The Instigator
jamccartney
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
bhanutokas
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Is there a God?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
bhanutokas
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 441 times Debate No: 42772
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

jamccartney

Con

This is always an interesting subject and I am interested to see who can prove me wrong.

I will now list three of my many arguments about the subject:
1. The universe can be explained without the existence of God.
2. There is no evidence that there could be a God.
3. If God created the universe, who created God?

Again, those are only three of my many arguments about the subject. I am just listing a few to get started. Please feel free to accept this debate.
bhanutokas

Pro

There is surely a god. Though he can not be described as an individual there still is the the presence of someone who controls the things such as luck. The inner voice of ours is no other than the voice of the god. He is in the thoughts which stops us from doing anything wrong.
Debate Round No. 1
jamccartney

Con

Hello and thank you for accepting. I will not explain to you why I do not think there is a god.

I will begin with going through the points I made previously. I will elaborate on them, giving you a superior comprehension of my reasoning.

1. "The universe can be explained without the existence of God."

It is true. Stephen Hawking has managed to do it. Though I do not fully understand his ideas, I have managed to understand some of it, which I will share with you now:

Using many theories, such as M-Theory, he came up with his big theory. He said "What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?"[1] I will elaborate more on that statement in the third point.

If you were going to ignore his theory, saying the universe was created by God brings us to a dead end. God created the universe - So how did God come into being? It's the same paradox. It does not work.

2. "There is no evidence that there could be a God."

There really is no evidence for God. I mean, I've never seen any. I once attempted to prove to myself that there was a God. I prayed. Surprise! Nothing happened. I know many other people who have done the same thing and had nothing happen. People say that there must be a God because the universe is so complex and large. Well, it's called: There are trillions of possibilities of universes. There are so many universes out there and we just happen to be in this one on a planet called Earth. There was no meaning or plan. It just happened.

3. "If God created the universe, who created God?"

This is the question I was talking about earlier. It's the paradox. If you can't explain the universe, then you can't explain God. But since you can explain the universe, as Stephen Hawking has done, there is no need for a God. Therefore, there is no God.

Another point Hawking made was that there was no time before the universe for there to be a God in the first place. Time just did not exist and continues to be non-existant outside the universe.

[1]http://www.space.com...
bhanutokas

Pro

bhanutokas forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
jamccartney

Con

Hello.

It seems Pro has forfeited this round. I believe that means I won. I do not know if he just forgot to reply or if he actually gave up. Given that, I will not accept a win until I know for sure that he has actually given up. Pro, if you have, please leave a comment telling me you have. If not, I await your reply.
bhanutokas

Pro

sorry for not posting my comments. I sincerely regret my mistake.
As for is there a god , I will like to repeat what my able opponent said that- there are trillions of possibilities in the universe.
Then upon the question "is there a god? "
I would like to ask -
1- "whether the faith of trillions of people in this world lies at the base of an lie?"
And about the comment my fellow opponent made -
"The universe can be explained without the existence of God."

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

As to the comment-

2. "There is no evidence that there could be a God."

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
Debate Round No. 3
jamccartney

Con

jamccartney forfeited this round.
bhanutokas

Pro

So , now the con has forfeited the round. I do hope he just forgot to post his argument and has not given up yet.
Coming to the topic "Is there a god ?"
I argue that god exists because:-
1- if there is no god then, objective moral values and duties would not exist.
2- The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

existence of God. The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.
3- The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Dmot 2 years ago
Dmot
Con,
I noticed the points you made in this debate and I think they are common atheist/agnostic misconceptions. I was wondering if you would like to debate the existence of God or maybe one or more of your three major points? I think it could be productive
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Cooldudebro 2 years ago
Cooldudebro
jamccartneybhanutokasTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Here is my RFD. Conduct is tied because even though con was the only one to say thanks, he was a bit over confident. Spelling and grammar go to the pro for a lot of big words. Reliable sources go to the con because he was the only one to list a source to a link. Overall, the convincing arguments go to the pro because I felt he was better with his BOP. The con forfeitted when he needed to argue the most.