The Instigator
pyevchik
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TheismDown
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Is there a creator?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 486 times Debate No: 69850
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

pyevchik

Pro

I would like to have a challenging opponent, to try and prove against the claim of a creator.
TheismDown

Con

The existence of a creator would mean that the world should have little to no imperfections because it's made by an intelligent being.We know for fact certain creatures aren't perfect.For an example male nipples are useless.Male nipples exist because during our early weeks in the womb we develop them,before our sex is ever clear.Adam was made with nipples.
I realize this is nitpicking,but i've got many theories that don't go along with the divine creator.
The theory of evolution is fact and it disproves the world being created in 6 magic days by a God.Also the bible claims the world is a few thousand years old,however we have dinosaur fossils and due to the isotope of carbon,the c12 we can determine it's age,which is indeed millions of years of age.

Those are some of my arguments,but i'd like to point out that none of them matter,because it's not up to atheists to disprove the existence of God,it's up to religious people to prove it.Because the very existence is a hypothesis that cannot be proven in which cases we oppose the hypothesis.

When i say "I've got an invisible dog that can fly" that statement cannot be really proven or disproven.But do we believe it,or use common sense to come to the realization that the person saying that is lying,as dogs can't be invisible and can't fly.
Debate Round No. 1
pyevchik

Pro

The World was not created in 6 days but possibly many hundreds or thousands of years. The bible said that one day to God is one thousand years, and one thousand years is one day. Next if the world is millions of years old, how come the oldest tree recorded is only about 5,000 years old. Also the longest-lived coral were 2,742 years and 4,265 years.

In a christian perspective, "perfect" means sinless. In Hebrew, perfect means complete. THe definition of creation is "the action or process of bringing something into existence." It is a process, nature is still a process. God is not finished with nature. Another piece of proof is that for a fact God never once said he was Perfect or created a Perfect world. It was perfect before sin in the Garden of Eden, but since sin entered the world no one and nothing was perfect.

If I told you that I threw some dirt in the air and when it came down, it was a Rolex watch. You would say that I am crazy. If I told you a pencil created itself you would not believe me. If you know that a pencil, a simple pencil cannot create itself, how can you tell me that Earth, and everything created itself. If we were a little closer to the sun we would burn, farther from the sun we would freeze. An invention has an inventor. A piece of art has an artist. A creation has a creator. God.
TheismDown

Con

The Earth is on perfect distance from the sun and it's gravity suits life,but this is nothing but chance.There are billions of planets in the universe and at least one had to be suitable for life,the same way cells were formed simply by chance and bond of molecules.
I do believe religion has a couple of good sides such as teaching people morality,but morality is something that can be taught without scaring people with eternal doom.Sin is also kinda odd to me.One thing i never could understand since the first time i read the bible when i was 9 is why God never forgave Eve and gave her another chance like he does to us.As long as we regret actions w they're forgiven,so why didn't this apply to them.
Also how is it moral to murder people for the sake of religion.
If there's a creator he wouldn't let his creations kill each other for being whores,homosexuals,witches and such.

I don't know how the world came to be,and i can't be sure that a creator exists,but i strongly believe that one day we will have an explanation.The ancient Greeks believed that thunder is caused by the anger of Zeus,but know we know what causes thunder and we know it's not work of divine forces.One day science will be advanced enough to tell how the universe was created.

Your argument about the 5000 year old tree is good,but as i mentioned in my previous argument,we can find out the age of beings that aren't alive anymore just by using their fossils or any other part of their body.This is thanks to carbon dating.

Also i'd like to give you a few arguments against christianity:
1.The bible states that adam and eve's children had children with each other.If this is true,we should all suffer from chromosome lack and genetic retardation because we would all be incest.
2.Why do christians ignore the bad things God has said and done.He killed a lot more people than Satan did.He made some messed up rules such as stoning gays,supporting slavery and some sexist ones too,such as the one about rape and marriage after.
3.How come no one isolated from society won't create the image of God himself,religion is taught it's not in human nature.That makes no sense considering the fact that God want's to be worshiped.
4.Why would this creator let millions of people die because of him.If he truly did create us and loved us he couldn't let us murder each other for his sake.It's not the muslims boy fault he was born in an islamic country.

My dad once said:If i was born a few thousands miles to the left i'd be ready to die for Allah the same way people here are ready to die for Christ.That my son is why religions is bullcrap.
Debate Round No. 2
pyevchik

Pro

Ok, lets say somehow something magically everything came from nothing. Then what? Astronomer and Mathematician Fred Hoyle calculated the odds for a one-cell animals to emerge by chance, and the result was a 1 in 10^40,000 chance. He concluded that the odds for a complex human to emerge by chance were too high to calculate. Biophysicist Dr. Harold Morowitz calculated the time it would take for simple bacteria to reassemble after all the chemical bonds are broken. The answer was 10^100,000,000,000 years. So the claim that human being were emerged by chance is invalid, therefore there is a greater being that made us.

Next let me clarify your question about Eve. In the old testament when a law was broken, there was a penalty. And the penalty was death. In the old testament it was the law was religion that is why it was taken so seriously. The reason there was this penalty is because God is a just God and he keeps his word. Next in the New Testament, Jesus took our punishment so we didn't have to suffer death if we screwed up. So after Jesus died as long as we sin and repent God forgives us. As long as gays, homosexuals, etc. go they live a life of sin. But the Bible teaches us not to judge others.

Next your claim about carbon dating. Carbon dating (for those who are reading and don"t know) is a radiometric dating technique that uses the decay of carbon-14 to estimate the age of organic materials. This is an unreliable technique because it heavily relies on the assumption that the level of carbon-14 has remained constant over time. Next carbon-14 breaks down quickly, therefore it is only reliable for fossils that died in the past thousand years, not millions of years as you said in your first argument.

It is a fact that there is no current scientific method that can prove the age of Earth. Some scientists claim that the Earth is dated millions of years old because they have found "DNA" in ancient fossils that is supposedly dated to be 425 million years old. This claim is easily proved invalid because DNA can"t last more than a few thousand years.

Your first argument was that if Adam and Eve's children had children we would all be incest. You are right in a way, but there is still an explanation. A little farther into the Bible was the story of Babylon. So they tried to build a tower etc. God gave them all different languages so they could not interact. Not being racist but most different races have different skin colors which means during this time God changed everyones DNA sequence to match the language. And this caused biodiversity in the world. Many people say how do you know the Bible isn't a bunch of made up stories? Well one of many pieces of proof is the unique historical accuracy. Innumerable copies of the early Bible have been found in Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Also the Dead Sea Scrolls are an undeniable piece of evidence, books of the Bible are on them such as Genesis, Deuteronomy, and Isaiah. Proving the Bible is an entire different debate, because I stated some basic evidence.

The rules that you are stating were taught in the old testament and doesn"t apply to Christians today. Stoning gays was in Leviticus (Old Testament), and the Bible says nothing about approval of slavery. The slavery you are talking about is being captured and sold as a slave. The Bible did not support this. People did it for money. God is a just God. He keeps his word, if he tells someone to do something or they will die, they have to do it. But God loves us, that is why he sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins so we don"t have to suffer. The world we live in today is a lot better, we don't have as harsh punishments, we don't have to give sacrifices, etc.

Sorry, but I don't really understand the third question but I will try to answer as best as possible. We are all created in the image of God, he loves us, and Jesus saved us. He let us live even though we sin everything we should be glad and be happy to praise him. He send his only son down for us, and he died for us. I don't know if you have kids but imagine sending your only child away, and watching him die. God loved us so much that he did that for us.

God does not make anyone sin, when he created Adam and Eve he gave them a choice of obedience or disobedience, they choose the disobedience and that is when sin entered the world. Jesus taught us to love each other not kill each other. God did not create sin, it came on its own because there is no evil then there is no such thing as good. God doesn't send anyone to hell they choose their life because we have free will. Another question may be why does God allow cancer and tsunamis and the simple answer is sin. Sin causes all of these bad things, and the only way to get rid of sin is to get rid of every person because everyone is full of sin. No it is not the boys fault he was born in an Islamic country and God knows that. He isn't going to send him to Hell because of that. When the boy dies, God will tell the boy about Jesus and if he decides to believe he will go to heaven. If not then he goes downstairs.

Other religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. all have one thing in common they are made up with no proof whatsoever. Christianity is different we have something that was passed on for thousands of years with millions of copys. The Bible. The Holy Spirit is truly something supernatural, it has been proved that speaking in tongues is truly supernatural and it is just showing how amazing God is and it shows his power. I want to conclude that through this evidence God is the creator of all things and he is a just God, he did everything for a reason, and everyone has a purpose and path for life. God loves everyone no matter what you look like or what you do, God will always forgive you, he someone to turn to in times of trouble. He will never leave us hanging and wants to have a personal relationship with each and every single on us. We truly do have a creator, the one who created us and put everything into existence. God.
TheismDown

Con

Your arguments are very solid i mean they made me question my existence,but i'd like to finish off this debate,not because i've got no further arguments but because most of them are pointless as your own beliefs cannot be truly changed like beliefs about gun rights or abortion.I respect your faith and as long as people respect each others religion and belief(including atheism,i mean i do 'believe' that there is no God)i think it's good enough.I realized that we're debating a topic that we cannot completely prove,i don't have true evidence against God,you've got no true evidence that God is real,i think we should leave it as it is,faith.
As the debate goes you did better than me,i mean just the fact that i almost considered being a theist is insane as i thought i was strong in my atheist beliefs.
Thanks for clearing things up for me,the God changing the DNA structure of humans to create diversity in humans is a really good answer.
Great debate.Also if i did something wrong during it I'm sorry it's my first debate.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by cmshelton98 1 year ago
cmshelton98
Great first round, @TheismDown. Better fight back, @pyevchik
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by creationtruth 1 year ago
creationtruth
pyevchikTheismDownTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Both had poor arguments and both had poor defenses.