The Instigator
Cameron16
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Burls
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points

Is there a God

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Burls
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/10/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 457 times Debate No: 77511
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

Cameron16

Con

Hi all,
This is an argument on whether there is a God or not. I want to clarify that I do not believe in God but I believe that everyone should have their beliefs respected. Please use evidence from whatever you would like to support your argument. If you are willing to accept this debate just submit in your response "I accept this challenge."
Burls

Pro

"I accept this challenge."
Debate Round No. 1
Cameron16

Con

Why there isn't a God.
A1: It's impossible for a God to exist because he is not immortal. God has psychological problems, he's so insecure he demands worship every seven days of the week. (Luke 18:1) "And he told them a parable that they ought always to pray and not lose heart." This verse states that you should praise God for what he's done even though he should already know that.

A2: He creates faulty humans and then blames them for being faulty. (Romans 5:12) "Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned." Now I understand that you have to earn your way into heaven by proving to God you are worthy, but if God hates sin so much then why doesn't he just get rid of it? Isn't he powerful enough to just get rid of sin altogether since he's so powerful?

A3: The Great Disappointment. The Great Disappointment in the Millerite movement was the reaction that followed Baptist preacher William Miller's proclamations that Jesus Christ would return to the earth in 1844. Many followers had given away all of their possessions and were left bereft when the prophesy proved false. This proves that God made some of his people suffer because of a simple thing like visiting earth couldn't happen.
Burls

Pro

Counter argument:

The idiom 'Where there is smoke there is fire' may convey the idea that where there is order there is authority. The Bible tells us that God's ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9)


When we are advised to "Do unto others...etc." we may understand that sin is doing something we don't want done to ourselves. I would like not to have lied 6 times so far this year, so "why" you infer "does God let me lie"; the answer, possibly, is that I become aware of how I fall short of being in God's grace; I don't deserve to be in the company of God due to my bad habits.


Suffering is something we can look back on and learn that we often base our happiness on material things and forget the simple pleasures of life. Perhaps controlling our ego is part of the experience that makes us into better companions.


I hope these propositions are persuasive and I look forward to your further arguments.

Debate Round No. 2
Cameron16

Con

You make the point that suffering is something we can look back on, but some people suffer too much and commit suicide because they can't take anymore suffering. There hath no temptation taken hold of you but such as is common to man. But God is faithful; He will not suffer you to be tempted beyond that which ye are able to bear, but with the temptation will also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13) This says that God will not create a challenge too great for someone, but if that's true then why do people commit suicide?

The Bible has been written in all the languages in the world. From Afrikaans to Zuni. But the Bible's original written language is Hebrew. When text is translated from one language into another it gets screwed up. People take the literal translation and use that instead of what it is most commonly used for. Example: De Nada in Spanish is used to say You're welcome but its literal translation is For nothing. If people did not know what the phrase is used for don't you think that they would just use the literal translation and not its actual meaning?

The Bible was written by man. I know a lot of people know this but my point is that everyone lies. People will lie about the dumbest things. People aren't the brightest either. Some people I know are serious about thinking that Tupac is alive and so are a lot of others. When people who aren't too smart lie they can really mess with some people's minds. Is it possible that the person who wrote the bible isn't too smart?

As a result, God can't prevent suffering and translations are flawed. I look forward to seeing your counter argument.
Burls

Pro

This evidence supports the assertion that the ways of God are not our ways, rather than pointing to the non-existence of God.

"...with the temptation will also make a way to escape..."- seems self explanatory in regards to suicide.

Yes it's possible that the authors of the Bible are not too smart.
Debate Round No. 3
Cameron16

Con

Free will. God gave the people free will, with free will comes pain and suffering. Without free will there is no meaning to life itself. The only thing we can conclude is that God wants suffering because there obviously has to be a meaning to life. God knew what free will would mean. Sin, bad choices, and suffering. If he didn't think free will all the way through that wouldn't really make him a great God.

Harm on innocent people. Natural disasters, terrorists attacks, war and disease. All of these kill thousands if not millions of innocent people on a regular basis. Why does God want these people to die? What have they done so bad that they deserve death?

The Great Disappointment. I'm bringing this point up once again only because it relates to the whole God wants suffering point I made earlier. Why did God not show up for people that gave away all of their possessions just to see him? Did he want to disappoint them? Did he not think they were worthy? A bunch of these people gave away their houses just to meet God. Why would God let them do this if he knew it would leave them homeless and struggling?

How come there can be a talking snake to Adam and Eve but not to me? Why did a snake tell Eve to eat an apple from a tree? Was Eve schizophrenic? If God wants so many followers how come he can't do the same things he did back when the bible took place?

Why should I stop having so much fun on Earth for an afterlife that isn't guaranteed?

Also anybody can write a book on how something is a God and how it's the reason for all existence but why should I believe this one? Because it says it's the truth? Every other religion in the world says it knows the truth, major religion or small, it all says that their God knows the truth.

Why should I believe in the Christianity God if there are so many different theologies? Every single theology takes the word of God differently. Presbyterianism says that women and girls should wear long skirts. Baptists however are allowed to wear whatever they please. Why?

You also just said in your last argument that the authors of the bible may have not been to smart, does that mean that the holy bible is possibly flawed?

I look forward to seeing your response.
Burls

Pro

The flaw is our lack of experience with the subject. There's no reason, as far as I know, why Presbyterians and Baptists, Catholics and Protestants, Muslims and Druids can't all be subsets of one truth; This gives authority to many leaders that, in effect, can amount to many gods. Truth is then pertinent and particular to specific religions.

I too would like to know why miraculous events appear less in modern times than in historical accounts, and your impressive honesty is reason enough I think to merit some revelation, and if it should occur I think you would agree that the fun has just begun...

It's true that sadism can be deduced as the motivation behind the suffering. By all accounts the Gods are above human failings but it's also true by Biblical standards that God required blood sacrifices. Apparently Jesus had to pay a horrendous price to change things, and perhaps the "do as you would be done by" clause can help us overcome the sadistic trends that are just below our surface and easily provoked. The thing is to test the hypothesis to see if there is an adversary pushing us to bear arms against a sea of troubles so that we too can become casualties of war; maybe not what you have in mind in the way of excitement, but the possibility exists.
Debate Round No. 4
Cameron16

Con

If miracles happened to occur in more modern times as much as it did in historical days then I would be highly convinced about a God, and I'm sure lot of other people would be too. And by miracles I mean such events that had occurred in biblical times. Virgin Birth, Talking snakes, etc. There's just not much or any historical or scientific evidence that back 2000 so years ago there were all these events happening.

Conclusion: Many events happened back in biblical times with little to no evidence to support it. The Great Disappointment was God's way of saying that no matter how hard you try, you are not worthy of meeting him because of how much you sin as a human. Even though he gave you free will which came with the cost of sin, it's still your fault. Is there a God or higher source of power? Possibly.

Pro, thanks so much for this debate it was a lot of fun and really made me think. I wish you the best of luck in your later life and debates.
Sincerely,
Con

P.S.: I would like to remind anyone who read this debate and Pro that this is opinion based and was just a debate on our opinions.
Burls

Pro

Even when we witness supernatural phenomena we can be doubtful because we are familiar with the magician's sleight of hand. It's when the magician is incorporeal that our horizons expand and we begin to accept that little miracles happen all around us daily. Mankind is 1/3 of sentient creation according to the Koran and it's more likely that we receive enlightenment from the other 2/3 than from the top; the 2/3 of the iceberg out of sight.

A funny thing about arguments is that each time we handle a topic we have to approach the subject from a different angle because repetition stifles our interest. I suppose the same can be said for miracles and magic tricks, the magician has to find new audiences to startle or come up with new material; A predatory entity might wait at a watering hole to unleash his limited number of tricks upon the unsuspecting, and the knowledgeable might sell you a charm to ward off evil.
Whatever the true nature of a miracle I imagine you will find it, and it helps to be hungry for it. Best wishes in your search.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Burls 1 year ago
Burls
Perhaps a better overview is that God interacts with us in the manner in which we interact with others, so we better be aware of what we allow ourselves to do.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by officialkwade 1 year ago
officialkwade
Cameron16BurlsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: better debate