The Instigator
Loveshismom
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
AlexanderOc
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Is this madness (pro) or Sparta (con)?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
AlexanderOc
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/11/2014 Category: Funny
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 742 times Debate No: 58852
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

Loveshismom

Pro

This is madness!
AlexanderOc

Con

Considering Pro has not made any arguments, I am to assume first round is acceptance.

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Loveshismom

Pro

Thank you for accepting my challenge.

P1: this is either madness or it is Sparta
P2: Sparta is a city in Greece
P3: we are not in Greece
P4: therefore we are not in Sparta
C1: therefore this is madness!
AlexanderOc

Con

My opponent presented a very flawed argument above.

Criticism of P1:
It is not stated what "this". However my opponent later interchanged "this" for "we". So i'm assuming that this = we and therefore that his claim is
"We is madness"

Furthermore, my opponent has not given any reason to suggest that "this" or "we" cannot be anything besides madness or Sparta.

Criticism of P3:
My opponent has not provided any evidence to support this premise. Even if he did, us being in or not in Greece is irrelevant. He is claiming that "We is not Sparta" not that we aren't in Sparta.

Criticism of P4 as well as C1:
This being Madness because we are not in Sparta is a non-secular argument.
My opponent has failed to prove that us being in Sparta must mean that this isn't madness nor that us not being in Sparta would result in this being madness.

Now since my opponent has essentially defined "this" as "we", I must now defend the claim
"We is Sparta"

It is very simple as all I must show is a state of being Sparta.

Sparta is the name given to a city in Greece. If I were to name me and my opponent Sparta, then We is Sparta.

I therefore name the group me and my opponent make "Sparta"

Back to Pro.
Debate Round No. 2
Loveshismom

Pro

Defense of P1:

"... his claim is 'we is madness' "

It is most certainly not. I never used "we" without "in."

No I haven't but by taking the Con side, you chose the resolution that this is Sparta. As Pro, my resolution is that this is madness. Therefore I need not give a reason to suggest that this is either madness or Sparta. That also means you negate any argument you make about there being any other option or this possibly being anything else.

Defense of P3: a lot of people on this site are either Amerrican or British, so it is unlikely that you are debating from Greece. I am not claiming that we is not Sparta, you troll. I'm saying that this is madness.

Defense of P4: as well as C1:

I am arguing jokingly, not religiously. I can't prove that, but "is this madness (Pro) or Sparta (Con)?" and "This is madness!" are two different debates because the first one has both debaters choosing a specific resolution, whereas the other leaves it possible to argue that this is something other than Sparta or madness without negating their argument.

Why your argument is wrong

1. You chose the resolution that "this is Sparta," not "we is Sparta" or simply that this is not madness. I also clearly showed earlier that I was NOT semanticizing. This = we (not)

2. You used that false premise to argue that you can change our names to Sparta. You can change your own name to Sparta, but not mine because I am not you and can reject a change of my name if I wish.
AlexanderOc

Con

"It is most certainly not. I never used "we" without "in."
Does Pro have any proof of this, or are we supposed to just trust his judgement?
Also remember, he used 'we' in place of 'this'. Basically saying that the 'this' in the resolution is 'we'.


P1: this is either madness or it is Sparta
P2: Sparta is a city in Greece
P3: we are not in Greece
P4: therefore we are not in Sparta
C1: therefore this is madness!

In P3, why didn't Pro say that "This is not Greece?"
He is either
1. Saying that 'we' is irrelevant to his premise, and therefore his conclusion is false
2.or saying that the subject that 'this' is reffering to is 'we'


"Therefore I need not give a reason to suggest that this is either madness or Sparta."
Incorrect. As Pro my opponent must give a reason to suggest this is madness. Otherwise he forfeits his BoP by not arguing for his case.



"a lot of people on this site are either Amerrican or British, so it is unlikely that you are debating from Greece. I am not claiming that we is not Sparta, you troll. I'm saying that this is madness."
My opponent is making assumptions. He has no evidence that I'm not In Greece an therefore cannot state otherwise, which he did in his 3rd premise.
Pro is refuting my claim "We is Sparta" which means he is also claiming the opposite "We is not Sparta". Regardless of what he says, those are the claims he indirectly made.

"but "is this madness (Pro) or Sparta (Con)?" and "This is madness!" are two different debates because the first one has both debaters choosing a specific resolution, whereas the other leaves it possible to argue that this is something other than Sparta or madness without negating their argument."

I never said the Resolution was "This is madness!" I argued Pro's claim was "This is madness!". Is that not true?


"You chose the resolution that "this is Sparta," not "we is Sparta" or simply that this is not madness. I also clearly showed earlier that I was NOT semanticizing. This = we (not)"

Correct, I chose the resolution "this is Sparta" However due to your interchangable use of 'this' and 'we' my claim is also "we is Sparta".
Pro did not show he wasn't semanticizing, he simply said he wasn't. For all we know he could be lying.



" You used that false premise to argue that you can change our names to Sparta. You can change your own name to Sparta, but not mine because I am not you and can reject a change of my name if I wish."
I can change the group we make up "Sparta". I never changed Pro's personal name, only the name of our group. It doesn't matter if he rejects the name, as long as I call the group it, it remains a name of the group.

Debate Round No. 3
Loveshismom

Pro

Loveshismom forfeited this round.
AlexanderOc

Con

Darn, I'm tired of winning debates like this.
Debate Round No. 4
Loveshismom

Pro

Loveshismom forfeited this round.
AlexanderOc

Con

All Arguments extended and unrefuted.
Shame.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Loveshismom 2 years ago
Loveshismom
Aren't you supposed to troll in a troll debate?
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
alex trolled the troll debate.... lol
Posted by AlexanderOc 2 years ago
AlexanderOc
:) Thank you.
Posted by Gogert777 2 years ago
Gogert777
Wow, that was not cool by any stretch of the imagination con. You're lame!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
LoveshismomAlexanderOc
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: False dichotomy is false.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
LoveshismomAlexanderOc
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: ff and nice funny rebuttals.