The Instigator
Zombie_Vampire_Nina
Con (against)
The Contender
brinzahar
Pro (for)

Is the United States of America Sexist?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2017 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 579 times Debate No: 98898
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Zombie_Vampire_Nina

Con

Hello! First I would like to clarify that my position on sexism is that the US is NOT sexist as women and men are incredibly equal in this country. I also think we should focus on many feminist and political claims made by those who said the USA is sexist (rape culture, gender pay gap, dress codes, etc.) or you can bring a personal observation to the table. I would also like to lay out a quick suggestion, use citations.
Thank you for your time, happy typing!
brinzahar

Pro

Politically, the United States is number 69 in women equality in government jobs. This cannot just be because women don't want these government jobs, it's because they don't get these jobs. Even Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Uganda have a higher percentage than the Untied States does in women in government positions (link one). There has been an American female president just not in America. Janet Jagan was the first female American president, the first lady served from December 11, 1997 to August 11, 1999 in Guyana. the reason why she left office was because of a medical issue, not because she was a bad president. (Second and third link).

I will continue with social issues in America next unless if anything else needs to be discussed.

(link one) http://www.dailykos.com...
(second link) https://en.wikipedia.org...
(third link) http://www.biography.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Zombie_Vampire_Nina

Con

Now I do agree that women do not have a lot of government jobs, but it is that they are not applying for them. When you look at the jobs most commonly held by women you can see that they clearly go for more caretaker type careers. Economists sometimes call these "pink-collar jobs" because the positions have long been dominated by women. However these are just jobs that women happen to dominate (nursing, teaching, counselling, etc.). Instead let's look at the degrees women and men go for, you'll notice something again, a large number of men go for more profitable degrees (though both go for Business Master Degrees, women do not go for the political bachelor degrees in the way men do). Let me reiterate, women are more prone to not only dominate in social and care-giving careers, they also tend to gravitate more towards degrees of a similar nature. The second most popular master's degree for women is education, the most popular for bachelor degrees is psychology. Bachelor degrees for political science and government aren't even on the list for most popular degrees for women.
Furthermore, while it is true that women do not have equal representation in government jobs (and as we've established that has nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with personal choice) having equality in job representation does not make a country good for women. You noted Pakistan, a country renowned for its violence towards women, honor killings and when you hear something out of Pakistan involving women it is rarely good news. You mentioned Afganistan, once more a country not known as a paradise for women's rights or safety, however unlike Pakistan (though violence against women still remains high) women's rights are somewhat improving, but that doesn't change the innate violence and oppression women suffer from there. Then you mention Uganda, this country is considered to have very traditional gender roles and once again violence and sexual assault are incredibly prevalent. Let me clarify another thing, these country's have never really been good for women, America has always held a respect for women which is why for a long time they were considered fragile and in need of protection, these other countries view women as inferior, regardless of how many women are in their governments.
While I agree more women should be involved in the US government, the reason they aren't is because they don't feel they need to. In those other countries, the ones you listed, women's rights are so set back that they would make the American colonists cringe. I feel that although you bring up a good point, it doesn't show a sexist America, if anything it proves the opposite, women are free to do as they wish, they can make their own choices and don't feel they have to go into government to advocate for their rights, because they already have those rights. Women in the Middle East and many African countries are subjected to strict laws and real oppression including gender subjugation. They are considered inferior. In the US you would be hard pressed to find a man or other women (because don't doubt those women in government in those countries aren't advocating for things like Sharia law) who genuinely believe women are inferior.
That is all for now, I will let you choose the next topic of discussion, I would like to speak about some of the many claims that women are considered inferior in American culture or perhaps the assertions that we live in a rape culture but again I'll leave that up to you. I very much thank you for joining into this debate and I appreciate you sharing your views with me, having open discussions like these is very enjoyable and really opens my mind to opposing views. Thank you again.
Sources:
Women Dominated Jobs- http://www.businessinsider.com...
https://www.dol.gov...
Degrees chosen by Men and Women- https://www.collegeatlas.org...
Pakistan and Honor Killings- https://mdp.berkeley.edu...
Women in Pakistan- https://en.wikipedia.org...
Women in Afghanistan- https://en.wikipedia.org...
Women in Uganda- https://en.wikipedia.org...
brinzahar

Pro

I believe that there is a rape culture in America, but not the way that many people believe it to be. It's about men being sexually abused or harassed and raped. I feel that many Americans believe that a man cannot be raped, and especially not by a woman. There have been many social experiments based off of this idea and are proven that most don't see anything wrong with a woman touching a man where he doesn't want to be touched, but the second a man will even touch her butt everyone around explodes. And sure there is still a sense of pride and many who are sexually mistreated will have problems with getting help for it. The idea that sexism is just given to women is ignorant, not in a way of being rude but in the way of being naive and unable to accept the truth, men are also prejudged based off of them being men. Another part of "rape culture" is the fact that women cannot expose their nipples (in an out door public setting) because it can turn on (some) men but men are allowed to not wear a shirt. Though, not every man has defined abdominal muscles, and not all women like men with abs, but there are many women who find a guy with abs a turn on. Though, this topic has been highly debated and still is, many states have at least allowed more freedom than others. I am a supporter of the "Free the Nipple" campaigns and think that it has done a job, but I still think that America can do better than what it is already.

Another way to show sexism towards men are in divorce courts. A man is far less likely to get custody after a divorce than their ex wives are. 17.8% of custodial parents are the father while women are custodial parents 82.2% this means in every divorce a man gets custody, four women in different cases would have gotten custody. And yes I understand some women are more fit than men, but many of these courts think that women are more nurturing then men are. Though there are more women than many in many care giver jobs, this does not mean that men as a whole are bad at nurturing and also doesn't mean that all women are good care givers either.

social experiments: https://www.youtube.com...
(picture) States with women expure of her chest: https://i2.wp.com...
Divorce in heterosexual families: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.census.gov...
Debate Round No. 2
Zombie_Vampire_Nina

Con

I feel it is important for opposing sides to on occasion come to some compromises, I have to say that I agree with most of what you said, however I still have some qualms with it. To begin with I would not call the general public's apathy towards male rape victims (when the criminal is a woman, because when it is man-man rape people get very angry) a "rape culture" that would mean that everyone allows this to happen, that our government and laws enable female on male rape. But, the law regarding rape states "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." (Source 1), according to this article, that includes female perpetrators and male victims. Furthermore many people are coming around to the idea of men being raped by women and looking down on women who do it. I do not view this as a "rape culture" so much as a "double standard". I will get to the "Free the Nipple" comments in a moment.
I have a similar problem with your verbiage in the paragraph about child custody. While I do agree that men and women should both be thoroughly evaluated equally in child custody cases, this is not a case of sexism. This is, however, a case of stereotyping women as being natural caregivers. As I mentioned before, women are more likely to be in care-giving professions (not that all of them are great care-givers) thus the stereotype is reinforced. But, I can see the problems here and they are very important to be corrected. In this instance I really agree with your interpretation, though not your wording.
As you can see I agreed with two of the things you mentioned, that does not mean I agree the US is sexist, if anything it shows the strict double standard in the treatment of men vs. women, but not sexism. I believe that sexism is beating someone up because they are male, not assuming they aren't nurturing. Again, in this case I agree with you for the most part.
Now lets get to the part you really lost me. Calling the indecent exposure of female's sex organs a part of a "rape culture". This was just very indescribable for me. The covering of nipples and breasts is not about some people getting turned on by them, it is about them being secondary sex organs. In no way are they similar to male nipples because of one simple reason, female nipples are meant for producing milk for babies. Unless you are breastfeeding there really is no reason to show your nipple. When men take off their shirt they aren't showing of their sex organs. But, I don't think it should be a crime, that has more to do with me being a libertarian than anything else though. As a fan of modesty and a straight woman I really don't want to see someone's breasts and I wouldn't want my children seeing them. Breasts are secondary sex organs and it should be a cultural norm to keep them covered, but it shouldn't be a law. This was a more opinionated argument though. Anyway, in no way is censorship of nipples part of a "rape culture", I'm not sure how you even came up with that. They are censored because they are sex organs and are, of course part of sex. After all, the more estrogen you have the bigger breasts you have, thus you are more sexually desirable for mating purposes (gosh that sounded weird, but it is true). Men having nipples may turn girls on, but they aren't really sexual in nature, they are just there.
I assume you brought up Free the Nipple to claim that society believes men can't control themselves, and to that I say not even close. Trust me, you will seldom find a woman who actually wants to run around half naked and let complete strangers judge her body. This isn't sexism, this is common decency. It isn't about men being uncontrollable sex monkeys, it is about nipples producing milk, indicating fertility, and thus being censored as genitals or sexual organs.
I look forward to the next part of our debate, I'm glad you pointed out the double standard against men, I don't meet a lot of people who point that out. Your turn.
Source 1: https://www.justice.gov...
Source 2: http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...
Source 3: http://www.webmd.com...
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Zombie_Vampire_Nina 1 year ago
Zombie_Vampire_Nina
Pay gap is debunked, don't need to "open my eyes" when they're already open. No offense. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com...
Posted by djdethkiller 1 year ago
djdethkiller
This isn't what I feel a matter of "opinion", but rather it is a matter of opening ones eyes. Yeah there area lot of opinions in this type of controversy, but looking statically wise, there has always been a pay gap between men and women, and it might have grown smaller, but the smallest pay gap is still relevant, because it isn't equal. There was never a real reason on to why women can't make as much as men, but there shouldn't be. Women and men are capable of the same physical abilities work wise. http://static4.businessinsider.com...
Other statics also show that women are in the disadvantage for executive positions in most jobs, and to keep the actual topic of sexism in america, men are in disadvantage when it comes to hours given a week, so there is no real saying that it is a matter of opinion, when the facts and statistics say other wise
Posted by Zombie_Vampire_Nina 1 year ago
Zombie_Vampire_Nina
I agree with that sentiment TheMiddleWoman1303
Posted by TheMiddleWoman1303 1 year ago
TheMiddleWoman1303
That is honestly a matter of opinion really. Yes, there will always be some sexist people, but that does not speak for the country.
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