The Instigator
slave123
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
johnlubba
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

Is the earth on top of a Giant Whale?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
johnlubba
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/2/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,758 times Debate No: 69319
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

slave123

Pro

The Earth is on top of a Giant Whale,

Ibn Abbas said so,

in his Tafsir,

in Surah Qalam Ayah 1, He says it is on top of a Giant Whale and it is Alhumdulillah ameen

"And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (Nun): '(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya'; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called 'Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah's name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an inkwell. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth. It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam,"

http://altafsir.com...

Alhumdulillah ameen
johnlubba

Con

My opponent holds the BoP to uphold the resolution that the earth is situated on top of a giant whale,
So far, my opponents opening argument is nothing but an audacious assertion, based on no facts whatsoever,

My proposition is that the article presented by Pro is an outdated text which shows how easily people can be wrong.
With the modern age and the advancements of science we are able to view pictures of the earth taken in space via satellite.

The images below clearly show that planet earth is not upheld by a giant whale. instead there is nothing.

http://i.space.com...

http://www.space.com...

http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov...

http://visibleearth.nasa.gov...

Conclusion:

The resolution has been negated.
Debate Round No. 1
slave123

Pro

All the images Con posted have been photo shopped,

The earth is on top of a Giant Whale,

Ibn Abbas has proved this, ameen

Read his tafsir,

read the tafsir about Surah Qalam Ayah 1,

http://altafsir.com...

Ibn Abbas knew the Prophet saw and saw him also ameen,

and the Prophet saw never lied once in his life ameen,

If the Prophet said the earth is on top of a Giant whale then it is,

no conspiracy by NASA (Never a strait answer)

can debunk his truth,

also the Prophet saw was given the Quran,

and no one can make a surah like the Quran,

proving it is the Word of God,

and that God spoke to the Prophet saw,

since God spoke to the Prophet saw,

then it must be true,

and I ask Con,

if a whale is not holding up the earth then what is???

Whale is the strongest animal,

so only it could hold up the entire earth,

the whale is held up by a rock,

and the rock is held up by a bull with 40,000 horns ameen,

and bull is held up by dust,

and no one but Alllah swat knows what holds up the dust ameen,

If nothing holds up the earth like Con says,

then the earth will keep falling,

and we will fall,

and we will hurdle off the earth, ameen,

the earth would fall and be destroyed if nothing was holding it up,

Con will talk about gravity probably,

but where is this gravity,

why can't I see it,

what causes gravity ameen,

It is an angel that holds us down to the earth,

and pulls us downward,

and only down ward,

everything goes down ameen,

so something has to hold up the earth,

otherwise ir will keep falling down until it hits the next earth ameen

there are 7 earths ameen
johnlubba

Con

Pro has unfortunately wasted his entire second round on nothing but outlandish assertions, He has not provided any proof to uphold his resolution, and therefore has not fulfilled his BoP.

Regardless if I actually concede that the images I provided are photo shopped, Pro has still not provided any sufficient evidence that the earth is being held up by a giant whale, All he provides is an ancient text, revealing an insight into how easily persuaded people can hold beliefs without evidence. I could just as easily assume my own personal subjective myth, that it isn't a whale that holds up the earth, it's actually turtles, and it's turtles all the way down. Or I could employ the idea that the Hindus believed, they believed that an elephant is what is holding the world up.

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The difference between my argument and Pro's is, that I do not have to prove my argument, all I have to do is present an alternative and poke holes in Pros case. Unless of course he can prove it, but thus far Pro has offered nothing but a baseless claim, which has no scientific backing, just the same as my own mythological assertions. Therefore all arguments can be rejected on the basis of lack of evidence.

Pro also argues that NASA is misleading the entire population, in the hope we believe that the earth is actually held up by a giant whale. Again, he provides no logical or rational explanation to accept his outlandish accusation, therefore his arguments fails on the basis of lack of evidence.

Conclusion

Pro has not upheld the resolution and has not offered anything apart from an ancient mythological text to verify that the earth is being held up by a giant whale. Therefore Pro has failed to meet his BoP.
Debate Round No. 2
slave123

Pro

"Pro has unfortunately wasted his entire second round on nothing but outlandish assertions, He has not provided any proof to uphold his resolution, and therefore has not fulfilled his BoP."

I have met the burden of proof, God himself says the earth is on top of a Giant whale,

what more proof do we need?

The Quran is the Word of God, if you doubt it, then produce a surah like it, but to this day no one has, proving it is the Word of God ameen,

"Regardless if I actually concede that the images I provided are photo shopped, Pro has still not provided any sufficient evidence that the earth is being held up by a giant whale, All he provides is an ancient text, revealing an insight into how easily persuaded people can hold beliefs without evidence. I could just as easily assume my own personal subjective myth, that it isn't a whale that holds up the earth, it's actually turtles, and it's turtles all the way down. Or I could employ the idea that the Hindus believed, they believed that an elephant is what is holding the world up."

The belief that turtles hold up the universe is not true, since the Quran and Hadith don't mention it,

The hadith says a whale, and then a rock, and then a giant bull with 40,000 horns, and then dust, and only Allah swat knows what is underneath it ameen,

and like wise the Quran or Hadith don't mention an elephant,

and besides the Whale is the biggest and strongest animal,

it is bigger and stronger than a turtle and an elephant,

so only a whale logically could hold up the earth,

Something has to hold up the earth,

Con thinks that the earth is a ball, floating on nothing,

if that were true, it will fall down until it hits something, ameen,

something has to be holding up the earth,

Con will say oh it is gravity,

but what is gravity???

Show me gravity Con, what causes this force???

don't just say it is the force of attraction???

What is causing this force???

Who is responsible for it???

I will tell you

it must be some type of angel or creature that is pulling us downward, ameen

this makes sense and is logical ameen,

and I already proved whale is bigger and stronger than elephant or turtle,

so Con's theories are wrong,

and besides hinduism is wrong, because hinduism teaches everyone is God,

If I am God AstughfirAllah nowzobilllah, then where are my powers???

Why can't I create something from nothing???

See hinduism is wrong,

but Islam is right,

because it is the only religion that teaches One God ameen,

there has to be One God if, there were more there would be chaos ameen,

"The difference between my argument and Pro's is, that I do not have to prove my argument, all I have to do is present an alternative and poke holes in Pros case. Unless of course he can prove it, but thus far Pro has offered nothing but a baseless claim, which has no scientific backing, just the same as my own mythological assertions. Therefore all arguments can be rejected on the basis of lack of evidence."

I have provided pleanty of evidence,

The Quran and Hadith are solid evidence ameen,

prove to me Quran and Hadith are not valid sources ameen,

and produce a Surah for me like the Quran in Arabic ameen

"Pro also argues that NASA is misleading the entire population, in the hope we believe that the earth is actually held up by a giant whale. Again, he provides no logical or rational explanation to accept his outlandish accusation, therefore his arguments fails on the basis of lack of evidence."

NASA was funded by Nazis

http://www.sott.net...

http://www.writing.upenn.edu...

It is called Operation Paperclip Con, please read about it ameen,

"Conclusion

Pro has not upheld the resolution and has not offered anything apart from an ancient mythological text to verify that the earth is being held up by a giant whale. Therefore Pro has failed to meet his BoP."

No Con is lying,

the Quran is not myth,

produce a chapter like it if you think it is,

And Muhammad saw was the most honest man to ever walk the earth,

He never lied once ameen,

so he must be telling the truth

and the Hadith are his sayings ameen,

So Quran and Hadith are valid ameen,

So the real conclusion is that I am right Alhumdulillah ameen

the Earth is on top of a Giant Whale Alhumdulillah ameen
johnlubba

Con

I would like to thank Pro for instigating this debate,
However I don't think Pro has made any sort of convincing case and has definitely not affirmed the resolution and neither fulfilled his BoP,

I will now proceed to point out the obvious flaws in Pros argument.

Pro claims the earth is situated on top of a giant whale, he attempts to affirm this by using a religious text as absolute evidence, without offering any scientific verification to back up the claim, The problem with this is, I can equally offer my own religious text from a different religion that contradicts Pros text, In other words, Religious texts are not acceptable as evidence or poof in debates as many religious texts have contradictory narratives.

I will offer an example,

In the Bhagavad Gita, we find Lord Krishna offers a different explanation to how the planets remain in orbit, which contradicts Pro's religious text.

I enter into each planet, and by My energy they stay in orbit. I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all vegetables

Bhagavad gita As It Is 15.13

http://vedabase.net...

Pro also assumes the Hindus have many Gods and that they can not be a true religion, as God is one, But Pro isn't familiar with Hindu scriptures and fails to recognize the difference between demi gods and God Himself,

This text taken from the Srimad Bagvatam, Krisna explains He is the supreme personality of Godhead. Not Allah

TRANSLATION

All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Srī Krsna is the original Personality of Godhead.

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28

http://vedabase.net...

The above illustrations are given only to show how religious texts are not adequate in debate as proof, as anybody can argue their case, and both would contradict each other if using different text, thus not being able to actually prove anything.

Conclusion, Pro has not fulfilled his burden of proof, and thus has not upheld the resolution, he only provides religious texts as evidence, to which I gave contradictory religious texts to show how the earth is being held in it's orbit. Pro as instigator has the BoP, and me being the contender only has to poke holes in his argument. To which I have sufficiently done.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by slave123 2 years ago
slave123
I hate you John Lubba, your hinduism makes no sense ameen,
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
slave123johnlubbaTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made several bare assertions as con pointed out. Arguments for Con. Pro also used several question marks at the ends of questions. Each question only needs one question mark at the end. This is annoying and it's bad grammar. S&G to Con. Advice to pro: you can argue things from a theistic position on this site but your case needs to be less choppy and better supported. Advice to Con- don't accept debates where a lot of gibberish is being stated. It can get frustrating and you risk some of the horrendous arguments being dropped just because they'll often not make their case clear and Gish gallop people.
Vote Placed by Paleophyte 2 years ago
Paleophyte
slave123johnlubbaTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro argued entirely from scripture, presenting no factual evidence for a giant whale supporting the Earth. Pro cited only two sources, both for conspiracies of how NASA is run by the Nazis. Pro loses conduct for violating Godwin's Law. Not sure if Pro is for real. Con argued well and used good sources in the face of bafflingly bad arguments.