The Instigator
Amarandum
Pro (for)
The Contender
joshuar1996
Con (against)

Islam is Not a Religion of Peace

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Debate Round Forfeited
joshuar1996 has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 12 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 398 times Debate No: 99179
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Amarandum

Pro

Anyone who would like to argue that Islam is tolerant or a force for good is welcome to debate me. I hold an atheistic view of Allah and the Koran. Any contenders must agree to the format:
R1: Acceptance Round Only
R2: Opening Arguments
R3: Rebuttals
R4: Closing Remarks
joshuar1996

Con

hello! I accept your argument !

this will be fun! I am a protestant but I will be an unbiased contender and establish why this is happening and why Islam isn't a religion of violence
Debate Round No. 1
Amarandum

Pro

Much thanks to my opponent for agreeing to debate this topic. Good luck to him/her.
One thing I"m not going to do in this debate is fear-monger. I won"t argue that your Muslim neighbors down the street are plotting a terrorist attack, or try to convert everyone to to agnosticism. I do not think we should judge Islam off of the works of Osama bin Laden alone. Please don't misunderstand my case
What I do think we can and should judge Islam off of is:
-What the majority of Muslims worldwide actually believe.
-What their Holy Book, the Koran actually says.
I contend that these two things by themselves will prove to anyone with a western notion of life and liberty that Islam certainly isn't peaceful.
As per Pew Research statistics, the majority of Muslim nations worldwide support the implementation of Sharia Law (the Islamic religious law), which includes punishments like stoning and flogging for women who remove their veil, women who leave the house without a man, or a husband and wife kissing in public. But even these punishments are not comparable to the one awaiting homosexuality; death.
Ayatollah Ali Sistani, an influential Muslim cleric and Sharia authority has said of homosexuality: "Forbidden. Those involved in the act should be punished. In fact, sodomites should be killed in the worst manner possible." Indeed, today there are ten Middle Eastern countries that kill homosexuals simply for being gay.
And what condemnation do we hear from the Islamic world? Hardly any. In fact, the vast majority of Muslims in Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Tunisia, Niger, Djibouti, Congo, Nigeria, Uganda, Ethiopia, Mozambique, Kenya, Mali, Ghana, and Senegal actually support Sharia! If Islam, on the whole, is a religion of peace, my opponent has to explain to me why a few million moderate Muslims (who, let's be honest, probably aren't all that devout) have more influence over their religion than all the nations named above, and their hundreds of millions of adherents.
Even in Turkey, the Muslim success story, one poll found that 32% percent of its Islamic believers think that honor killings of women can sometimes be justified. Turkey is considered extraordinarily progressive, and one third of its Muslims think innocent women can be murdered if they threaten the honor of their husband or father. This is insane! One poll of Muslims living in France found that 35% said that suicide bombings could sometimes be justified. 78% of Muslims living in Great Britain said they wanted people who draw pictures of the Prophet Muhammad to be legally prosecuted. I'd like to hear my opponent argue how exactly this is considered tolerant.
Alright, so the majority of the world's Muslims have radical beliefs, but what about their Holy Text, the Koran? Unfortunately, religious fundamentalism and Iron Age philosophy do not a peaceful book make. I could give an analysis of the text, or I could just quote it verbatim:
"God is the enemy of the unbelievers."(2:98) "Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the last day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger even if they are of the People of The Book (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizya (tithing) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (9:29) "When the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikin (pagans) wherever you find them." (9:5) "When you meet the unbelievers, strike their necks." (47:4) "When your lord revealed to the angels, "truly I am with you. So keep firm those who have believed. I will strike terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved. So strike them at the necks and cut off their fingers." " (8:12) "Kill them wherever you find them and drive them out from where they drove you out. Persecution is worse than slaughter." (2:191)
There are many more passages beyond these, but space does not permit me to list them here.
Thank you.
joshuar1996

Con

Let me begin with history. The middle east has been a region of the world with wars and violence like east Asia and Europe. For a brief time in human history muslim nations were seen as the light of the world. To say the least, the middle east was pretty much dominated by the Ottomans (Turks). Even though it was a monarchy that really didn't allow other religions to obtain power, it did provide a secular nation and rarely went to war with the west. ["After the prophet's death, the Muslim empire continued to expand until the 17th century, when Muslims were unquestionably the world's greatest military force, having conquered extensive territory and converted millions throughout the Middle East and Southern Europe. Islam had also achieved unmatched advances in architecture, art, law, mathematics, and science."]

Unfortunately as time went on, the Ottoman Empire declined and the west began having a covert influence on it as the empire reached its end and after the Balkan wars and WW1, the Islamic empire fell apart become British mandate. This where Islamic radicalism took its origins. As european jews went to Palestine and angered the regions resulting in the 6 days war. On top of that with American intervention in the middle east causing mujahideen to form becoming the known terrorist groups of today.
There is a number of reason why radical Islam exist and why it is so strong. But I'm going to state that every single religion has "radicalism" from the christian crusaders and westboro church to christian persecution in japan. Radicalism takes many forms and it is not only concentrated to Islam. The reason why it's so big today is because how media has become powerful and also how Western influence destabilized dictatorships that prevent radicalism.

You state how " the majority of Muslim nations worldwide support the implementation of Sharia Law (the Islamic religious law), which includes punishments like stoning and flogging for women who remove their veil, women who leave the house without a man, or a husband and wife kissing in public. But even these punishments are not comparable to the one awaiting homosexuality; death." Every single other religion has extreme notions where in the bible it says adultery should stoned and in the Torah only a select few can be jews. Now, I'm not vowing out for killing homosexuals. I am saying every region and country has their own laws, culture, and traditions. For example, in India marriage arrangements are seen as taboo in the usa; while interracial marriage is seen as taboo all over the world. Just because you disagree with a countries laws or religious notions, it doesn't mean we should change them.

Look at Iraq, we had an urge for freedom and democracy, to stop Hussein from having WMDs but all it caused is the the Islamic terrorism in the Europe and a further divided western world. Turkey has contain its radical Islamism because of its secularism and not being democrat; noting how europe basically hates turkey.

So, what other Islamic majority wants sharia law. we shouldn't do anything about it because it'll make problems worse. Sometimes doing nothing has the best outcome.

Overall, my opponents states that the majority of Muslims are extreme and we should do something about it. I have stated many examples on how peace the middle east was before western influence and how western intervention destroyed its stability and how doing something will make the problem a lot worse then it is now.

Schanzer, Jonathan. "At War With Whom?: A Short History of Radical Islam." Middle East Forum. N.p., n.d. Web. 21 Jan. 2017.
Debate Round No. 2
Amarandum

Pro

"it did provide a secular nation and rarely went to war with the west."
That's my point exactly! Secularism is the best way to run a nation. What do you primarily see in the Islamic world? Theocracy. Their nations are wealthy because of exports of oil. In every other area they flounder because they put their faith in the Koran instead of science and ingenuity. Of course a secular Muslim empire did well.
"Islam had also achieved unmatched advances in architecture, art, law, mathematics, and science."
Unmatched a thousand years ago? What major university exists in the Islamic world today? Why talk about the golden age of Islam that existed a thousand years ago when people today are being murdered and tortured in the name of Islam? If any one group have contributed the most to science, it's the Jews. Something like a third of all Nobel Prizes have been to Jewish laureates. What group of people are the most vilified in Islam? Jews. Interesting coincidence.
"jews went to Palestine and angered the regions resulting in the 6 days war."
This is simply not true. After decades of tense relations, Egypt mobilized forces along the Israeli border, prompting Israel to strike Egyptian air force bases. Given the relationship of the nations at the time, as well as the high level of antisemitism in the area, Israel can hardly be blamed for starting the Six Day War.
"American intervention in the middle east causing mujahideen to form becoming the known terrorist groups of today."
Osama bin Laden said that he was prompted to coordinate the 9/11 terrorist attacks because of our presence in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. I'd like to put forward the radical notion that this is a poor reason to kill 3,000 innocent people. Does anyone seriously think that the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was justified? Whether or not there were WMDs involved, the US remembered the last time a genocidal dictator invaded his neighbors and no one put a stop to it. This had nothing to do with Imperialism. As for troops in Saudi Arabia, America maintains bases in many foreign countries! Bin Laden, devout Muslim that he was, was angered that infidels were stationed so close to Mecca. Which do you think is a more likely cause of Islamic extremism, the US having boots on the ground in the Middle East, or the legacy of conquest and violence left behind by the Prophet?
"every single religion has "radicalism" from the christian crusaders and westboro church to christian persecution in japan."
The Crusades were largely a response to centuries of hostility from the neighbors of the nations involved. Nobody denies every religion has it's wackos, but it is wildly disingenuous to compare a preacher who says homosexuality is bad, and a plethora of nations where it is legal to throw gays off of buildings. Or one Christian bombing of an abortion clinic that kills like, ten people, and whole nations that say you can beat a woman to death if she shows her face. Come on. This point deserves an Olympic Gold Medal in intellectual gymnastics.
"Every single other religion has extreme notions where in the bible it says adultery should stoned"
So... you're saying the horrors of the Koran, which are followed to the letter by hundreds of millions of people, should be allowed to exist because the Bible says regressive stuff too? What nation is actually following through with the Bible's commands? When was the last time someone who drew an unflattering picture of Moses got beheaded?
"Just because you disagree with a countries laws or religious notions, it doesn't mean we should change them."
Even if they're supporting a patriarchal theocracy? Even if they lead to the rape and murder and genital mutilation of millions of innocent people? Even if they acknowledge that the end of the world will mean it's redemption? Why not? Because that wouldn't be very tolerant of us?
In your next argument, I'd like to hear you justify the quotes I offered. Do they have no effect on what Muslims do?
Thank you.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Amarandum 11 months ago
Amarandum
Who do you guys think won?
Posted by jewishgayandsmart9 11 months ago
jewishgayandsmart9
Classic Liberal - Forfeited
Posted by Whulfson 12 months ago
Whulfson
I'm liking this debate, so far voting for Pro but I think I'm going to see how this finishes up first.
Posted by vi_spex 12 months ago
vi_spex
religion is war
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