The Instigator
MidNiteTyphoon
Pro (for)
The Contender
oracle1
Con (against)

Is there a GOD???

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 11/10/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 weeks ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 132 times Debate No: 96892
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
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MidNiteTyphoon

Pro

Round one is acceptance and opening arguments. DO not attack me. attack my view, as i will yours. I am not the topic of discussion. do not vote based on personal belief, But on the FACTS given here.

There is a god. HE made the universe in the shape of a butterfly, now I dare anyone to tell me that happened by chance. How did the earth magically land in an orbit so perfect that we are not roasted alive? And evolution cannot answer all the questions. The missing links? We've been around at a minimum 6,000 YEARS! you'd think we'd have found something? In space, there is not enough oxygen for anything to burn. But somehow a bunch of random gases mixed and blew a universe quintillions of light years across into a random existence of which we happen to be at the exact center? (More or Less). And back to the burning, the stars were created such that they would compress the gases around them into a glorious fireball? Without oxygen around them as a necessary ingredient for a fire? are you going to tell me that that all happened randomly??? How did a giraffe evolve valves in its neck that close when it bends down for a drink so blood doesn't rush to it's head? And have you seen all the evidence that points to the truth of the bible? The wheels at the bottom of the red sea? The burnt remains of Jericho? The recently uncovered tomb of Jesus? All these things and more. Read the bible and tell me, In the FIRST book of the bible, a man is so hairy a blind man can't tell him apart form a goat? A worldwide flood? Talking serpent? when someone says the bible is false. it is more a statement that the person who says that has never actually READ the Bible, than it says about the bible itself. and we almost found the Ark from the aforementioned flood. How? if the Bible is a hoax, where did all these stories come from? Look at the message bible. good paraphrase version. In "The Holy After-Party" (New Testament) Jesus turns the water into Wine Coolers!

These are arguments specific to the existence of the God of the Bible.
oracle1

Con



I accept.




Terms





Pro states that the God of Concern is the God of Christianity.




What do we mean by this? Per theopedia, we can derive many attributes of God, however I shall focus on two. Which are as follows:




Omniscience





“God knows all things - 1 John 3:20; Psa.147:5; Heb.4:13. This includes the past, the present, and the future. It includes actuality, and contigencies. That is, he knows what will happen, and he knows would "could" happen. There was never a time when God did not know anything. The greatest and deepest and most fascinating thing that God knows is himself, for his is infinitely deep in character and substance and beauty and wisdom. "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:34)”




Omnipotence




God has all power. He can exercise dominion over the entire universe, carry out the purposes of his wisdom, govern the hearts of men, and even create things out of nothing.




These are two invariable attributes of God, and I shall argue that they are mutually exclusive, and as such, we run into a logical contradiction, thusly the God of the bible doesn’t exist, because he cannot exist. Essentially I shall be arguing that God is a square circle.






Square circles







As aforementioned, I shall argue that God is a square-circle, and as such cannot exist, and to exemplify the significance of this argument, I shall demonstrate why square-circles do not exist.




P1)X is a square-circle, if and only if X has the properties of a square and a circle




P2) X can either have the properties of either a square or a circle




P3) X does not have the properties of a square and a circle




C) X is not a square-circle




C2) Square circles do not exist







P1) True by definition, this is what is precisely meant by square-circle





P2) For the purposes of this demonstration we shall use the term square to denote a figure with 4 sides, and a circle shall denote a closed shape with 0 side.





Recall the law of identity, A=A. X can have 4 sides, so A=A, or 4=4. It can not also have o sides because A=A, and 4 does not equal 0. 0=0 or 4=4, so per this demonstration, we can conclude a square circle does not exist because the object has contradictory properties.





P3) We have demonstrated that X cannot have 4 sides, and 0 sides, so we can conclude that it does not have 4 sides and 0 sides.





C1) Since we have established X cannot fulfill the criteria for being a square-circle, we can conclude X is not a square circle





C2) Since we have demonstrated that any object X cannot fulfill the criteria for being a square-circle, we can conclude that no square circles exist.




If we agree that square-circle do not exist, we can know that the Christian God does not exist.






Applied To The Christian God





P1) X is God if and only if X has the properties of omnipotence and omniscience




P2) X cannot have the properties of omnipotence and omniscience




P3) X does not have the properties of omnipotence and omniscience




C1) X is not God




C2) God does not exist







P1) True by definition




P2) Will be defended




P3) Follows from P2




C) Follows P1-3




C1)Follows P1-3,C1






This syllogism appears to be structural sound so all I need to do is defend P2.






Defense of P2:




P1) God is omniscient and omnipotent




P2) If God is omnipotent, he has have free will




P3) If God is omniscient, he does not not have free will




C) God cannot be omniscient and omnipotent






P1) True by definition




P2) True by virtue of omnipotence, being able to do anything, even qualified by anything that is logically possible, indicates that omnipotence necessitates free will





P3) If god has knowledge of future events, then he knows what he is going to do. If it is the case that if he knows what he is going to do, then he does not have free will. God can’t be wrong. If he can act otherwise, he does not 100% know what he is going to do, thus he he does not have complete knowledge of future events, thus he is not omniscient. However, if he is omniscient, he has complete knowledge of the future, he 100% knows what he is going to do in the future, and subsequently can’t act otherwise, thusly he is not omnipotent. So if God is omniscient, he is not omnipotent, and if he is omnipotent, he is not omniscient. So he cannot both, and as such does not meet the criteria for being God.





C) Follows from P1-3.





So if any entity X is God, X is necessarily omniscient and omnipotent, however it has been demonstrated that any entity X cannot be omnipotent and omniscient, therefore an omniscient and omnipotent entity doesn't exist, and as a result, God does not exist. Until pro reconciles these properties, we need not even discuss his arguments, because he has specified he is arguing for the Christian God, and these are invariable properties of the Christian God.




I look forward to pro’s rebuttals.




Reference:




[1] http://www.theopedia.com...

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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by MidNiteTyphoon 3 weeks ago
MidNiteTyphoon
Sorry. i was in LA this weekend and missed my turn.

But are you technically say that God. who by definition is the most powerful being in the universe, can't know everything???

And also:

You are saying that he is not all knowing and all powerful....

BUT DON'T PROVIDE ANY PROOF????
Posted by Bopjazz 3 weeks ago
Bopjazz
There are so many more planets in the universe that can support life and like you say didn't burn up. If anything God is a woman called "mother Nature" we all came from her and go back to her. Religion is based on "faith" and "belief" Faith and belief are defined in the dictionary as something we don't know for sure. I have faith that it's going to rain tomorrow. I believe the trip will take 2 and a half hours. But we don't know for sure. If we knew it would no longer be faith or a belief it would be a knowingness. It's black or white we either know or we don't know. Blind faith it's called. Religion comes under the category of what we don't know to be true. It's illogical or even silly to base any importance or significance on what we don't know to be true. So it's illogical to place any significance on religion thusly god.
Posted by oracle1 3 weeks ago
oracle1
"God doesn't know the future"
"God is omniscient and sees all things and possible futures"

@GrimlyF which is it?
Posted by GrimlyF 3 weeks ago
GrimlyF
Oracle1.Tut tut.There you go like so many before you trying to shackle God within your human limitations.Yes God knows the past.He made it.Yes God knows the present.He is making it.No God doesn't know the future.What need does he have when He will ordain what the future will be?.God IS omniscient and sees all things and all possible futures.God IS omnipotent and makes his choices actuality.To say God knows the future is to chain Him to a train called Destiny speeding down a single track that has only 1 stop.God decides our future as it happens.That is why He is omnipresent.
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