Islam VS Christianity
Debate Rounds (3)
1. Pro/For will be proving that Islam is the right religion, Con/Against will be proving that Christianity is the right religion.
2. No profanity.
3. You have to respect your opponent.
4. For voters: If you are a Muslim, don't automatically vote for Pro. If you are a Christian, don't automatically vote for Con. Read the debate and vote based on whose points and rebuttals were the most convincing.
Islam and Christianity are the two largest religions in the world. In this debate, my opponent and I will provide valid reasons and points to prove which religion is right, and which is wrong.
Point 1: I understand that not all Christians believe in the Trinity, but most do. In which case, the Trinity is extremely illogical. If God is the most powerful, why does He need a son? And if Mary gave birth to Jesus and Jesus is God's son, wouldn't that make God the husband of Mary? The whole concept of the Trinity contradicts the fact that God is the most powerful and independent. And if Jesus was really the son of God, why would God crucify him for our sins? I understand that usually to do something, you have to sacrifice something else, but if God created the universe and heaven, he can surely do something as simple as just forgetting about our sins and moving on. If this is too hard to take in, let me give you an example.
Let's say there was a father and a son driving on the street. The father made the car, has complete control over the car, and could stop the car anytime he wants. A big group of people were walking on the street, oblivious to the speeding car coming towards them. The car is still a good distance away from the group of people, yet the people haven't moved yet. There's plenty of time for the father to stop the car. What is the most logical thing the father could do? Throw his son in front of the car, or just simply stop the car himself?
Point 2: Christians say that Jesus was born as a miracle because he has no father, so he surely is the son of god. But wasn't Adam born without a mother OR a father? If that is how you think of it, then Adam is a bigger son of God than Jesus is. Wasn't Eve born from the RIB of Adam? Again, that makes her a daughter of God, too. The fact that God created Jesus with only a mother only further proves that God is the most powerful. Here is another example of this to further deepen your understanding of what I'm trying to say:
Let's say there was this really skilled chef. He made chocolate macaroons without the use of chocolate, yet the macaroons still tasted like normal chocolate macaroons, even better. Does that mean that the chocolate macaroons are skilled macaroons because they got created without chocolate, or does that mean that the chef was extremely skilled because he CREATED the chocolate macaroons without chocolate? See, it's true that it's an amazing miracle that Jesus was created without a father, but we aren't really looking into it. He WAS CREATED without a father. A God can never BE created, he is supposed to be the creator of everything. Once again, the fact that we should view Jesus as something like a God contradicts the whole meaning of God: the creator of everything. But here Christians fully admit that Mary created Jesus alone, and God created Mary, so here we are, only required to worship one God, and one God alone.
Point 3: Let's say that Jesus is, in fact, the son of God. He was created by God, so it is logical that he is the son of God, right? Right. If so, we are all children of God, because God created us. Then, what's so special about Jesus being the son of God? Absolutely nothing. So why do Christians worship Jesus? Another example to further prove this point:
Let's say you work at a restaurant. Your boss has a son. Should you be working for your boss, or your boss's son?
Point 4: If Jesus was crucified on the cross, why do Christians adorn jewelry with crosses? Shouldn't they be sad that their God was crucified on the cross? If so, then the mere sight of the cross would upset them. For example:
Let's say you have a loving mother. Then one day, somebody chopped her up into pieces with an axe, wouldn't you live the rest of your life being mortified by the sight of an axe, or would you wear a pendant of an axe, a ring of an axe, and shoes that have an axe printed on them, and walk on the streets proudly? Just another illogical thing about Christianity.
If God crucified Jesus for our sins, that would be just plain unfair. In the Qur'an, God says that nobody should pay for another person's sins, because that is unfair. And since Jesus is supposedly the son of God, how did God agree to crucify him for our sins?
Muslims accept the REAL Bible as a holy scripture, but the modern copies of the Bible are corrupted and changed by the church. Please give me ONE phrase from the Bible that states that the modern Bible has not been changed in any way. There is none. Whereas in the Qur'an, God clearly states that He is protecting the Qur'an in the heavens, and that not a single letter or a way of pronunciation has been changed.
Now for the second: The amazing part about Jesus was his connection to the father, not how he was born! And you compare Jesus to Adam and Eve? Yes, of course they're the son and daughter of God, WE ALL ARE! Just think of Jesus as the chosen one, instead of especially his son or something!
The Third: I just covered that! ^^^^
Fourth: The key point you're missing is- it's an empty cross!!! The empty cross is a symbol of great joy and love for us, because it represents how Jesus rose from the dead and came back to us!
Fifth: You know what? We know! We know that it may seem unfair, and Jesus knew it to. He asked the Lord if there was any other way, but there wasn't. And he went through with it any ways! He suffered and died, was mocked and abused, and he did it for us. All of us.
The sixth: James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Now for my points: First: Your Allah (I hope I spelled that right) is nothing like a God we Christians are blessed to have watching over us. Our God says that if you come back after you sin and ask for forgiveness, he will forgive you. Your god is sometimes as bad as a human, who demands people to bow to him and please his vanity.
Second: Your Qur'an is called the most holy and truthful book, yet what's in between the covers is pages full of violence and death! Please prove to me that this book is truly holy and beautiful.
Your 1st rebuttal: Oh wow, so now you're treating religion and Gods like politics? What dictatorships exactly are you talking about? No, I have never seen anybody 'all-powerful' leading something by themselves, because nobody's 'all powerful' except for God! Why do you think presidents and emperors never lead anything by themselves? Because they're normal and weak! You cannot simply compare God to a president or a human leader. And no, the Islamic religion isn't a dictatorship. Whenever Muhammad (PBUH) would make an important decision, he'd ask all of the people involved in it, and they'd work on the advantages and disadvantages of it. And when God was deciding on the amount of times we'd pray daily, Allah was going to make Muslims pray 500 times a day, but Muhammad (PBUH) asked him to make it 50, then he asked him to make it 5. When he went back to his town, they asked him why he didn't ask Allah to make them less, Muhammad (PBUH) simply said that he felt like he was asking too much from Allah (his creator), and that he was in no position to demand anymore from his Lord. And i quote you saying: "That's how it appears from the outside!". So you're saying you should always judge everything based on how it appears from the outside? If you actually read the Qur'an, or part of it at least, you'd know what Islam is really about. It's about living in peace , thanking Allah for our blessings, and defending ourselves when attacked.
I understand that a God can do anything, but God won't do anything without a purpose. Why did God divide himself into THREE beings, then? That just makes no sense. And in the Bible, Jesus always speaks to God as 'his father', so if you'd take it logically, then no, the three of them aren't the same person.
"All things have been committed to me by my Father [notice how he says 'my Father'. If they were all the same person, he would say 'me as a Father], and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." Luke 10:19.
I'm not saying he should forget our sins, but if he wants to, why not just forget them? If he is God and he can do everything, then he can surely do something as simple as just forgetting our sins. And plus, your example made absolutely no sense.
Your 2nd rebuttal:
His connection with his father? I thought you said he is the same person that his father is? Look, this whole thing could be explained in a simple math equation:
1 1 1=1, or 1 1 1=3? Which makes more sense? Okay, now I agree that a God can do anything, in which case, okay, let's say 1 1 1 can really be equal to 1. Why would God do that? Gods aren't supposed to play around and mess around. A God should know when to do something and when to not do something. As for making himself exist in the form of three beings, there is absolutely no reason for that.
Yes, yes I compare Jesus to Adam and Eve. If Christians think we should worship Jesus because he was created a miracle, tens of other people were created as a miracle. Nothing special about it. And in the Bible it explains the Trinity, but then (again in the Bible) Jesus keeps talking to God as two separate people. And Jesus also prays, as mentioned in the Bible. Why would Jesus pray if he is God? To know the season of the fruit?
Your fourth rebuttal: The empty cross is a symbol of joy? Just because Jesus isn't on the cross doesn't mean he never was. Christians believe that Jesus was, in fact, tortured and killed on the cross. Even if Jesus 'rose back from the dead' (which is ironic, because he's a God, meaning he shouldn't be dead in the first place), and even if the cross being worn is empty, it still shouldn't please you!
Your fifth rebuttal: Well that is completely illogical. If Jesus is Jesus, the Lord, and the Holy Spirit all at once, surely he would've had enough power to just forget about our sins and move on? Why torture himself and get mocked when he could do something as simple as forgive our sins, the end? And what does dying have to do with our sins anyways? And what was the whole point of 'dying for our sins' and then being resurrected again anyways? The whole concept is clearly man-made, with not much thought put into it.
The quotes you have provided are completely irrelevant. I asked you for a quote in the Bible that clearly says 'The Bible will not be changed'. And honestly, who am I kidding, there are more than thousands of versions of the Bible, and there are barely any words that have stayed the same. Not a page has stayed the same, and you Christians know that.
Back to the quotes you gave me. James 1:17 means:
Whatever is good and perfect comes down to us from God our Father, who created all the lights in the heavens. He never changes or casts a shifting shadow.
'HE never'. Basically meaning that GOD never changes, not THE BIBLE never changes.
As for Revelation 22:13, it means:
It is seen especially in Revelation 22:13, where Jesus proclaims that He is "the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." One of the meanings of Jesus being the "Alpha and Omega" is that He was at the beginning of all things and will be at the close.
Again, completely irrelevant verse. I asked you to give me a verse that says that the Bible will never change. Which, even if there was, is completely untrue, since now we can see with our own eyes that the Bible is being played with like a child's toy. The church can make their own new version whenever they want, wherever they want.
Now, for my rebuttals to your points:
Point 1: Watching over you? How exactly is he watching over you? Dying for your sins and forgiving you whenever you want, it isn't for your own good! Our God is like our parent, and what use is a parent if your parent just sacrifices for you and never really punishes you for what you do? That's called being spoiled. You, dear Christians, are being spoiled. You take the fact that Jesus forgives you whenever you want him to as an act of kindness and mercy, but you are failing to realize that it is completely wrong to forgive every single time, and have the person make the mistake over and over again.
And yes, our God says the same thing. Allah clearly states in the Qur'an that if you come back after you sin and ask forgiveness, he will forgive you, but ONLY if you truly deserve forgiveness and if you vow to never repeat the mistake again. And if you vow to never sin again, then come back asking for forgiveness, truly meaning it (again), God will forgive you. It doesn't matter how many times you sin, it just matters that when you ask for forgiveness you truly mean it and you truly plan to never do it again. THAT is the difference between FORGIVING, and DISMISSING.
Sometimes as bad as a human? Look, the thing, is, you say things about Islam and never really prove it any further. You don't use quotes from our Qur'an, you don't use rules of Islam, nothing. You just say stuff and then go on to your next
point. For example: You said, and I quote "what's in between the covers is pages full of violence and death!". Oh, God. Have you read ONE PAGE of our Qur'an? One page? Have you even READ about Islam? Well until now, you haven't quoted anything from the Qur'an, you haven't given me any facts or meaningful examples, you haven't done anything! You just say that your God is better than our God, that the Qur'an is a book about death, and that Jesus is amazing. You don't use facts, or quotes, or examples, or historical events. Please give me ONE THING that proves that Allah can be as bad as a human. Please give me ONE QUOTE from the Qur'an that proves the book is all about violence and death.
Your Bible is worse than a fighting manual I buy at a gun shop! Have you even read what some of the verses of your Bible are? Let me quote some for you:
"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man; she is to keep silent." 1 Timothy 2:12.
**no more space**
Think of the trinity like this- God split his spirit into The Spirit, God, and Jesus. Of course Jesus prays, and calls God his "Father" because God created him, and Jesus was a human like everyone else. God brought Jesus down as a chance to come to the mortal world and let his power help the people directly through the people! Also for your whole "1 1 1=1, or 1 1 1=3? Which makes more sense?" thing? I notice you didn't put any pluses or anything, so I'll add something for you- 1x1x1=1 or 1x1x1=3. Which makes more sense now?
The main special thing about Jesus is his complete and utter devotion to God, something that no other human was/is capable of! So yes, he is special!
We understand Jesus was on the cross!!!!! We have a whole dedicated to that last week of Jesus's life, from Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday. We go from celebrating to mourning to celebrating. We are so grateful that Jesus died for our sins, and wear the cross to celebrate the fact that the cross is now empty and that the Christ is risen!
The reason that our God is more lenient in forgiving is that our God loves us and understands and doesn't expect us to be perfect. Think of any kid who's ever had a bad habit- the parent says, "Don't do that anymore, ok?" and the kid says, "ok. I won't." and then, the kid never does it again in their life! Right? No! You can't just say "Ok. I will stop, forever more." For some things, you can! But a lot, you can't, and our God understands that!
So about Islamic promotion of violence- take, first the quote at the top where your God says, pretty much, "Violence is what you need. I don't care if you don't think so, it's true."
Another one is, Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This one is aimed at polytheists, and also Christians, because they believe in the Trinity! I get why you're skeptical of the trinity, seeing as you've probably grown up being taught this. The only thing is, do you really believe this? Can you truthfully say that you want to cast terror into my heart because I have different religious beliefs than me? I mean, I'm sorry, but this is way over the top!
And, also here's a quote from my bible about the pure bible- 2 Tim 3:16: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
And yes, fighting is a good thing (if done at the right time). Oh, so you're telling me that we shouldn't fight people who fight us? So we should just sit there while another country invades our country, claiming we only believe in peace? Well guess what, it IS, in fact, possible for a person (or a whole religion, for that matter), to preach peace, yet wage war when needed. When having our rights taken from us; war. When being fought, fight back. That is what we believe. And yes, it is possible for us to dislike something good and like something bad. We do it all the time. We are imperfect humans, most of the time stupid, and almost all of the time oblivious to the consequences of what we do- no matter how good we are, we are still human. Only Allah knows what is truly good for us and what is not. Just like people dislike medicine, when medicine is good for them. Just like some people are fond of smoking and doing drugs, and it is bad for them. So, your attempt to prove that the Qur'an is a book of death, is completely invalid. And, just so you know, Allah gave us rules for war. Do not cut the trees, do not harm the women, nor harm the children or the elderly. Do not wage war unless there is a valid reason.
After two rounds, you still fail to answer my question: why would God, who's supposed to be perfect and flawless, do such a ridiculous thing like splitting his soul into three? What did that benefit him? And here you fully admit that Jesus was a human like everyone else. Okay, so let's say he's the 'Chosen One' (like you said in the last round). For us, Muhammad (PBUH) is something like the Chosen One too, but we don't worship him. Why do you worship Jesus if he was CREATED? He didn't create humans. You should only worship the God who created you, and Jesus was, (and I quote you saying) "Just a human". So what if he had a third of God's soul? He still didn't create you, so you shouldn't worship him. And as for you saying that Jesus was a way of God showing his religion to the people through a person, that is the same with Muhammad (PBUH), and even Jesus, in our religion! Yet we still refuse to worship Jesus or Muhammad (PBUH) because we only worship Allah, the creator of everything!
And no, I DID add pluses. The format of debate.org simply didn't show them. No, no it isn't 1x1x1. You are saying he SPLIT his soul. Let's do some math word problems here. SPLIT=divided. So, 1 divided by 3 can never be one. Better example? I think so.
Yes, yes Jesus is special, even in our religion. That doesn't, I repeat, make him worthy of your worshiping, even if he DID die for our sins (which, again, is completely illogical)! His devotion to God should make him more like a role model than a God!
Okay, let's pretend that the impossible is possible, and that Jesus DID die for our sins, and that the Trinity is true. What was the whole POINT of Jesus dying for our sins if he was going to be resurrected anyways? Adds more to the point that the Trinity isn't, and never will be, logical enough to be the base of a whole religion.
Did you not read my whole debate round? Oh for the love of God, I hate repeating. I said that Allah doesn't expect a creature as imperfect as us humans to never sin more than once. He expects us to deeply regret what we did in order to earn his forgiveness! Even if we sin again, he will forgive us if we deserve it! Forgiveness is a very valuable and hard-to-earn thing from just humans, so what if we were talking about our all-powerful creator GOD?
And your blunt description of the Qur'an just doesn't fit the theme of this whole debate. This is a formal debate about religion, and I think that you fail to understand that. How in the heavens does "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." mean "Violence is what you need. I don't care if you don't think so, it's true."? Please, please try to speak formally and explain the verse right, I'm begging you.
Yes, he shall cast terror in the heart of disbelievers. In the Qur'an, it clearly states that if a human was presented with the true image of Islam and still chooses to worship another God, they will live in Hell for the rest of their afterlives. On the other hand, if a human was presented with the false image of Islam being a corrupted religion full of violence, it isn't really their fault, in which case Allah will test them on the Day of Judgement to see if they would've been believers if they were presented with true Islam images.
'Way over the top!'? Oh please, read your own Bible.
"Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all difference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. for it is to your credit if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly." 1 Peter 2:18
"Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" Psalm 137:9
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination." Leveticus 18:22. In Islam, being gay is a sin, but we're taught to treat them with respect, just like any other straight human being. In the Bible, though, it says that you should kill them and hate them. What a peaceful, truly inspiring book.
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21 NAB
"Kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls who have not known a man... Keep them alive for yourselves." Moses 31:17
Moving on to the contradictions...
"God's attributes are revealed in his works." 1:20, "God's attributes cannot be discovered." Job 11:7.
Back to the amazing and peaceful Bible verses...
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or your intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your family have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare him or shield him, but kill him." Deuteronomy 13:7-12
"The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the lord said, "I will wipe from the face of earth the human race I have created- and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground- for I regret I have made them. Genesis 6:6
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." Epshesians 6:5 NLT.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matt 19:24
So, to start, I would like to say that fighting is in no way a good thing! Fighting and definently are two completely different things! You descibe defending and call it fighting.
After two rounds, no, I haven't gotten to why, because you have yet to do anything but close your eyes, plug your ears, and say "Nope! Not possible!" I didn't bother explaining something you didn't understand! No matter, I'll continue anyways.
So, I will make this clear, (I'm sorry if this was not clear earlier)- GOD DID NOT MAKE THE TRINITY, HE IS THE TRINITY! God is made up of three distinctly seperate couterparts. I'm sorry I did not portray this well earlier in the debate.
So yes, Jesus is God. But, he is also taking the role of a human who will spread the word of God. So, in worshipping Jesus, we do worship God. And also, saying that we should only worship the one who created us is like saying (and yes I know love and worship are different) that we should only love our parents, not our step-parents.
Ok, so I apologize about the pluses thing, but how about instead of math, we equate religion (and the trinity) to the beauty of the earth God created for us- specifically, clovers! “You tell us that there are three gods and yet one,” the puzzled Irish said when St. Patrick was preaching the gospel to them in the 5th century AD. “How can that be?” The saint bent down and plucked a shamrock. “Do you not see,” he said, “how in this wildflower three leaves are united on one stalk, and will you not then believe that there are indeed three persons and yet one God?”
Oh, I hope you did not just say that " the Trinity isn't, and never will be, logical enough to be the base of a whole religion."! Do you mean, beside for the fact that there already is a major religion based off of it? That's illogical, not the base of my religion!
About the verse, that is how I interpret it! I'm sorry for not speaking formally, but I see that verse as, "Allah knows that violence is what you need, even if you don't see it that way!"
So I guess I won't even get into that next point, because I know my God will help me into Heaven, and I'm sure (not being sarcastic or anything, I promise) that you are certain that what you have talked about is completely and utterly true to you. But, it is not that way to me and I will worship my God.
Now, to the bible verses you quoted. I have yet to see you do anything but pull "bad" quotes from the bible into this, and I have not seen any GOOD quotes from the Qur'an coming from you. I will also point out that a majority of the quotes from the bible that you use are from the old testement, which contains rules Jesus himself said are not of importance anymore. Most christians do not follow the old testement's laws as their laws.
So, yes, I fully believe that Christianity is the superior religion, but I clearly have some bias! Thanks for the great debate!
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