The Instigator
Dave34
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MrCarroll
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points

Is there a Trinity?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
MrCarroll
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/16/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,059 times Debate No: 15986
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

Dave34

Con

I, as a Muslim, am arguing that Jesus(PBUH) was not God but only the holy prophet of God who came to restore the gospel to the people(My main argument will be that Jesus isn't God). Unfortunately, this gospel was corrupted and came to us in the form of the Bible, which we know has add-ons and historical errors, proving it's corruption, but that's another topic. Anyway, I shall save most of my arguments as the person who is pro generally goes first.
MrCarroll

Pro

My opponent wishes to argue mainly that Jesus was not God. Although the title suggests the entire trinity, it would be unreasonable of him to argue this, as it is a concept exclusively contained to the Bible. However, the specifics of Jesus can be argued by logic unlike the Holy Spirit, for example. Well, maybe that’s not true, but I think it is reasonable to specialize this to the divinity of Jesus Christ. I will therefore show it is incorrect to view Jesus as a prophet or simply a moral teacher, and that it is most reasonable that Jesus was in fact God.

A. The Resurrection

The first piece of evidence for Jesus’ divinity is His resurrection. If Jesus raised Himself from the dead, I think it would be reasonable to conclude Jesus is who He said He was. It is well documented that Jesus came on the scene with divine authority. He claimed Himself to be the Son of God and carried out a ministry of miracles to show this. I will get back to this in a bit. In the mean time, the Jewish leaders crucified Him for blasphemy. Here we come to what would be the ultimate claim to divinity, resurrection from death. There are three main historical facts that support the resurrection of Jesus,

(1) His empty tomb

(2) His appearances alive after His death

(3) The origin of Christianity itself

The empty tomb

It is historically documented that a group of Christ’s women followers went to Jesus’ tomb on a lovely Sunday morning only to find an empty tomb. By far, most scholars will agree that the tomb was found empty, and those who deny the empty tomb do so on theological or philosophical assumptions.* The fact that women discovered the tomb has been seen as significant as the testimony of women in those days was not seen as credible.

Jesus’ appearances

Evidence then indicates that Christ appeared to different groups of witnesses at different occasions following His death. These appearances were not just witnessed by believers but also by skeptics, unbelievers, and enemies.

The origin of the Christian faith

History tells us that the Christian movement arose in the 1st century. It is agreed that it arose because Jesus’ disciples believed God had raised Jesus from the dead, and they went on to tell everyone they could all about it. Where did this idea come from? In order to explain these ideas without regards to an actual resurrection, we must conclude that these ideas came either from Jewish influences or Christian influences. We may immediately remove Christian influences from the issue, as Christians didn’t yet exist. However, these claims cannot be explained by Jewish influences either. The Jewish concept of resurrection is nothing like that of the Christian concept, and nowhere in the Bible can this Christian concept of resurrection be found. Thus we may reasonably conclude that Christ really did rise from the dead. This would mean Christ really was who He said He was.

B. Lewis’ take on Jesus’ divinity

Here is a more direct argument for the divinity of Christ devised by the legendary C.S. Lewis in his book, Mere Christianity. Let’s once again go back to Jesus’ ministry to the Jews. Here this man named Jesus puts forth a host of claims. He deliberately claims to have always existed, to be the Son of God, the Judge at the end times, and the only means to God. Interestingly, He also forgives sins. No mere man has the power to forgive sins; in fact, if one is not God, this claim is so ridiculous that it’s laughable. Since when do prophets have the authority to forgive sins?

If Jesus were merely a man claiming to be God, we would be left with two options, that Jesus was either a lunatic, a preaching madman, or that He was something far worse, a fiend from Hell itself. I don’t think either of these are reasonable conclusions. He certainly doesn’t sound mad when He speaks, and even His enemies when hearing the gospel do not typically get the impression of silliness, that he was mad, or conceited. Even less do unbiased readers. We also attribute humility and meekness to Jesus, but if He were merely a human, such claims would be the exact opposite of humility.

Con himself claims Jesus to be a prophet as taught in the Qur’an. But we can see that this clearly makes no sense considering what Jesus claims Himself to be. If it is unreasonable to conclude that Jesus was mad or evil, we may conclude that He was who He said He was.

Both arguments point to one conclusion, that Jesus really is the Son of God and is significant evidence for the trinity.


*The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel (p. 112)

William Craig vs. Frank Zindler

C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity,
Can be found here: http://lib.ru...

Debate Round No. 1
Dave34

Con

Dave34 forfeited this round.
MrCarroll

Pro

Extend arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
Dave34

Con

Dave34 forfeited this round.
MrCarroll

Pro

Maybe he'll return for the last 2 rounds.
Debate Round No. 3
Dave34

Con

Dave34 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Dave34

Con

Dave34 forfeited this round.
MrCarroll

Pro

Vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Puck 6 years ago
Puck
"It is historically documented"

lol
Posted by CapsLock 6 years ago
CapsLock
This will be interesting.
Posted by heatfran 6 years ago
heatfran
This isn't a very good topic to debate. Your side is determined solely by our religion, not by evidence. A good debate can be backed up by facts or general statistics, this can only be reinforced by "the bible says..." or "the Qur'an says..." it is impossible to convince the other one you are right, especially when your opponent is a devout Christian.
Posted by Ad_Infinitum 6 years ago
Ad_Infinitum
So you probably don't want to debate the existence of Jesus or the legitimacy of the Islamic religion in the first place?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
Dave34MrCarrollTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: forfeit
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Dave34MrCarrollTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.