The Instigator
KnightSkull
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
RetroRanter
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is the story of Jesus is false and inaccurate?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 499 times Debate No: 89407
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

KnightSkull

Pro

Now, as an atheist, I won't waste my time arguing on whether Jesus Christ existed on earth or not. He may have been a living being who many thought to be holy, yes, but I absolutely refuse to believe that his story as it is portrayed in the Bible is accurate.

Round 1- Acceptance
Round 2- Cases
Round 3- Rebuttals
Round 4- Defense

Now, I will warn you, that this is my first debate, so I may not have prepared myself as well as I should've, and I'm creating this debate at 2:00 in the morning, so I'm half asleep anyway.
RetroRanter

Con

Yeah dude the story is real cause of Jesus man. 18 years of his life is missing in the bible. He probably learned some chemistry, and turned water into wine. I mean a dude in the bible took limestone and mixed it with something in rocks, then when he poured water and prayed to God, a chemical reaction happen, and that stuff lit up in flames. I know its true, look at the evidence, it says it right in the bible from the word of God dude. Science says that gravity pushes everything down, but balloons float, and birds fly. I mean everything in the bible is totally real, and if you except Jesus into your heart, you can feel him man. Now if that's not deep then I don't know what is. I mean everyone loves Jesus. The bible even said Jesus will return to earth during the rapture to kill all non believers. Jesus loves us all, he prevents us from going to Hell. He even came back to life. That stuff is unreal. How I know, cause the bible say's so man. He even floated into heaven, totally more realistic then Muhammad, and the flying horse stuff.

I know my facts, like I know my science. Don't believe that any evidence is better then zero evidence, that's just Satan's minions whispering in your ear, making you think your smart like the fruit and Eve. Making you think you have logic. Man if you cant believe that a dude walked on water, then you must have been a basement dweller or something. Playing yo X-box, Fallout 4, and Battlefield. Dang man you gotta crack open the bible and feel them words, feel the holy spirit while reading a thousand page book with words in tiny font size. Jesus is now creating miracles, still till this day, you just gotta open your eyes, open your heart. I won a coin toss praying to Jesus that it would be heads. Guess what, it was heads. There's no such thing as a probability, only order that Jesus can manipulate.
Debate Round No. 1
KnightSkull

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent for accepting the debate. Now, on to the cases.

Now, first off, I would like to clarify that whether Jesus existed on earth as a human being is irrelevant. He may have, he may not have. The point I'm trying to make is that he was not holy/divine and that his story as it is portrayed in the Bible in inaccurate.

I have a few main arguments here:
1. The originality of Jesus
2. His miracles
3. His remain's "disappearance"

1. The Originality of Jesus
Now the story of Jesus is very plagiarized from past stories; as plenty of other Bible stories are. Here's a list of religious myths Jesus was plagiarized from and how they resemble Jesus' story:
a. Horus
Horus was an Egyptian myth that existed about 5,000 years ago. He also:

1. Born of a virgin
2. Star in the east
3. Walked on water
4. Healed the sick
5. Restored sight
6. Was crucified
7. Dead for 3 days
8. Resureccted

Now That's quite a few similairities, right? But thtat's not it. There's more.

b. Mithra
Mithra was an Indo-Iranian myth that eisted about 3,200 years ago. They also:

1. Born of a virgin
2. Born on December 25th
3. Star in the east
4. Had 12 dicsples
5. Performed miracles
6. Dead for 3 days
7. Resurrected

c. Krishna
Krishna was supposedly a Hindu God. The myth existed about 2,900 years ago. They also:

1. Born of a virgin
2. Star in the east
3. Performed miracles
4. Called "The son of God"
5. Son of a carpenter
6. Resurrected

d. Dionysus
Dionysus was the Greek God of wine. This myth existed about 2,500 years ago. He also:

1. Born of a virgin
2. Born on December 25th
3. Travelling teacher
4. turned water into wine
5. Called "Holy Child"

Now you probably already realized that all of the traits that I listed on all of the different mythical Gods/people are things that they have in common with Jesus Christ. there are so many of these common traits that it's extremely hard to call it a coincidence.

2. His miracles
Now as you (My opponent) said in your acceptance argument, that some of Jesus' miracles could have been actual science that Jesus could have learned. Fair enough, fair enough. Unlikely, but possible. But there are some miracles that Jesus allegedley performed that simply can't be done with science, especially 2,000 years ago. I'll just list a few, because this is an argument that you can get the gist of pretty easily.

a. Jesus walks on water
In the scriptures (Matthew 14:22-28) it seems to wuite literally describe Jesus walking on a the water of the lake. no tricky crap here. Even today, nobody can just go walk on a lake.

b. Jesus feeds 5,000 people
This one is described in Matthew 14:13-21. It said that Jesus simply looked up towards heaven and blessed the 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish, and they multiplied to feed 5,000 people. Not scientific. Hs no explanation. That's a radical claim that needs evidence to support it.

c. Jesus heals a deformed hand
In Matthew 12:9-14 it describes Jesus restoring a deformed hand. Now this one is pretty straightforward. It simply says that the man reached his hand out, and it was restored. Nothing cryptic. Pretty straightforward. This stuff is scientifically impossible.

3. His remain's "disappearance"
Many say that his remains dissappeared from his tomb because he was resurrected. Now this short, simple argument saidthat it is not unlikely that theives stole the body of Jesus from his tomb. Think about it. In those times and earlier it wascommon for a dead body to be stolen from it's tomb. There is more on this hypothesis here:https://en.wikipedia.org...
RetroRanter

Con

As a fellow atheist, I can't stop laughing from the funny examples you have given me. But what if. But back then, it was outlawed to have you know before marriage, and Joseph must have been a needy bee. So what if Joseph raped Mary in her sleep, and when he noticed something about Mary's belly being bloated, he remembered the christ prophesy, dressed up as an angel and came to Mary and said, I am Gabriel and this is the son of God, and you are totally still a virgen. Maybe right after she got drunk before bed, and is all up in a haze to not notice Joseph playing costume or another friend. And then he must have played innocent by trying to secretly break off the engagement, because he loved Mary, when in honesty he did not want Mary to leave him, he just wanted to keep her alive, and look innocent. Then after everyone believes Joseph since he was a man at that time, he says he had a dream an angel visited him, and said it was the son of God and blah blah blah "Mary will you still marry me". And if a great king wanted to make sure Jesus was actually dead, the king could of said, "off with his head". That method worked for kings a 100 percent in history. So it could have been an exaggerated story to make it epic, and people claiming he did miracles to maybe make him look like the son of God, Mary wasn't there when he did miracles. And no one can claim it in recording but people who happen to know Jesus. But again you weren't there, so how do you know. But again I wasn't there, so how do I know. Its a paradox. AHhhhhhhhhhh!
Debate Round No. 2
KnightSkull

Pro

Ok, so, first off, The claim you make is extremely radical and needs supporting. The idea that Joseph raped Mary in her sleep is strange. And if God is real, specifically the Christian God, he would have seen Joseph as irresponsible and sinful. God wouldn't want Jesus to be born to a sinful parent, now would he? Second off, you're atheist? Then why did you participate in this debate? You're an atheist but you still believe the story of Jesus in the Bible is true? Doesn't make much sense. Anyway, the claim you make here is hard to read. Please review your argument before submitting it. Also, don't you think Mary would've woken up to the feel of a dick inside her while she's sleeping?
RetroRanter

Con

Dude I'm just making things up. Even though my statement is more realistic then the bible. But obviously I was trying to be funny in this debate. thank you very much for teaching me about those previous people in the past. As an atheist, this will come in very handy for future debates. You are an excellent debater. Now to play religious here and give you a fair share. Even though I bet you can counter this, anyone can counter any religious thing. There has been recordings, that history books in school claim he was real, even though they believe the miracles to be false. In evidence there has been written recording during that period of his trial, and the king was indeed a real king, that historians could claim with evidence. There are three crown of thorns and people say that one of them is real. Highly doubtful though because I don't think organic plant material can stick around for 2000 years.

The location and geography in the bible is are real accurate places, so are the towns that are still in modern era. There was shroud claimed to be ancient, has the dried blood markings of Jesus, and through observation, forensic sculptures, with advance graphic designing, scientist has developed a reconstruction of what Jesus looked like. Through thousands of dollars in grant research, they have taken the time for this. Scientist also discovered nails in a 2000 year old tomb that soldiers used to crucify with.

Now how about the dead sea scrolls that are believed to be 150BCE-70 ADE talking about this religious teacher, and through descriptions are similar to Jesus, and are near the location of of where Christ himself was believed to be. And the 4 writers in the new testament were indeed scholars that followers of Jesus. The disciples. Key witnesses of Jesus.
Debate Round No. 3
KnightSkull

Pro

Oh you was makin stuff up to be funny ok xD. Sorry if I seem like I don't have a sense of humor. I'm just too dumb to realize a joke sometimes :). Now back to teh debate:

You see, I also agree that he could have been real, yet I think his divinity and miracles are indeed not real. I see that his crucifixion could have been real. As for the crown of thorns, it could still be around, but the branch that it's made of would definitely be decomposed at least a little. As for the mapping/locations in the Bible, I won't argue against that. locations are locations. Nothing to fight there. And referring to the stolen body hypothesis I mentioned in my first argument, the shroud could have very well been his own. Won't argue against that either (By the way I looked at that reconstruction, looks different then I imagined. Huh.). And the nails I just find interesting. Like I said, not gonna argue.

Now, for the key witnesses of Jesus that you're mentioning, All I'm gonna say is that these guys have no proof that it actually happened. For all we know, these dudes could've been lying sacks of sh*t who wanted everyone to believe a crazy idea. That's all I got. To be honest, this is one of the things I don't actually have an answer to. Mostly because I wasn't there when it happened and I don't know what their motivation was.
RetroRanter

Con

Now first off, the greatest lying f*gs are the renaissance painters. Getting that off my chest, an entire town crucified Christ because they all believed he was the son of God, and lots of people hated this idea. So maybe he did something that proven his miracles. A son of God I'm sure can do this, and there have been scrolls so many years before his birth, I think the oldest is probably a thousand years before Jesus. But it predicted the son of God, a holy teacher, who will do great. You see things in the bible were voted upon, but no one voted upon this to be added in the scriptures from the high priest that documents this stuff. Jewish people don't believe in Christ, instead they crucified him. So this segregated religion into the new, and the old testament. Because many people believe that Jesus has done miracles, and people came forth as witness of Jesus's almighty powers. And these people being so many, it could be possibly true, because no one voted upon adding this into the bible scriptures, instead creating a new bible that splits from the actual old bible, because they new it was true. What was added to the bible was agreed upon by actual high priest, or prophets with amazing stories, like Moses, or Abraham.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by KnightSkull 1 year ago
KnightSkull
No I don't think that they're all nuts. Some of them are. Those people who are all "Jesus this" and "Jesus that" about absolutely freaking everything. I have nothing against the normal, everyday churchgoing Christian. I just thought the comment you made was a bit anti-atheist. I apologize if I misunderstood.
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
@KnightSkull correction i am not acting on anything. i am reinstating what it truly means to be an atheist. as you clearly have no respect for religious people, by calling them nuts. you are some one with a very bias and unintelligent mind.
Posted by KnightSkull 1 year ago
KnightSkull
Oh cool cool xD. Sorry if I seem to be without a sense of humor man. Sometimes I'm just too dumb to realize a joke. :)
Posted by RetroRanter 1 year ago
RetroRanter
Dude I'm just trolling, I saw this, and was like man I gotta be funny in this debate. But thank you for giving that information on previous Jesus's cause that was super interesting. And that was made up about Joseph and Mary, but more realistic then what the bible said.
Posted by RetroRanter 1 year ago
RetroRanter
Well I dont think she saw Jesus turn water into wine actually. Even though it was her wedding.
Posted by KnightSkull 1 year ago
KnightSkull
Longline, you clearly act as many religious nuts I know would. Not calling you one, but I can clearly see that atheism is evil in your eyes. And, also, to Samcder1, what makes you think I'm not serious? Do I really look that idiotic? If so, huh. Good to know.
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
if you are truly an Atheist as you stated then, this debate is nothing but nonsense to you. and if i was the con i will do nothing but give you a view of a fool as you seem interested in it.
Posted by RetroRanter 1 year ago
RetroRanter
No man, I'm totally deep with this. Jesus is man my heart. And in yours too. I don't know what your thinking, but I'm a big man of Christ, and I'm giving him the best evidence I can to make him feel the holy spirit.
Posted by Mr.Case 1 year ago
Mr.Case
Watch Zeitgeist the movie, it brings some interesting aspects around religion and real problems.
Posted by Samcoder1 1 year ago
Samcoder1
This guy clearly isn't serious. Please invite me for a better debate.
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