The Instigator
TheHitchslap
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
IslamAnswersAll
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points

Islam is a religion of peace

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
TheHitchslap
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,824 times Debate No: 24446
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (3)

 

TheHitchslap

Con

It is my position that Islam is NOT a religion of peace

1) Acceptance
2) Arguments
3) Arguments / rebuttals
4) Conclusion / final comments
IslamAnswersAll

Pro

Peace on All
In this Debate, I will be taking the position, that Islam is a Religion of Peace and God Willingly, will be Providing Necessary Arguments for the Same.
Debate Round No. 1
TheHitchslap

Con

First thank you for taking me up on this debate. I want to make it very clear that two of my best friends in University are Muslims (practices of Islam) and although I hope I do not offend anyone; we must criticize everything to determine what we know. For the name of freedom of speech, and to make the world a better place. If you are a Muslim reading this and may get offended here is your warning. DO NOT CONTINUE READING. Offenses here on in are the responsibility of not ME but that of the reader, Those interested for a serious debate may continue.

Apostasy:
In accordance with Islam, I ask my opponent what is the punishment for leaving Islam? It will not be found in the Qu'ran, because it is found within Sharia law. The punishment is death. Only in the circumstances of converting under duress and/or suffering a mental disorder does this not happen. I ask the audience is this peaceful? I think not.
It gets worse. For women, they must either convert to Islam OR be put to death with no chance of escape. This is under the fiqh, or Islamist Jurisprudence.
Source: Heffening, W. (1993). "Murtadd". In C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel, W.P. Heinrichs, et al.. Encyclopaedia of Islam. 7. Brill Academic Publishers. ISBN 978-90-04-09419-2.

Salman Rushdie:
An author whom wrote the Satanic Verses caused immense controversy. This is due to a character whom was not based on -though closely related too in the Islamic World- the prophet Muhammod. This turned violent with several protests in Islamic countries, and has received criticism for freedom of speech. Furthermore several people died including assassination attempts on Rushdie's life for 'blasphemy' and 'disbelieving'. To this DAY, Rushdie had to hide in fear for his life after Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini of Iran issued a fatwā ordering Muslims to kill Rushdie on sight. Several deaths and bombings resulted in this. Iran continuously sends him a so-called valentines day card kindly reminding him of them looking to kill Rushdie. How is this peaceful exactly?
Source: "Rushdie's term". Retrieved 15 February 2007.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Punishment for Women:
The Qu'ran supports not only slavery, but the beating of wives within the house holds. "4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands' absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem)" -Qu'ran
Not only does this show that Islam is NOT of peace, but a religion that SUPPORTS domestic violence. What morally normal person believes in this exactly I ask you?

Finally: Islam means to 'submit'. And seeks not to rest until every individual is under the banner of Islam. Muhammod was very successful in spreading the religion NOT by charisma, but by the tip of the sword. I shall continue on these points later.

Thank you for your time, good luck to Pro!
IslamAnswersAll

Pro

Before starting, I thank Con for his time, and the well laid points he has put forth. I agree with his method of Criticizing the Subject, to know more about it. It is known as Critical Scholarship.

I find it necessary, to explain the Sources of Islam and terms, as I see them being misrepresented or in other terms "misunderstood"

1."ISLAM"- In Arabic, "Islam" means submission or surrender – however, it is also derived from another root word "salam", Meaning peace and safety. [1]

2."Muslim" – A Muslim is a PERSON, who acts Islam, In other terms, Muslims act themselves as Muslims when they follow Islam. Thus, Islam is Perfect, but Muslims aren't. If a Muslim, doesn't act upon Islam, then he isn't acting as a Muslim at that Point of time. Hence, Islam is NOT what Muslims do, It is what Muslims are supposed to do. For Example, Hitler, who claimed to be a Christian, said "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." Page 60, Mein Kampf [2]
These words, are straight and clear, he adheres himself to Christianity, while unjustly killing the Jews. Do you believe in his testimony? I don't !

3.Sharriah- is the Divine law, has two Sources
1.Primary Sources- Quran, and the Authentic Teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), referred to as the Sunnah
2.Secondary Sources- Ijma (Consensus of the Muslim Community) and the qiyas ( Jurisprudence based on Analogy) [3]

Therefore, Quran is NOT the Only major Source of the Sharriah.
Hence, any Scholar, before making a FATWA, has to cite from either one or both of the Major Sources, to implement the same

4.Fatwa- is a legal Opinion [4], given by an Islamic scholar, basing his Opinion on the Quran, and/or the Sunnah. It is to be noted that, the opinion may be valid or invalid based on the evidences one gives to support it.

In this Round, I will be giving my arguments for the Topic "Islam is a religion of Peace"

1.Living Peacefully with All Nations and People
•"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full Knowledge and is well-acquainted (with all things)." (Surah 49, Verse 13).

2.No Room for Racism
The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: "O people! Your God is one and your forefather is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person,except in piety."

3.There is no Compulsion in Religion.
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Surah 2, Verse 256).

4.Islam Doesn't permit to Kill Civilians
Islam prohibits the targeting and killing of all civilians, especially women, children, the elderly, and religious clergy. Enemies, even at time of war, must be treated justly. Prisoners of war have basic human rights,and must be provided and cared for and not humiliated in any way.
•"O Prophet! say to those who are captives in your hands: If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Surah 8, Verse 70).

•And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive, (Saying), We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks." (Surah 76, Verses 8-9).

In addition, the following were the instructions of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) to Muslims who are forced to fight a war:
•"Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,' and he mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis. And he said, "Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies. [6]
"Stop O people, that I may give you ten rules to keep by heart: Do not commit treachery, nor depart from the right path. You must not mutilate, nither kill a child or aged man or woman. Do not destroy a palm tree, nor burn it with fire and do not cut a fruitfull tree. You must not slay any of the flock or herds or the camels, save for your subsistence. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them to that which they have devoted their lives. You are likely, likewise, to find people who will present to you meals of many kinds. You may eat, but do not forget to mention the name of Allah". [7]

5.When are Muslims Permitted to Fight?

1.For Persecution and Injustice
"Permission [to fight] is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and God is certainly able to support them [with victory].They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is God." If it were not for God's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques - where the name of God is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, God supports those who support Him. God is Powerful, Almighty." (Surah 22, Verses 39-40).

2.For Retaliation
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress; for Allah loveth not transgressors." (Surah 2, Verse 190)

6.Islam Prohibits Violence and Aggression , and stands for Peace and Justice
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress; for Allah loveth not transgressors." (Surah 2, Verse 190)
"But if they cease (fighting you), Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Surah 2, Verse 192).

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things)." (Surah 8, Verse 61).

"God advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take heed." (Surah 16, Verse 90).

"Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!" (Surah 41, Verse 34).

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." ( Surah 4, Verse 135)

The Prophet (PBUH) said "The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed." [8]

I will continue further, with my arguments, and rebuttals, in the next Round, To Sum up

Former President George Bush:

"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule." The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war" [9]

[1] http://muslimvoices.org...
[2] http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
[3] http://thisissunnah.com...
[4] http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
[5] Narrated in Mosnad Ahmad #22978
[6][Ahmad, Diya'al-Din alkamushKhanawi, Ramuz al-Ahadith, vol 1, 76/12]
[7] [Tabari, Ta' rikh, 1, 1850]
[8] Muslim and Al-Bukhari
[9]http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...
Debate Round No. 2
TheHitchslap

Con

Thank you to pro for his time. I'm glad we can see eye to eye about an honest discussion free from coercion and the decision to show us other cultures. My respect for you is immense. May the best man win!

First though I must protest that Pro actually told a blatant lie to the audience, and this should be corrected. Islam DOES mean submission, we agree. However, he claims that it is derived from the word Salam meaning peace. This is NOT THE CASE. Islam is from the word 'al-silm' which literally means submission. If it were true that Islam also meant peace and security al-silm and al-salam would be the same word. This is not the case thus we can conclude through logic Islam only means submission. Furthermore, one Muslim scholar even says "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law." - Ibrahim Sulaiman. So either Pro is lying or misguided, in either case it really does not matter as not all scholars agree that through SUBMISSION will peace come. Therefore in order for peace to ensue everyone must become a Muslim through force and indicates that it is NOT a religion of peace.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Second I must again protest the claim that Muslims may be irresponsible but not Islam. This is a fallacy at best. Again, the Islamic world seeks to put Salam Rushdie to death (something I have noticed he has NOT refuted directly at all but instead plays linguistic games). The source above indicate that even the slightest indication of the prophet Muhammad may result in a militant response not only by the people of any Islamic country, but their leaders as well. He never refutes this. Also I ask of this: Name one country that is an Islamic state that has a higher quality of life than that of North America (whichever is the lesser) by that of a third party organization (i.e. Reporters without borders). North America isn't even number 1, yet no Islamic state will defeat them because Islam is not a nation of peace. They are riddled with crime, lack a middle class due to severe punishments, and on top of that are in a consistent state of war. Even the Shiite and Sunni Muslims persecute one another. I again ask you; what religion is peaceful that suppresses freedom of speech, and even persecutes their own members? Even worse in the article below done by a member of Islam, a man murdered his wife simply for denying him sex. The person showing the article even makes a mention that 'praise this pious person for upholding Islamic values'. So if Muslims cannot be held responsible for Islam, then Islam must be the problem, otherwise why would such an individual do such a thing? Why don't Buddhists kill then as well?
http://thechroniclesofislam.blogspot.ca...

Third: This will further my point later in this debate. I shall not touch this for now.

Fourth: still does not account for Rushdie. Even if it did you only further my point that Islam is a violent religion; as Rushdie fears for his life for creating a character in the Satanic Verses Controversy that was close to Muhammad. Therefore if a fatwa is a legal opinion binding on the scholar that looks terrible upon the religion as a whole.

Under Islam here is the long list of apologies this kind sir would have to make before claiming they are a religion of peace:
Discrimination against Women (female gender mutilations, Sharia law requiring the Burka, 'justified' domestic disputes)
Discrimination against Shiites
Bombings and death threats after the Norwegian Muhammad controversy (not even in Norway these people were blowing up their own homes in the Middle East out of anger!)
Discrimination against the Jews
and Children due to Muhammad marrying a 9 year old (in which she would lead several campaigns after Muhammad died to spread Islam ... again making it not peaceful!)

Again I ask: what is the penalty for apostasy in Islam? What would happen to me in the Middle East if we were to have this debate? And why does the Qu'ran justify slapping a woman when a man even fears -just a little suspicion by her tone of voice for example- her 'highhandedness' according to the Qu'ran? How many campaigns had Muhammad led?

I turn it over to Pro
IslamAnswersAll

Pro

To Continue,
7.Apostasy
Before answering Cons Question, I am going to turn this argument back on my opponent, and therefore, it is yet another argument for my case.

Let me first think of this Question, would non Muslims have the same right in retaliation to impose the death penalty on any non Muslim who converted to Islam? If the answer is no, then Muslims are operating double-standards, which would be incompatible with the teachings of Islam.

Apostasy (riddah) literally means to "to turn back" [10]
Quran on Apostasy
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." 2:256
Islam defines clearly in no unambiguous words that there is no compulsion in religion, if Quran clearly says that there is no compulsion in religion, then how could there be punishment for apostasy? If there is, then it goes against the teachings of the above quoted verse.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir 3:89-91
Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn Abbas said, "A man from the Ansar embraced Islam, but later reverted and joined the polytheists. He later on became sorry and sent his people to, `Ask the Messenger of Allah for me, if I can repent.' The verse 3:89 (Verily, those who repent after this (after apostasy) and do righteous deeds, then truly Allah is indeed Forgiving, Merciful.) was revealed and his people sent word to him and HE RE-EMBRACED ISLAM.'
The hadith clearly shows that there "was" and there "is" NO death penalty for apostates in Islam and further, the person came back to Islam by himself by asking the Prophet

Dr Shabbir Ally answers to a question posed at him " A Muslim should be free to leave Islam, if he or she wants [11]
Thus, having produced enough Proof to back up my claim, and to finally answer my opponents Question, Death Punishment is not the Standard Punishment for those who leave Islam. And it applies for both men and women.

On Salman Rushdie, Khomieni's fatwa, as your source rightly said, under the sub heading"Questions of political motivation"[12] , is not associated with Islam, even in the least bit.
As said before, Islam is not what Muslims do, it is what Muslims are supposed to do. Before going further, let me quote what the Quran says about People who,mock the revelations, and messengers
"Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them.." 4:140
"That will be their recompense - [their] hell -for having denied the truth and made My messages and My apostles a target of their mockery." 18:106
Again, the Quran doesn't talk of an earthly punishment!
8.Wife Beating
The Prophet said
I went to the Apostle of Allah and asked him: What do you say about our wives? He replied.., and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Dawud 11:2139)

Under no circumstance is a Muslim allowed to beat his wife
Verse 4:34 with its Context

..And those females whose resistance you fear, then admonish them (f) and abandon them (f) in their sleeping places and go away from them (f). Then if they (f) obeyed you, then look not for any way against them (f). Truly, God had been Lofty, Great. [4:34 Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar]

... As for those women from whom you fear a desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great. [4:34 Progressive Muslims]

The Arabic word used in Noble Verse 4:34 above is "idribuhunna", which is derived from "daraba" which means "beat". The thing with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word "daraba" is that they don't necessarily mean "hit". The word "idribuhunna" for instance, could very well mean to "leave" them. It is exactly like telling someone to "beat it" or "drop it" in English.[13]

Second Round Rebuttals
1.Con said that Islam means 'submission' not 'peace', because allegedly, the root word for Islam is Al-Silm and not Al-Salaam.

First of all, I'd like to clarify that there is only one root word from which both words are derived, it is Silm (not Al-Silm - because the Al would mean it's a noun, and not a root word).

Silm is the root word for many words in classical Arabic including:
Salaam:Greeting (peace be upon you) / also Peaceful in some contexts
Istislaam Surrender / Submission
Silm Peace
Salamah Safety / Well-being[14]

2.In his arguments, Con uses the so called Muslims, to represent Islam. He talks about Rushdies Fatwa, which I have talked earlier, I request my opponent to read the above pasted verses, where people ridiculed and mocked the prophet in front of him. Furthermore, he asks me another question about an Islamic state. To answer him, He has to agree with me with the fact that All Countries are SECULAR. There is no such thing as an Islamic state that Exists now. Therefore his Question is void and insignificant. I mean, there must be an Islamic state to compare with North America. Every single Country in this world is convicted with crimes, and so on, Let me rephrase the Question, and ask Con, to give me a single Country that isn't convicted with Crimes ? If he cant, then this argument, is nothing but , hot air.
He then talks about a Muslim man killing his wife for denying sex, With the same conclusion, he should also agree with these people to be followers of their Religion
1.Hindu Man [15]
2.Christian Pastor [16]
4. Finally, my opponent gives a long list of claims, with no references, and falsely attributes them to Islam. Since a Muslim is supposed to follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet, I would like to ask my opponent , his references from the Quran and/or from the Sunnah, that made this 73 year old follow Islam by killing his wife , and the other claims he made.
Con talks about Discrimination against women, he talks about female circumcision, which is not Islamic, and purely cultural, Many scholars say that ALL the narrations of female circumcision are weak and cant be relied upon [17] ,He then talks about burqa. Let me phrase him a simple Question, "If women are free to choose their ways, why is it a problem, if they choose to cover ?".Con, then talks about Norwegian Muslims, to prove Islam is not Peaceful, I think this debate should have been titled "Muslims are not Peaceful" instead of "Islam- a Religion of Peace"
Last but not the least, my opponent brings the question of the Prophet marrying a 9 year old "Child". First of All, a matured adult can't be called as a child. People of those ages matured fast and married earlier. One such example is of the Byzantine Empire [18], List of young mothers[19]. With that list, I am sure, my opponent would find a LIST OF INCESTS and rapes, which includes his so called Peaceful Continent "North America". In Islam, Marriage is legal, when a women attains her puberty and is matured". Thus, to conclude
Islam is not What Muslims do, Islam is what Muslims are SUPPOSED to Do, Islam is Perfect and Peaceful, Muslims who claim to follow Islam may not be. Thank you Con for your time and Over to you
[10] al-Samari1968; Rahman1972)
[11]
[12]http://en.wikipedia.org...

[13] http://www.answering-christianity.com...
[14] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[15] http://criminalrecordsindia.com...
[16] http://trendysturvs.blogspot.in...
[17] http://www.islamset.com...
[18] http://www.roman-emperors.org...
[19] http://en.wikipedia.org...
WC: 1351
Debate Round No. 3
TheHitchslap

Con

My opponent has offered some very good arguments. I shall counter and I wish him the best of luck in future debates.
On his first question: Catholicism use to have laws regulating apostasy, same as Judaism. They are no longer in effect and are often not taken to be 'literal'. So yes Muslim ARE operating on a double standard and only furthers my argument that Islam is NOT peaceful. I shall continue:
First concerning the video. The individual claims that HE does not believe that an apostate should be put to death upon renouncing Islam. That is an opinion of ONE Muslim. Over 80% of Egyptians in 2010 -one of the most populated locations of Muslims in Africa- believed that apostasy should result in the death penalty.[1] To make matters worse this is also similar in Pakistan. The video also claims that no punishment is mentioned in the Qur'an for apostasy. However the Qur'an does mention that But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief -- Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist. (9:11,12) [2] While it is also true that the Qur'an doesn't specify punishment, Muslims must now turn to the Haddath to look for punishment – which is well known – of death. Even his own video makes mention of this, and places such as Jordan(84%), Egypt(84%), Nigeria (51%) and Pakistan(76%) all agree that apostasy is death.[3]

So .. why the discrepancies then? Why would one Muslim (or because of the debate two) claim that Islam has no punishment for apostasy when several COUNTRIES disagree? Very simple answer: Islam permits Muslims to lie in trying to gain followers. Muhammad said: "Lying is wrong,except in three things: the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for war is deception; or a lie to settle trouble between people" [Ahmad, 6.459. H]. In this case because this is an intellectual despite he is totally within his rights to lie to the audience. I dare say that the audience is much more intelligent than that, do not insult them. But if you still think Islam does not have a punishment for apostasy then I encourage you to look at the following videos (posted to the right). (stated in 6:44 in the video by a Muslim with a doctorate)
(and finally one more proof)

PS Nonie Darwish is an apostate from the Middle East whom (is a primary source .. an eye witness, one of the most valuable pieces of evidence) is against Islam as peaceful.
In short Apostasy is death in Islam. It is justified through strength in numbers, the Haddith, and the Sira. For more reading: http://answering-islam.org...

On Salam Rushdie. My opponent tends to forget that this punishment was handed down to him by the Ayatollah at this point and time and still remains in place. Thus a contradiction is in place here: if a fatwa is an Islamic legal opinion, then how can the legal opinion in the name if Islam against Rushdie call for his death and yet still be peaceful? He cannot dispute this fact yet again. However he claims that the Qur'an does not claim earthly punishment for someone whom mocks Allah, this is true that punishment is very much mentioned in the Qur'an but not on earth. That is mentioned in the haddith and the Sharia! The Sharia is an important part of Islam (literally meaning law) and thus is a stain on Muslims. What they are to do is kill Salam Rushdie for 'blasphemy' or exercising his freedom to criticize Muhammad. What a lack of freedom of speech/expression. It's censorship. But it isn't just Rushdie, it is also in Norwegian territory for a cartoon. Also against the American television show South Park for joking about Muhammod.

Wife Beating:
Again in the Qur'an it states very clearly, if you fear high handedness, you may strike them. But lets look at the context you place it in. If that is true then there are several things to be hit:
1. Go through (Road) 2. Click (Mouse) 3. Drink (Bottle) 4. Land (Target) 5. Reach (market)
When someone "hits the road," it means he "departed" or "went through the road." It surely doesn't mean he got a hammer and hit the road. Does "hit the woman" mean "go through the woman"?
When someone says they will "hit the Mouse," they mean to say they will "click on the mouse." Does "hit the woman" mean "click on the woman"?
When someone says they'll "hit the bottle," what they really mean is, they'll "drink the bottle" or "drink alcohol heavily." Does "hit the woman" mean "drink the woman"?
When a darts player "hits the target," he didn't get the dart board and break it, he simply shot the dart and it "landed on the target." Does "hit the woman" mean "land on the woman"?
When an author's book "hits the market," it means the book "reaches the market." Does "hit the woman" mean "reach the woman"?
As you can clearly see, each of those sentences require a different interpretation of the word "hit", which is applied accordingly to the object used in combination with it. With all these supposedly "different meanings" of the word "hit" in mind, what is your understanding of the sentence "I will hit my woman?"
It still has no other meaning than "I will beat my woman."' The difference between, for example, "hit the road" and "hit the woman", is the object to be hit, and not the meaning of "hit" itself.[4]
Again Islam means submission: I have already addressed this earlier in the debate. As it either must be one or both. Either through submission there shall be peace (which implies violence before peace and thus making Islam NOT peaceful) or submission to God. Otherwise again there would not be two words.[5]
Pro claims that slavery is not allowed in Islam when the the Islamic Center of Studies states: Muhammad captured slaves, sold slaves, bought slaves as gifts of pleasure, received slaves as gifts, and used slaves for work.The Sira is exquisitely clear on the issue of slavery.(Muhammad and the Unbelievers: a Political Life) [6] [7]
I think that that video very clearly shows slavery in Sudan and shows in fact that in the name of Islam it is not peaceful, no minority has ever flourished in an Islamic State (such as IRAN whom head of state is the Ayatollah is NOT secular) [8]
But if you still think Islam is peaceful, watch this:

Discriminative to women, Muhammad was a warlord whom conquered in over 65 campaigns[9] and married a 9 year old girl whom would have been impossible to mature into womanhood as she didn't hit puberty at that time. Lying to people, and no country under the flag of Islam has ever had a better quality of life rating from a third party organization. The conclusion is simple: Islam is not a religion of peace. Thank you for your time and please vote con!
Sources:
[1] http://www.pewglobal.org...
[2] http://answering-islam.org...
[3] http://www.pewglobal.org...
[4] http://wikiislam.net...(Quran_4-34)#Apologetic_Claim
[5] http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...
[6] Ibid
[7] (video to the right)
[8] http://www.thereligionofpeace.com...
[9] Ibid
IslamAnswersAll

Pro

Once again, I thank Con for providing good points to think about.
1.Con accuses Muslims of Double Standards. That's Ok. Let me requote what I said "..Then Muslims are operating double standards, which would be incompatible with the teachings of Islam." Therefore, Muslims who claim to follow Islam may operate double Standards, But Islam isn't. Hence, I would like to remind my opponent, yet another time, this debate isn't about Muslims, its about Islam. In fact, when Muslims don't follow what Islam says, they aren't acting as Muslims. He then plays number games. It is my duty to inform him & the Audience that Islam isn't about Majority, It is about the enforcement of the laws, at all times. Therefore Opinions of Some or many Muslims about ISLAM may not be what Islam actually is. There is no Evidence from the Quran, or from the Hadith, which indicates to Kill people just for walking out of Islam. For more people who think as us twohttp://apostasyandislam.blogspot.in...

2.He accuses me of lying, and says that lying is Islamic, to promote the religion. What we can see here is a linguistic game, the Hadith he Quoted talks of three things.
" the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for war is deception; or a lie to settle trouble between people". Firstly, A Husband can lie to her wife, for the betterment of the relationship. Its like the Husband saying, "The food made is tasty", when he actually doesn't like it. I want to ask my Opponent, to how many times; we would have said "Yes" to similar Questions in real cases. Secondly, lying to an enemy in a battle, If in a battle, the enemy asks you, where are your Soldiers? What would you say? Obviously you won't tell the truth. Finally, lying to settle issues between people. How many times would we have said something, to make up between friends? Where does these three things imply to lie for promoting the religion?

3.He then brings Nonie Darwish into the picture, and produces her as a proof for his statement. I have heard her now, and she doesn't Quote from the Quran or from the Hadith to back up her Claim. What X Y Z speak doesn't matter me? What matters us is the Quran and the Authentic Traditions of the Prophet. In one of the videos, she shows a Fatwa, from Egypt, Authorized by the Government. This again is hot air for me, To say in her words, we want an authorization from the Quran and/or from the Sunnah. Every single Fatwa doesn't imply to be Islamic, unless it has the evidences from the Quran and/or the Sunnah. The Hadith, doesn't justify killing for Just walking out of Islam, but rather for hypocrisy, treason, etc depending on the Context.

4.On Salman Rushdie, my opponent tries to prove it was Islamic by claiming it as a fatwa. As I explained before, a Fatwa requires PROOF From the Quran and/or the Sunnah of the Prophet. Fatwa literally means opinion, and stands based on the evidences with which it was formulated. I can just knock out Khomeini, with this Fatwa that he is not a Muslim. http://www.schiiten.com...
But, I wont do it, rather I ask his evidences. This is because, I hear what is said, rather than who is saying it! Furthermore, I have proved from my opponent's sources, that his Opinion isn't related to Islam, and was nothing but just a Political gimmick!

5.Iran is not an Islamic State: Khomeini detailed his political model for Iran culminating in his ‘Rule of the Jurist' thesis. he was absolutely unequivocal when considering the state's source of legislation; in page twenty nine of his ‘Rule of The Jurist' thesis he states: "In Islam the legislative power and competence to establish laws belongs exclusively to God almighty. The Sacred Legislator of Islam is the sole legislative power. No one has the right to legislate and no law may be executed except the law of the Divine Legislator....the body of Islamic laws that exist in the Quran and Sunnah has been accepted by them and recognized by them as worthy of obedience."
Yet when Khomeini assumed power as the ‘Supreme Leader' he designed an unprecedented elaborate governmental structure including an electable parliamentary Majlis that had the power to legislate; the caveat was added that all laws passed would be scrutinized by the ‘Guardian Council', a group of twelve men, to ensure laws passed ‘conform' with the Shariah.It is ironical that he never even implemented his own theory when he came to power.

6.Cartoon and other issues:, where Muslims are involved in doing something which is not Islamic. We can't do bad to correct evil. If people commit suicide, or protest with violence, killing innocent People, these actions aren't Islamic because Islam doesn't allow to commit Suicide nor does it allow to kill innocent people. Therefore, it is again, Muslims who are in the Question, and not ISLAM.

7.On Wife beating, my Opponent gives a list of meanings for hit, and tries to find the Suitable meaning. He has to note that the Quran is not in English, & therefore his interpretation is not valid. My Proof is from Arabic, the word "darabtum" which is also a derivative of the word "daraba" is used in 4:101 to mean "go"(4:101) "AND WHEN you go forth(darabtum) [to war]" and in (4:94) "O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) in the cause of Allah". Therefore, it is the Arabic to be dealt with, and not the Translation! Therefore, it well means to "Go away" as in terms to "Separate" or "part away"

8.On Islam, being Peaceful, my opponent remarked that there has to be violence before peace. Since, Islam allows to fight for self defense, it cant be classified as an act of violence. Moreover, we are told to stop, when they stop fighting. Furthermore, when they seek protection, Allah commands us not only to protect them, but also arrange them a place of Safety.9:5

9.On Slavery, Islam came at a time when slavery was deeply entrenched in the society, so Islam worked towards the gradual elimination of slavery.
The Prophet said:"A person who frees a Muslim slave, Allah will deliver every one of his limbs from the fire of Hell in return for each of the limbs of the slave (Bukhari)
Moreover, Islam orders making an agreement to facilitate a slave in buying back his freedom if he requests such an agreement, and it encourages helping him in that with shares or wealth.
And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation) give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you.24:33
Islam also elevated the status of slaves and promoted universal human equality; the Prophet said:
"Yield obedience to my successors, even if he is a black Ethiopian slave" Tabreezee
"No one should say, "my slave" as all of you are slaves of Allah."Bukhari
They are not Gifts of pleasure. Islam strictly forces us to seek pleasure ONLY after marriage.
The Prophet said: "If any of you have a slave girl, whom he gives good education and excellent training, and then he emancipates her and marries her, he shall have a two-fold reward."Bukhari

10.Finally, my opponent gives another set of claims. He claims that the prophet married Aisha, before she attained puberty. For my proof against it, I have given the example of the Byzantine Empire, in my previous paper & the list of young mothers. Lastly, about Stoning, Islamic Stoning is deterrence, and is virtually impossible to be carried out, except in cases of Open Adultery. It requires 4 eye witnesses, who read prayer 5 times a day, and are perfect Muslims, to see the actual event happening, which is virtually impossible

To conclude, the present Western Media portrays the black sheep of the Community as if though they are Extemporary Muslims, and thus produce an Image, which they claim to be Islam. Please be Open, and Judge for yourselves. Thank you for the time, & All the Best
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TheHitchslap 3 years ago
TheHitchslap
STFU. This is why most of us with a brain are atheists.
Your god is good right? All perfect? What the hell is he doing sending someone like me or Roy to "hell" if he does exist? Why is it that every single Muslim state has higher rates of violence than other countries? It's because of your bvllshit beliefs. Besides, if God gave you, me and Roy the ability to rationalize, why can't we dismiss him?

Either way, regardless of if you believe it or not, science is awesome. Even if you don't believe in it doesn't mean it's untrue. Evolution has been proven years ago, and quantum physics disprove God.

Quit your whining.
Posted by muryumhussain 3 years ago
muryumhussain
Sorry to say this but seen as you don"t believe or like Islam you're going to say wrong about it. Face it, it"s the truth, you don"t like Islam clearly. You pick a religion and speak against it RIGHT?? Islam is known as one of the most peaceful and not racist religion, if you think about it Christianity is one racist religion... people that are black are to go to a different church and people that are white are to go to a different church same with Indians they too are not nice either they separate the rich from the poor, the less fortunate go to a different temple and the most fortune go to a different place of worship... ISLAM (the religion you are picking on) welcomes all races black and white, Indian Muslims, Somalis, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi"s and many more those that have converted to Islam from a different religion, because of PEACE they do not go around differentiating each other they go around welcoming each others. What you should know is the bible has been changed many times to what people want it to be it isn"t the exact copy as it should be when it was given to the Christian people they thought it was complete crap and changed it to what they wanted it to say and now a days they go with that it said to cover yourself fully what is happening people are wearing bikinis and crop tops with shorts that what they call covering up, it said there should be peace in this would what"s happening Americans and all others are bombing countries like Pakistan, Iraq, Iran and MAINLY AFGHANISTAN BECAUSE ALL OF YOU ARE HEARTLESS YOU DONT HAVE A BLOODY HEART TO RECOGNISE THE TRUE RELIGION ISLAM YOU CANT FACE THAT ALL OTHER RELIGION ATRENT BETTER THAN ISLAM. BY ME SAYING THIS IT WON"T CHANGE WHETHER ISLAM IS THE BEST IN OTHERS EYES BUT HOPEFULLY IT SHOW YOU THE SHAME THAT YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM AND YOU ARE GOING TO MISS A LOT IN PARADISE. SORRY BUT ITS LIFE FACE IT. SORRY IF IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE TO YOU BUT THIS WAS WRITTEN BY THE HEART WHICH CLEARLY NONE OF YOU HAVE A HEART!!!
Posted by Hay 3 years ago
Hay
Islam is the religion of peace. Whatyou are talking about is the Taliban that do strict Sharia law. And every religion has some bad people like criminals and terrorists
Posted by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
I gave sources in the debate to Pro and arguments to Con. If the Koran is unambiguous in it's advocacy of peace, why do such a high percentage of practicing Muslims embrace violence? I suspect that the answer is that just as practicing Christians can find pretty much whatever they want in the Bible, practicing Muslims can find whatever they want in the Koran. Con didn't have sources to show the origins of violent Islam as it is practiced. Also, Con's videos where not referenced as sources so much as they were referenced as arguments. Nonetheless, Pro effectively conceded that Islam as practiced is violent, and I think that practice must be given precedence over theory.
Posted by TheHitchslap 4 years ago
TheHitchslap
Dropped? I addressed every point!
I already said Muhammad supported slavery regardless of what the Qur'an said.
I already showed that Muhammad was a warlord, and how minorities have never flourished under an Islamic state.
In fact he wasn't even able to provide me with an answer to my question: What Islamic state has a higher rating in quality of life than that of North America by a third party organization.

I don't mind anyone feeling I've lost to vote for pro, but I mean your comments indicate to me you didn't even read the debates did you?
Posted by baggins 4 years ago
baggins
RFD:
The arguments made by Pro were...

1. Apostasy issue
2. Salman Rushdie issue
3. 'Punishment' for women

Both Pro and Con debated these issue in each round. Con continued to add more issues and this carried on till last round. I would consider each of these to be more or less a stalemate.

On other hand, Pro presented several excellent arguments explaining why Islam is a religion of peace, such as absence of racism, prohibition on killing civilians and religious elders. These arguments were dropped by Con and hence can be considered as conceded. Thus this debate goes to Pro on arguments.
Posted by IslamAnswersAll 4 years ago
IslamAnswersAll
Thank you for the debate Hitch,
No Problems with the video, just the fact that I used my best to touch all the points within 8000 Characters. I have enjoyed the debate as well, and am eager for more such debates in the future. If you have any Questions, please post/comment here, and we will certainly entertain and enjoin it
Posted by TheHitchslap 4 years ago
TheHitchslap
I was very impressed by my opponent in defending Islam, obviously I'm sure we both felt we've won this debate. I have most certainly enjoyed this debate and have learned much more about Islam. If you have any questions to either one of us please post them here and we will answer them.
Last point: I have been accused in the past of using videos to exceed character limits. This was not my intention; a picture is worth a thousand words, and for that matter will drive the point home more in my arguments. I'm sure my opponent feels the same way and nothing in the rules regulates this.
Posted by TheHitchslap 4 years ago
TheHitchslap
Sorry, typo ..
Posted by ScottyDouglas 4 years ago
ScottyDouglas
All religion? In your first round you say just religion.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
TheHitchslapIslamAnswersAllTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: The question here is whether a religion is defined but what it's followers actually believe, or rather what they ought to believe to be in accord with scripture. Pro makes a good case that a reasonable interpretation of scripture is to require peace. Con cites polls that violent interpretation predominates, and obviously events bear that out. All scripture has ambiguity, and clearly Muslims have different interpretations. We must therefore define the religion by what people believe it is.
Vote Placed by baggins 4 years ago
baggins
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Reasons for voting decision: Analysis in comments.
Vote Placed by Khana 4 years ago
Khana
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Reasons for voting decision: A great debate :D Congrats both. Both were respectful, reasonably well spoken, and used sources. However, I felt Con wins because of 2 things: 1. I think Con is right to include how Islam is used. Religion is more than just the text of the primary book. And 2. There is a lot of violence in the Quran, anyway. Someone who's nice 90 of the time and a murderer 10 of the time is not best described as a man of peace. There's good and bad both, and enough bad to say Con wins :)