village." If we paraphrase this, we get some people went to another village. So do the missing words, and paraphrasing, rectify this: "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Again we see another satanic influence to remove the doctrine of literal eternal life & salvation.

There are many more examples, but for brevity I didn’t add them in text. http://www.nowtheendbegins.com...

Richard Bacon breaks down "Accuracy of Translation and the NIV" by Robert Martin is Professor of Biblical Theology in Trinity Ministerial Academy.

Bacon wrote: "The problem with paraphrasing again is that it allows too much latitude to the translator to do our thinking and meditating for us. …in which the cadence and beauty of the original text is changed." [Click link for source; scroll down to Point 7] http://av1611.com...

In conclusion, we see the NIV, written by humans, misrepresents the Words & Messages of God to Humanity (Argument 2) by omitting selected words that emphasis the doctrine of eternal life & salvation through Jesus and removing entire doctrinal-based passages. We have seen through the above examples that the NIV has been satanically influenced by Satan and that the text bears evidence of the 3 most profound markers of the Devil’s touch (Argument 3).

The Lie: There is only One Son of God.

"JOHN 3:16: The NIV reads, 'For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE AND ONLY SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.' Jesus was NOT 'the one and only son' - Adam is called the 'son of God' in Luke 3:38, there are 'sons of God' in Job 1:6 and Christians are called 'sons of God' in Phil 2:15, I John 3:2- but Jesus was the 'ONLY BEGOTTEN SON'! By removing the critical word 'BEGOTTEN' - The NIV perverts John 3:16 into a LIE! The NIV does the same in John 1:14, 1:18, and 3:18." http://www.av1611.org...

The Deception: Satan is Christ.

"Isaiah 14:14 reveals Satan's grandest desire, 'I will be like the most High.' And with a little [subtle] perversion - the NIV in Isaiah 14:12 grants Satan's wish!

"ISAIAH 14:12: The KJB reads, 'How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning!. . .' The NIV PERversion reads, 'How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR, son of the dawn. . .' The NIV change 'Lucifer' to 'MORNING STAR'.

"BUT WAIT. . . I thought the Lord Jesus Christ was the MORNING STAR?

"Doesn't Revelation 22:16 say, 'I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and MORNING STAR'." (SAME SOURCE AS PREVIOUS)

The Omission: Believing in Jesus is required for Salvation through Eternal Life.

For Matthew 18:11, the NIV translators completely omitted this passage which teaches the doctrine that Christ alone grants Salvation through Eternal Life.

I have effectively demonstrated the error in Con's claim, "...[there are no] examples of lies or deception in the NIV bible, as the message is the same throughout many bibles." Other than the Jehovah’s Witnesses' New World Translation text, this is false. The NIV bears lies & deceptions, with the salvation/eternal life doctrine removed, the message isn't the same with other Bibles. One of Con's own admissions completely implodes his entire argument while validating my own.

Con: "the NIV bible removes over 64,000 words and several whole verses...."

Revelation 21:24

NIV: "The nations will walk by its light..."

NKJV: "And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light..." (emphasis mine throughout).

NKJV: "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy [Revelation], God shall take away his part from the Book of Life (Rev. 22:19)

Against God's warning, the Devil's satanically influenced NIV translators blatantly removed the salvation through Jesus equals eternal life-based doctrine from Revelation and God wrote doing so, "[I will remove those] from the Book of [Eternal] Life...."

"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."
--Albert Einstein

Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
I enjoyed it too. Come up with another subject and we can go at it again when you're ready.
Posted by T_parkour 2 years ago
T_parkour
I would like to apologize for forfeiting the last round. As I mentioned, things have been a bit hectic the past week or so because of the move. I really did mean to post my argument though, I just never got around to it.

I would also like to thank Pro once again for accepting this debate and bringing forth strong arguments. I really enjoyed this debate, and I hope you did too.
Posted by T_parkour 2 years ago
T_parkour
It may not be a common belief overall, but I'm finding that a lot of Southern Baptists believe this. I would believe it too if my pastor pounded his fist on the podium and shouted it.
Posted by T_parkour 2 years ago
T_parkour
Thank you! Finally someone who's not gonna use ridiculous logic for this!
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
I think I'll take up the challenge. I'm not here for a flawless record of wins but to hone my intelligence.
Posted by 5taff 2 years ago
5taff
THATS NOT A COMMON BELIEF. A common belief is that it has many errors in translation from the Greek and Hebrew language into ole flush and that they omit verses which are all true as I have studied this topic.
Posted by Malacoda 2 years ago
Malacoda
I don't think this is a very common belief.
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Do you have to have an Instagram account to view it?
Posted by T_parkour 2 years ago
T_parkour
Feel free to look at the actual debate on Instagram. Just search for a user called @baptistforchrist and look at the "New International Perversion" and "Why Would Anyone Use the NIV?" Pictures.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
You're welcome. Funny how people will decry even their religious neighbors as evil. The NIV might be unorthodox, I dunno, but it's certainly pro-God.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
T_parkourShadowKingStudiosTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Neither side presented much of an argument; Conduct to PRO due to the forfeit.
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
T_parkourShadowKingStudiosTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, plus incoherent arguments