The Instigator
AskMeAboutIslam
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Is the Quran the word of god

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
AskMeAboutIslam
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,136 times Debate No: 23758
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)

 

AskMeAboutIslam

Pro

Who authored the Quran? Someone must have produced it! After all, how many desert men have stood up in the history of man and given the world a book like the Quran? The book has amazing details of past nations, prophets, and religions as well as accurate scientific information unavailable at the time. What was the source of all this? If we were to deny the divine origin of the Quran, we are left with only a few possibilities:

- The Prophet Muhammad authored it himself.

- He took it from someone else. In this case, he either took it from a Jew or a Christian or one of the foreigners in Arabia. The Meccans did not bother to accuse him of having taken it from one of them.

A brief response from God is:

"And they say, ‘Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon.' Say, [O Muhammad], ‘It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful.'" (Quran 25:5-6)

It was well known to his detractors that Muhammad, who was raised among them, never learned how to read or write from the time of his birth. They knew whom he befriended and where he had traveled; they acknowledged his integrity and honesty by calling him ‘Al-Ameen,' the Reliable, the Trustworthy, the Honest.[1] Only in their revulsion against his preaching did they accuse him – and then it was anything they could dream up: He was accused of being a sorcerer, a poet and even an imposter! They could not make up their minds. God says:

"Look how they strike for you comparisons; but they have strayed, so they cannot [find] a way." (Quran 17:47)

Simply, God is aware of what is in the heavens and the earth, He knows the past and the present, and reveals the truth to His prophet.

Could Muhammad Have Authored It?
It is impossible that Muhammad could have authored the Quran due to the following reasons:

First, several occasions presented themselves where he could have fabricated revelation. For example, after the first revelation came, people awaited to hear more, but the Prophet did not receive anything new for months. The Meccans began making fun of him, ‘His Lord has abandoned him!' This continued until the 93rd chapter, Ad-Doha, was revealed. The Prophet could have compiled something and presented it as the latest revelation to end the mockery, but he did not. Also, at one point during his prophethood, some of the hypocrites accused his beloved wife Aisha of being unchaste. The Prophet could have easily fabricated something to free her of blame, but he waited for many excruciating days, all spent in pain, mockery, and anguish, until revelation came from God freeing her from the accusation.

Second, there is internal evidence within the Quran that Muhammad was not its author. Several verses criticized him, and were on occasion strongly worded. How can an imposter prophet blame himself when it may run him into the danger of losing the respect, perhaps following, of his followers? Here are some examples:

"O Prophet! Why do you prohibit [yourself from] what God has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And God is Forgiving and Merciful." (Quran 66:1)

"…while you concealed within yourself that which God is to disclose and you feared the people, while God has more right that you fear Him.." (Quran 33:43)

"It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire." (Quran 9:113)

"But as for he who came to you striving [for knowledge] while he fears [God], from him you are distracted. No! Indeed, they [these verses] are a reminder." (Quran 80:8-11)

If he were to hide anything, he would have hid these verses, but he recited them faithfully.

"And he [Muhammad] is not a withholder of [knowledge of] the unseen. And it [the Quran] is not the word of a devil, expelled [from the heavens]. So where are you going? It is nothing but a reminder to the worlds." (Quran 81:24-27)

The Prophet is cautioned, perhaps warned, in the following verses:

"Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you. And do not be an advocate for the deceitful. And seek forgiveness of God. Indeed, God is ever Forgiving and Merciful. And do not argue on behalf of those who deceive themselves. Indeed, God loves not the one who is a habitually sinful deceiver. They conceal [their evil intentions and deeds] from the people, but they cannot conceal [them] from God, and He is with them [in His knowledge] when they spend the night in such as He does not accept of speech. And God ever is encompassing of what they do,. Here you are – those who argue on their behalf in [this] worldly life – but who will argue with God for them on the Day of Resurrection, or who will [then] be their representative? And whoever does a wrong or wrongs himself but then seeks forgiveness of God will find God Forgiving and Merciful. And whoever earns [i.e., commits] a sin only earns it against himself. And God is ever Knowing and Wise. But whoever earns an offense or a sin and then blames it on an innocent [person] has taken upon himself slander and manifest sin. And if it was not for the favor of God upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And God has revealed to you the Book and wisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of God upon you been great." (Quran 4:105-113)

These verses explain a situation in which a man from the Muslim inhabitants of Medina stole a piece of armor and hid it in the property of his Jewish neighbor. When the owners of the armor caught up with him he denied any wrongdoing, and the armor was discovered with the Jewish man. He, however, pointed to his Muslim neighbor, also denying his involvement in the crime. The people from the Muslim's tribe went to the Prophet to plead on his behalf, and the Prophet began to incline towards them till the above verses were revealed clearing the Jewish man of wrongdoing. All this despite the Jew's rejection of Muhammad's prophethood! The verses instructed Prophet Muhammad himself not to side with the deceitful! The verses:

"…and do not be an advocate for the deceitful and seek forgiveness of God…and if it was not for the favor of God upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you."

If Muhammad himself authored the Quran, thus being a lying imposter, he would have made sure that there was nothing in existence which could jeopardize the gaining of followers and supporters. The fact that the Quran, on various occasions, reprimands the Prophet in certain issues in which he had made in incorrect judgment is in itself a proof that it was not authored by him.
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

To clarify, this debate was sent as a challenge to me specifically and I accepted. My opponent is making a positive assertion, therefore has the burden of proof in this debate. He must prove that the Quran is the word of God. In other words, he must prove that God either literally wrote the Quran, or directly influenced the Quran through Divine Inspiration. Keep in mind that Pro must therefore prove that God exists in the first place, which is problematic to say the least. We should not and cannot automatically assume God's existence for the purpose of this debate for obvious reasons.

Pro asserts that either the prophet Muhammad authored the Quran himself, or he took the ideas from someone else. He then cites a "brief response from God" and lists the Quran as the source of this quote. Of course this is completely fallacious as it uses circular logic: It quotes the Quran as describing the word of God, when in fact proving that the word of God is found in Quran is what my opponent is trying to do in the first place. This quote should be discounted. Similarly so should all quotes that use the Quran to validate itself and/or its message as being God-given.

[[ REBUTTAL ]]

Pro's main argument is that it is impossible for Muhammad to have authored the Quran. He cites the following reasons:

1) Several occasions presented themselves where he could have fabricated revelation... The Meccans began making fun of him... The Prophet could have compiled something and presented it as the latest revelation to end the mockery, but he did not. Also, at one point during his prophethood, some of the hypocrites accused his beloved wife Aisha of being unchaste. The Prophet could have easily fabricated something to free her of blame, but he waited for many excruciating days, all spent in pain, mockery, and anguish, until revelation came from God freeing her from the accusation.

You'll notice that none of this provides one shred of evidence whatsoever that the Quran is the word of God. All it proves is that Muhammad did not lie and say that he had received a divine message under certain circumstances when he could have to save his image. Pro may argue that if Muhammad didn't lie when it was convenient for him to do so, that there would be no reason for him to lie when it was not convenient for him to do so. However just because I might not lie in the future doesn't mean that I haven't lied in the past. Further Muhammad may have been well-intentioned but mistaken about his alleged message.

2) There is internal evidence within the Quran that Muhammad was not its author. Several verses criticized him, and were on occasion strongly worded. How can an imposter prophet blame himself when it may run him into the danger of losing the respect, perhaps following, of his followers?

Just because the author reflected upon his own and/or human weakness in general does not mean that the book was written by God. I am capable of seeing my own flaws and the flaws of others as applicable to my own sense of morality; this does not prove that if I write something condemning myself, that I myself am not actually writing it or that the thoughts being reflected aren't my own. Pro is saying the fact that Muhammad recognized his own failures or mistakes PROVES that he did not write it. That is simply not so.

3) If Muhammad himself authored the Quran... he would have made sure that there was nothing in existence which could jeopardize the gaining of followers and supporters. The fact that the Quran, on various occasions, reprimands the Prophet in certain issues in which he had made in incorrect judgment is in itself a proof that it was not authored by him.

This is the exact same argument I just previously negated in #2. Keep in mind that the Bible also does not portray Jesus, allegedly God incarnate, as being all-good either. For instance, he got angry and flipped tables in the temple [1]. Highlighting Muhammad's flaws was used for a specific purpose to teach a lesson about humanity and humility; however, it doesn't prove that Muhammad himself didn't write the Quran.

Thus far we can see that Pro has not proven that the Quran is the word of God.

Now I will try to make some arguments as to why we should believe the Quran ISN'T the word of God.

[[ ARGUMENTS ]]

1) For one thing, we have no absolute proof that God exists. There is more proof for Muhammad's human existence than there is for God's hypothetical, supernatural one. Therefore, it is more reasonable to assume that Muhammad rather than God authored the Quran.

2) The Quran contains some mistakes. This would make sense considering Muhammad was not a very well informed theologian when he authored the book. Like the Bible, the Quran contains factual errors including misinterpretations of other monotheistic faiths. These websites outline some of those mistakes, includes the traditional Muslim defense of those mistakes, and then a scholar's interpretation of the mistakes [2, 3]. The point here is that a book authored from God should be mistake-free. After all, that is one reason Muslims say that the Bible cannot be the word of God. Keep in mind that the Bible and Quran contradict in certain areas, despite all authors claiming to have been "divinely inspired." Who should we believe and why?

3) Pro ignores the fact that the Quran largely "borrows" from Christian and Jewish mythology (which in turn borrow from Pagan and other mythology). Pro will say that during the time of Muhammad there were no bibles written in Arabic, and that Muhammad was illiterate. However everyone knows that teaching through word of mouth was the number one way messages were passed down during times before the printing press. Muhammad heard many details regarding Christian and Jewish Scripture from his Christian wife Kadijah and her cousin Waraqa; her uncle Waraqa was a monk. Muslims don't deny that Muhammad used to visit them and hear biblical accounts. Surely those messages were infused into the Quran; that's why they share so many similarities. It is dishonest for Pro to say that Muhammad couldn't have had outside influences regarding what he wrote down in the Quran.

[[ Sources ]]

[1] Matthew 21:12-13
[2] http://www.bible.ca...
[3] http://www.faithfreedom.org...



Debate Round No. 1
AskMeAboutIslam

Pro

Thank You gabrielle for your arguments. However your request that I need to first proof that God exist is not the discussion of this debate. I feel if i started debating on that we would not get around to debate on why the Quran is the word of God.

"The Quran contains some mistakes."

This is just an assumption that because the Bible has mistakes the Quran does also. You need to be more specific to what these mistakes are.

"misinterpretations of other monotheistic faiths"

Just because it disagrees with some viewpoints of other monotheistic faiths, doesn't mean its not from God.

In this Round I will be using the QURAN'S CHALLENGE TO HUMANITY- A MIRACLE

In the following verses Allah has challenged the whole of mankind to try and produce a single chapter like the Qur'an. This challenge, which has remained unmet, captivated the minds of the Arabs at the time of revelat-ion. They rationally assessed that if an Arab cannot challenge the Qur'an and nor could a non-Arab, then the only source of the Qur'an is the Creator. The Qur'an states:

"If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our Messenger, then produce one chapter like it, call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful." Surah al-Baqarah (The Heifer) 2: 23.

"Or do they say: "He (Prophet Muhammad, ) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recitation like it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful." Surah at-Toor (The Mount) 52: 33-34.

According to Qur'anic commentators such as Ibn Kathir, Suyuti and Ibn Abbas, these verses issue a challenge to produce a chapter that imitates the unique literary form of the Qur'an.[12] The tools needed to meet this challenge are the finite grammatical rules and the twenty eight letters that make-up the Arabic alphabet; these are independent and objective measures available to all. The fact that it has not been matched since it was revealed does not surprise scholars familiar with the Arabic language and that of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an was revealed over 1430 years ago and the challenge to produce something like the Qur'an has remained to this day. Throughout the centuries, thinkers, poets, theologians and literary critics have attempted to challenge the Qur'an. Some of these challengers in the past have included: Musaylamah; Ibn Al-Mukaffa; Yahya ibn Al-Hakam al-Ghazal; Sayyid ‘Ali Muhammad; Bassar ibn Burd.

What makes the Qur'an a miracle, is that it is impossible for a human being to compose something like it, as it lies outside the productive capacity of the nature of the Arabic language. The productive capacity of nature, concerning the Arabic language, is that any grammatically sound expression of the Arabic language will always fall with-in the known Arabic literary forms of prose and poetry. All of the possible combinations of Arabic words, letters and grammatical rules have been exhausted and yet its literary form has not been matched linguistically. The Arabs, who were known to have been Arabic linguists par excellence, failed to successfully challenge the Qur'an. Forster Fitzgerald Arbuthnot, who was a notable British Orientalist and translator, states:

"…and that though several attempts have been made to produce a work equal to it as far as elegant writing is concerned, none has as yet succeeded."[11]

Opponent might say.
William Shakespeare, who was an English poet and playwright, widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language, is often used as an example of unique literature. The argument posed is that if Shakespeare expressed his poetry and prose in a unique manner – and he is a human being – then surely no matter how unique the Qur'an is, it must also be from a human being.

However there are some problems with the above argument. It does not take into account the nature of the Qur'an's uniqueness and it doesn't understand the uniqueness of literary geniuses such as Shakespeare. Although Shakespeare composed poetry and prose that received an unparalleled aesthetic reception, the literary form he expressed his works in was not unique. In many instances Shakespeare used the common Iambic Pentameter (The Iambic pentameter is a meter in poetry. It refers to a line consisting of five iambic feet. The word "pentameter" simply means that there are five feet in the line.) However in the case of the Qur'an, its language is in an entirely unknown and unmatched literary form. The structural features of the Qur'anic discourse render it unique and not the subjective appreciation of its literary and linguistic makeup.

With this in mind there are two approaches that can show that there are greater reasons to believe that the Qur'an is from the divine and a miraculous text. The first approach is rational deduction and the second is the philosophy of Miracles.

Rational Deduction

Rational deduction is the thinking process where logical conclusions are drawn from a universally accepted statement or provable premises. This process is also called rational inference or logical deduction.
In the context of the Qur'an's uniqueness the universally accepted statement supported by eastern and western scholarship is:

"The Qur'an was not successfully imitated by the Arabs at the time of revelation"

From this statement the following logical conclusions can be drawn:

1. The Qur'an could not have come from an Arab as the Arabs, at the time of revelation, were linguists par excellence and they failed to challenge the Qur'an. They had even admitted that the Qur'an could have not come from a human being.

2. The Qur'an could not have come from a Non-Arab as the language in the Qur'an is Arabic, and the knowledge of the Arabic language is a pre-requisite to successfully challenge the Qur'an.

3. The Qur'an could not have come from the Prophet Muhammad due to the following reasons:

a. The Prophet Muhammad was an Arab himself and all the Arabs failed to challenge the Qur'an.

c. The Prophet Muhammad experienced many trials and tribulations during the course of his Prophetic mission. For example his children died, his beloved wife Khadija passed away, he was boycotted, his close companions were tortured and killed, yet the Qur'an's literary character remains that of the divine voice and character. Nothing in the Qur'an expresses the turmoil and emotions of the Prophet Muhammad. It is almost a psychological and physiological impossibility to go through what the Prophet went through and yet none of the emotions are expressed in the literary character of the Qur'an.

d. The Qur'an is a known literary masterpiece yet its verse were at many times revealed for specific circumstances and events that occurred. However, without revision or deletion they are literary masterpieces. All literary masterpieces have undergone revision and deletion to ensure literary perfection, however the Qur'an was revealed instantaneously.

e. The hadith or narrations of the Prophet Muhammad are in a totally different style then that of the Qur'an. How can any human being express themselves orally over a 23 year period (which was the period of Qur'anic revelation) in two distinct styles? This is a psychological and physiological impossib

f. All types of human expression can be imitated if the blueprint of that expression exists. For example artwork can be imitated even though some art is thought to be extraordinary or amazingly unique. But in the case of the Qur'an we have the blueprint – the Qur'an itself – yet no one has been able to imitate its unique literary form.

Therefore

The Qur'an can only have come from the Divine as it is the only logical explanation as all other explanations have been discarded because they do not explain the uniqueness of the Qur'an in a comprehensive and coherent manner.
Danielle

Con

Danielle forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
AskMeAboutIslam

Pro

AskMeAboutIslam forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Danielle forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
well
indeed
the debate is won.
so no need to talk
Posted by cummins2012 4 years ago
cummins2012
You people are killing me. You are debating whether Mohamed wrote the Qur'an? He is defined as a Prophet, not the author, meaning he received his information from his god. Oral histories are widely accepted in historical times because many people, if not most did not know how to read or write, so why does it matter if he actually put pen to paper, because of his charismatic leadership, I would bet that he had a personal scribe that listened to his teachings and therefore wrote them down for him. Contextually misusing quotes from these books does not prove your point, it just makes it obvious you are talking out of your as*. I've been on this site for an hour and it is terrible.
Posted by MouthWash 4 years ago
MouthWash
"Thank You gabrielle"

I lol'd.
Posted by debate4food 4 years ago
debate4food
Wheres dawkins when you need him :P
Posted by Ahmed.M 4 years ago
Ahmed.M
"Ahmed, not that you care about proper conduct, but it's poor conduct to be offering debaters advice in the comments section before the debate is over. That's called cheating."

I apologize for my poor conduct in that comment.

"I'm debating him, not you, though I'm certainly not afraid of debating you either :)"

Come at me. The resolution would be "It is reasonable to believe that the Quran is the word of Allah"
I'll send you the challenge in a while if you accept.

"The pro-Christian bias from my sources is completely irrelevant to the debate. I'm not using a Christian site to justify Christian ethics or beliefs, but rather pointing out an inconsistency that happens to be highlighted by Christian sites."

I never said your sites were pro-Christian (one of them is). They are simply heavily biased against Islam and are unscholarly. It cannot be used to accurately determine (or help determine) truths and facts.

"Keep in mind that if my opponent uses a Muslim source to argue against these alleged mistakes, I could use your same logic that HE is using biased sources. So be careful."

Sure if he only uses Muslim sources then of course you could say what I said to him. I have no problems with that so what is there to be careful of?

"Also, you're ignoring the fact that the Christian site references scholarly interpretations and not just Christian ones." I'll check them again to make sure (though that's my opponent's and the readers' job), but considering Pro hasn't used any sources of his own, I'm not too worried. Thanks anyway."

I don't know where you've derived the fact that i said all your sources are pro-Christian. I never said that. I simply said they were heavily biased against Islam. One of your sites is not even pro-Christian but is atheistic/secular.

Accept my challenge.
Posted by Danielle 4 years ago
Danielle
Ahmed, not that you care about proper conduct, but it's poor conduct to be offering debaters advice in the comments section before the debate is over. That's called cheating. I'm debating him, not you, though I'm certainly not afraid of debating you either :) The pro-Christian bias from my sources is completely irrelevant to the debate. I'm not using a Christian site to justify Christian ethics or beliefs, but rather pointing out an inconsistency that happens to be highlighted by Christian sites. Keep in mind that if my opponent uses a Muslim source to argue against these alleged mistakes, I could use your same logic that HE is using biased sources. So be careful. Also, you're ignoring the fact that the Christian site references scholarly interpretations and not just Christian ones. I'll check them again to make sure (though that's my opponent's and the readers' job), but considering Pro hasn't used any sources of his own, I'm not too worried. Thanks anyway.
Posted by Ahmed.M 4 years ago
Ahmed.M
AskmeAboutIslam, nice job so far. Where are your sources though? You need to add sources. You also need to point out that Con's two sources are very heavily biased and are cheap polemic rather than scholarly and as such cannot be relied upon for objective truth.
Posted by magnify 4 years ago
magnify
A bold motion by pro. Will be interesting to see what arguments come up.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by MouthWash 4 years ago
MouthWash
AskMeAboutIslamDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited twice. Pro did so once, but only because Con did not respond to his argument.