The Instigator
CuriousFear
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Bored_Debater
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Islam is a religion of peace

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/21/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 446 times Debate No: 94896
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

CuriousFear

Pro

This debate will be about whether Islam itself is a violent religion or a religion that promotes peace.
If you challenge me you will be on the Con side and therefore you will argue that Islam is a religion of hatred and violence. We will go no further than the Sunnah and the Qur'an and we won't look at what other Muslims are doing.
Websites like thereligionofpeace.com / wikiislam and answering-muslims.com should be avoided. Thereligionofpeace.com continuously lies and spread false information, WikiIslam is a wiki that anyone can edit and answering-muslims is a very dodgy website run by Christian apologists.
Contrary to popular belief in most western cultures, Islam is a religion that preaches peace and tolerance. Islam has a dual meaning, the first is submission and the second is peace. The idea is that when you submit, you attain peace.
Round 1: Opinion
Round 2: Arguments
Round 3: Refutation to round 2 and final arguments.
Bored_Debater

Con

Let me start this off by saying that I'm an atheist that has no ill feeling towards Islam or any other religion. I don't much believe that Islam is as "peaceful and tolerant" as you try to make it out to be.

With that said, I will quote from the Quran, "Slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them " such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah"s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers." [1]

"Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends, rather than the believers " for who so does that belongs not to Allah in anything " unless you have a fear of them. Allah warns you that You beware of Him, and unto Allah is the homecoming." [1]

"Believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." [1]

"When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, "I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers" hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!"" [1]

"Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah"s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do." [1]

"Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden " such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book " until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled." [1]

There are also plenty of quotes speaking of hateful things regarding Jews. [1]

As you just stated in round one, Islam has a duel purpose, submission then peace. This sounds warlike, submit then you will have peace. Convert or die...

You asked to not mention the wars being fought against Muslims right now, surely they would help me with my argument that Islam isn't a religion of peace. I will however, mention multiple incidents of the actions of Muslims from the past.

The Charlie Hebdo shooting, Muslims murdered over 12 people over the comedic newspaper making fun of Islam. [2]

Islamic law allows slavery but prohibits enslaving other Muslims. [3] This is by no means shows tolerance for others.

In 1786, the United States sent Thomas Jefferson and John Adams to negotiate an end to the unprovoked attacks that the Muslims from the Barbary States. They asked, why war upon nations who had done them no injury? The reply they received is as follows.

"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once." [4]

This response led America's first war against Islamic forces aimed at forcing the United States towards Islam.

[1] http://worldmediamonitoring.com...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
CuriousFear

Pro

Thanks for responding to my debate. I will pretend as if your arguments count for round 2. You will be able to refute me in round 3.

You find some non-Muslims pick up the Qur'an and they say "This Qur'an preaches terrorism". No, the Qur'an is furthest away from terrorism, but they have not understood the Qur'an. The Qur'an has verses of history, verses where history is recorded, they translate it as if they are commands for me. No, they're not commands. When Allah SWT says "Fight them". He has addressed to those people of Muhammad SAW and Allah SWT says drive them out, take them out of the same place they drove you out from. What was that place? That was Makkah. The believers were driven out of Makkah and so Allah SWT instructs them that now you have the permission to drive them back out of there. Right before the prophet Muhammad SAW entered Makkah he said "Today is the day of forgiveness". Note: That there are also verses that talk about the Battle of Badr in the Qur'an.
Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...
http://english.irib.ir...
and Mufti Menk's Full Lecture on terrorism

I quote from the Qur'an: Al-Baqarah [2:256] "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing."

We can find that chapter 109 Al-Kafirun clearly is about freedom of religion. https://quran.com...
Furthermore, we can find in many authentic Hadiths that Muhammad SAW lived with non-Muslims in peace. This is proof that the "convert or die" statement is completely false.

Again, (18:29) says: And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place.

You have groups in every religion that are military, but let me tell you something in terms of the teachings. We believe that there is war, but you tell me a nation that says to the people: Do not kill women, do not kill children, do not kill elderly, do not kill the sick, do not kill those who do not participate in fighting, do not kill with fire, do not kill an animal (excluding: for food), do not kill those dedicated to worship (no matter what religion they follow), do not burn or cut down a tree, do not destroy a house or pillage a village, do not betray and protect the houses of Allah (Including: Mosques, Synagogues and Churches). Which nation on earth applies these to their warfare? None. They bomb factories, cities and villages, they bomb women and children right in front of our eyes.
Sources: http://1000gooddeeds.com...
http://myjihad.org...
http://www.islam101.com...

Now before I start talking about the basic principles I would like to speak out against two common misconceptions. These two are the beating of your wives and Taqiyya. Let me start of with Taqiyya. Taqiyya is a Shia concept that is even rejected by most Shias. The word Taqiyya is not mentioned in any Hadith and is not mentioned in the Qur'an. The idea is that we can intentionally lie about our faith, this is just not true. Muslims can't lie and this is considered a major sin. There are 3 permissible lies in Islam, here is a quick rundown on those 3 permissible lies:
https://www.youtube.com...

Now, let me talk about the beating of your wives. [al-Baqarah 2:228] mentions that women have rights over their husbands like husbands have rights over their wives. This verse indicates that the man has additional rights, commensurate with his role as protector and maintainer and his responsibility of spending (on his wife) etc.

The rules are as followed. 1.You can't beat her in front of the children 2.You can't hit her face or any other place that is sensitive 3.You're not allowed to cause her pain 4. You're not allowed to cause bruises, bleeding or broken bones. 5. You can't curse/insult her either.
So in conclusion, you can't beat her.
Sources: goo.gl/B55iRI
http://www.islamawareness.net...
(The Noble Quran, 4:19, 24:26, 30:21)

In regards to slavery. Islam deals with slaves like no other nation on earth. A quick rebuttal to the claims of rape is easy. A man can not have sexual intercourse with a woman without her permission otherwise that would be rape so surely the only way you could have sex with a slave is if she fell in love with you and wanted to have sex with you.
Sources: http://www.answering-christianity.com...
http://islamicresponse.blogspot.nl...

In regards to Jews and Muslims, we can find that throughout history Muslims and Jews lived in harmony and peace together. Most civilisations wanted to get rid of Jews and hated Jews. The Jews had the greatest time of their history in Al-Andalus, which was controlled by Muslims. The Muslims are not the ones who slaughtered the Jews during World War 2, it were the Christian Nazis. Just go to Rabbi Tovia's YouTube channel, most of his viewers are Muslim.
Source: https://goo.gl...

Now let's talk about some basic principles. Drugs are prohibited. Alcohol is prohibited. Suicide is prohibited. Bribery is prohibited. Charity is obligatory. You can't disturb others. You can't insult others. You must always listen to your parents (unless the command is to not worship Allah). Hurting yourself is prohibited. Calling a believer a kaafir is prohibited. Committing murder is prohibited. You are not allowed to curse anyone. Gambling is prohibited. Being arrogant is prohibited. Slandering innocent women is prohibited. Looking at women out of lust is prohibited. Adultery and fornication is prohibited. Mosques should be simplistic. Prostitution is prohibited. The best way to respond to insults and hate is to forgive. Torture is prohibited. Killing animals and even insects not for food is prohibited. Cleanliness is very important in Islam. Mocking someone's belief is also prohibited. Controlling your anger is recommended and there are many more teachings. Having sex with your wife is prohibited if it is against her will. Source: https://islamqa.info... and www.youtube.com/user/themercifulservant

Muslims were labeled as the most charitable people more than tripling the atheists' donations per person.
http://www.middleeasteye.net...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk...
Bored_Debater

Con

I will pass over my 2nd round since I spoke of my 'opinion' and made my argument in the 1st round.
Debate Round No. 2
CuriousFear

Pro

Let me start of by saying that a peaceful religion does not equal a pacifist religion, rather Islam is also a religion of realism that recognizes that there is indeed evil in this world.
In regards to your quoting, I already mentioned that they had to do with the taking of Mecca or they had to do with other battles (e.g. The Battle of Badr).
The first verses you mentioned starting with slay them wherever you find them are meant for war. The Holy Mosque you mentioned is Masjid Al-Haram (https://en.wikipedia.org...). There was a battle at this Mosque and it was commanded that if the non-Muslims would cease, the Muslims should cease. At the victory of Makkah, Muhammad SAW made it quite clear that those who put down their weapons as well, shall not be touched or harmed.
When it is said that you should not take the disbelievers/Christians or Jews as friends it is meant that they couldn't be taken as allies (Especially during war). We can also see that Muhammad SAW had non-Muslims as neighbors and friends. I have already proven to you that there is no compulsion in religion when it comes to Islamic rules.
http://www.answering-christianity.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
"But if they (the enemies) incline to peace, then you (also) incline to it, and put your trust in Allah"" (Surah al-Anfal, 8:61)

99.9% of Muslim scholars disagree with these forms of terrorist attacks. Again, I have proven that these kind of terrorist attacks are considered as extremely major sins. All of these terrorist attack include the killing of innocent people and killing one innocent soul is like killing all of mankind. On top of that, one of the principles of Sharia is that you follow the law of the land that you live in. Isn't killing illegal? I've already shown you that killing someone illegally will put you outside the fold of Islam. What Hadith or Qur'anic text speak about hostage taking? The answer is none and yet the " Islamic extremists" are doing that. Why is that?

"Whosoever kills a person without any reason (of murder or mischief in the earth), it is as though he has killed all the people. And whosoever saves a single life, it is as though he has saved all the people." (Surah al-Maaida, 5:32)

Notice how saving people is also mentioned, that is what you call Jihad and martyrdom.

I find it funny that you talk about events where only a few dozen people were killed while the United States is still murdering, bombing and slaughtering millions and millions of Muslims with the help of Israel and Britain. Why did general Allenby declare that the crusades are over when he entered Jerusalem? Isn't it weird for a secular state to continue the crusades that was started by the Pope a 1,000 years before? The US has been at war for 212 of the 238 years of its existence and they're supposedly not at fault?

Let's take a look at Qur'an 25:63: And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,

So even if you insult me with the most disgusting statement, we're commanded to respond peacefully.

Scrolling further down in this chapter we can find how merciful God is again.
Qur'an 24:68-70: And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right [lawfully by Islam and by state], and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty. And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty. Except for those who repent, believe and do righteous work. For them Allah will replace their evil deeds with good. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

Before you might add Jizyah to the discussion let me talk about it. Jizyah is a tax for non-Muslims under Sharia Law, but hang on. Why do the non-Muslims have to pay this tax while the Muslims don't? First off, the Muslims already pay their Zakah for the poor. Secondly, only healthy non-Muslim men paid the Jizyah, women, elderly and the sick didn't. Thirdly, all of the Jizyah goes to the poor (including poor non-Muslims). Lastly, Muslim men were obliged to fight in war, non-Muslim men weren't because of the Jizyah.
https://www.quora.com...
http://www.answering-christianity.com...

Islam is a religion of peace, when we greet each other we say "May peace be upon you" and not "May death be upon you", which a woman used to say to Muhammad SAW in a poem.
"Allah does not love corruption". (Surah al-Baqara, 205)

Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight. (Al-Ma'idah 5:16)

With the laws I presented it is clear that Islam does condemn terrorism and that Islam commands Muslims to be kind and forgiving towards others.

A man asked the Messenger of Allah (A018;): "Which act in Islam is the best?" He (A018;) replied, "To give food, and to greet everyone, whether you know or you do not." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

The Prophet (A018;) passed by a mixed company of people which included Muslims, polytheists and Jews, and he gave them the greeting (i.e., saying As- Salamu 'Alaikum).
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

The Jews used to intentionally sneeze in the presence of the Messenger of Allah (A018;) hoping that he would say to them: 'Yarhamukum-ullah (may Allah have mercy on you),' but he would respond with: "Yahdikum-ullahu wa yuslihu balakum (may Allah guide you and render sound your state of affairs)."
[Abu Dawud and At- Tirmidhi].

Muhammad SAW clearly lived with non-Muslims in peace.
Bored_Debater

Con

The quotes that I found from the Quran is preaching war. At the very least this proves that Islam isn't solely a religion of peace like it is claimed to be but war as well which means it isn't a religion of peace. I will also curb the mentioning of the actions of the US & other nations. We are talking about Islam & what its preaches, not Christian nations actions & beliefs. Rather Christianity is the most warmongering religion or not is irrelevant. Rather Islam is a religion of peace or not is what is relevant.

"The first verses you mentioned starting with slay them wherever you find them are meant for war"

Let this be proof that Islam doesn't just preach peace but war as well. I assume that this battle he mentions regards one of the Crusades. The Crusades were launched when Islamic forces continued to expand outward in near all directions. [1] It wasn't until after 400 years of Islam defeating Christians with the eventual invasion of Europe from the west and the east did the Christians start the Crusades [2] to push them out from those lands & it ended with Islam reigning supreme in Africa and the Middle East.

Islam attacked the US without any reason EXCEPT the one that the Quran teaches which is to attack, expand, & enslave. The US didn't start a war with Islam in 1801, it was Islam that started a war with us. Furthermore, as I stated in round 1, slavery. My opponent says "but we treat our slaves better then you treated yours!". I'm sorry, that is a moot point, slavery is slavery, given a choice they would have preferred not to be a slave to a Muslim in which case they were not given such a choice. Muslims expanded aggressively, waged war, enslaved non Muslim nations & peoples. This proves beyond doubt that Islam is not a religion of peace. For as long as there was slavery in the United States, & even before its discovery, Muslims attacked, raped, & enslaved non believers. [3]

I have no doubt that you can muster quotes of tolerance & peace. I can just as easily find quotes of intolerance & war, as I previously did. My ability to so easily find such hateful statements of intolerance towards Jews, Christians, & other non believers, & the methods of war, rather they were warranted or not Proves that Islam isn't one with peace. On your statements that Islam fights wars in defense. It simply isn't true. The Barbary Wars unequivocally proves your statement false. It proves that Islam is not a religion of peace for it preaches & practices those things, For a religion of peace to be a religion of peace, it can't call for relentless jihad that sees fit to subdue & convert nations and peoples' which is what they do and did. [4]. Enslaving non believers cause they are non believers is by absolutely no means a tolerant and peaceful religion. Waging a war with non Muslim nations because they are non Muslim nations is by absolutely no means a tolerant and peaceful religion. [5] I easily prove that the they exist with your acknowledgement of them, followed with the sources I've provided.

I feel I've adequately proved that Islam isn't just a religion of peace & tolerance, Islam promotes slavery of non believers, promotes war in an effort to subdue, convert, and force tributes on non Islamic nations. Historically, Islam can been seen to rapidly conquer vast swaths of land in Jihad against non believers. Say that it is ok for them to do so because of the very quotes I quoted in this debate, ones that the Barbary states ambassador made to the United States when asked why start a war with us when we've done nothing to you. With my opponents acknowledgement of their existence, with the proved expansionist policies of Islam which can only lead to war, and the sources proving these to be true, I ask that voters to vote con. I'd also like to thank my opponent for creating this debate.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] https://www.youtube.com...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CuriousFear 3 months ago
CuriousFear
Dylan Roof went ahead and killed 9 people in a Church in the name of his race and he invoked a cause, which he himself believed. The very people that belonged to that race did not have to issue statements. So why is it when a Muslim goes mad, who does not even practice Islam, the entire religion is to blame?
Posted by canis 3 months ago
canis
It is your "talk" against.."Realety"..The realety is what happens in the name of islam....
Posted by CuriousFear 3 months ago
CuriousFear
I can upload a dick pic on Facebook and say that I did it in the name of Islam. Is that the message of Islam then? No, off course not. I can invite people to the mosques by inviting strippers to the mosque, but can I do that? We could never do that. So why is Islam to blame for something that Islam doesn't approve?
Posted by canis 3 months ago
canis
Yes it is ok to say "what happens in the name of islam is not in the name of islam"..
Posted by CuriousFear 3 months ago
CuriousFear
Cainis, I've look at the website you commented on here. Again, I scroll and I find a bunch of lies. Especially when Allah was called a moon God. This claim by the Christians is so laughable that even the Jews have come out to refute it. If you'd like to challenge me for a debate you can go ahead, but this is not your debate.
Posted by canis 3 months ago
canis
Yep. I guess a murder has peace with his victims...
Posted by vi_spex 3 months ago
vi_spex
non sense
Posted by missmedic 3 months ago
missmedic
How to beat your wife Islam style.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Does Islam allow freedom of religion or does it threaten the death penalty for apostasy?
http://islam.stackexchange.com...
http://www.answering-islam.org...
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