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Islam is not a religion of peace, and does not have an appropriate system of justice

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/11/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 793 times Debate No: 36571
Debate Rounds (4)
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Definition of peace
The normal, nonwarring condition of a nation, group of nations, or the world.
( often initial capital letter ) an agreement or treaty between warring or antagonistic nations, groups,etc., to end hostilities and abstain from further fighting or antagonism: the Peace of Ryswick.
a state of mutual harmony between people or groups, especially in personal relations: Try to live inpeace with your neighbors.
the normal freedom from civil commotion and violence of a community; public order and security: Hewas arrested for being drunk and disturbing the peace.
cessation of or freedom from any strife or dissension.

I will be arguing that islam is not a religion of peace, and my opponent will be arguing that islam is a religion of peace. I will use Quran verses, verses from the hadith, and and actions of muslims in the real world as argument, and I encourage my oponent to do the same. I will also touch on the subject of justice in Islam, and my oponent will argue that Islam is just, while I will argue that it is unjust.

First round is acceptance. Good luck.


That means peace in Arabic, and is also a part of the word 'Islam'.

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1


As seen in the definition above, peace is not only a state of now-war between communities, but is also a state of harmony between communities.

I will be using the word harmony a lot in my commentary of the Quran verses, because according to the above definition, harmony is required for peace to exist.

I am aware that there there some verses in the quran which can be considered "peaceful" and no doubt my opponent will show some of them, however there are also verses which would be considered against the law in western civilization. In my opinion, a religion which jumps back and forth between peace and war is unstable, with such fluctuation harmony could not be established because you will radical muslims committing acts of terrorism, and you will have moderate muslims who let the radical muslims do what they want, and the moderate muslims still find ways of disrupting the peace without committing acts of violence.

(Watch the 2 linked videos now)

For example, In Europe, you very often see radical muslims screaming and disrupting the people around them, and you see moderate muslims praying on the ground in the middle of the street, disrupting people. They are both creating un-harmonious situations for the people around them. This ruins the PEACE which these places maintain. As you can see in the video, the muslims praying in the middle of the street prevents people from walking or leaving or entering their houses. What kind of peace is that? It's a violation of rights, and it ruins the harmony of the area, causing non muslims to feel like they don't have the same rights as muslims. In short, it goes against the peace which islam so frequently preaches.

Now, I will offer some islamic scripture which goes against peace.

I will not be dealing with verses which have Allah threatening people with hellfire and the likes, because those are not real world punishments, or real world crimes against humanity, however I must ask you all to ponder in your hearts whether a God that burns people alive for eternity is peaceful, or if that is an appropriate system of justice. If not, then I have already won the debate.

These are Quran verses only.

16 "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."

2:178"O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female."

(If someone murders your slave, then you get to kill one of his. If it was a male that was killed, you kill one of the killer's male slaves. Same goes for females. Is this just?)

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. (I live in Canada, and this is a violation of section two of the Canadian charter of rights, so this is both a violation of peace and an inappropriate system of justice)

2:194 The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil).
(This Verse says that if evil is done to the muslims, the muslims must respond with the same evil back to the aggressors. If someone rapes your daughter, you must rape their daughter. If five atomic bombs are heading for saudi Arabia, they must send five atomic bombs back, etc. Canadians raped many native american women when settling in Canada. Does that mean Native americans should rape Canadians?)

5:51 - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
(Following this command does in fact create hostilities between muslims and the rest of mankind, thus violating the harmony of society, and it's peace)

3:118 "O ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their mouths, but that which their breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you the revelations if ye will understand."

(This verses says that all non muslims are out to "ruin you" so you must not associate with them. This violates the harmony of a society, thus volating it's peace")

"O ye who believe! if ye obey those who disbelieve, they will make you turn back on your heels, and ye turn back as losers."
(As you saw in one of the linked videos, Anjem Choudary recited this verse to the british woman and said that this verse is reason enough for muslims to NOT OBEY GOVERNMENT, OR ANY KIND OF AUTHORITY. This violates the laws of the land, and allows for muslims to violate the harmony of the land, thus violating the peace.)

2:282 ....."And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women..."
( and so in court, a testimony of a man is worth more than a woman's. This is NOT an appropriate form of justice)

4:15 "As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until deathtake them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation)."

(Sexually active woman are to be confined to their houses until death. Not only is this unjust, but the same does NOT apply to men. UNJUST AND SEXIST.)

"And those who accuse honourable women ( of adultery) but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony - They indeed are evil-doers -"

( so what this verse is saying is that in an islamic society you can go around accusing ONLY WOMEN of being lustful, and if you don't bring 4 witnesses with yourself then you will be lashed 80 times. This goes against western civilization and it's laws, it ruins the harmony of a community because it creates a paranoid society which is always thinking the worst about people. horrible justice, horrible harmony.)

I will stop there and continue my argument in the next round. I will leave the last round for refutals. The oponent is free to refute what I said, or leave that for the last round also. Good luck.


I would like to thank Pro for his arguments. I will first refute his arguments and then bring in my own arguments and prove that Islam is a religion of peace, harmony and justice.


(1.1)Islam is a religion that is based purely off the teachings of the Holy Qur'an and the Authentic sayings (Ahadith) and practices (Sunnah) of the founder of Islam, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw). Anything else beyond that is not considered a part of Islam and thus will be ignored, such as actions of so called Muslims and corrupted political leaders.

(1.2)When Islam first came about through the Prophet Muhammad (saw), his followers as well as his family were severely persecuted and also killed in their own home town, Mecca by the Meccans and their leaders. The persecution had gotten so severe that the Muslims had to eventually move out to another city later known as Medina north of the city of Mecca. As the Muslims moved out, the Meccans had planned to end the religion of Islam once and for all instead of letting them practice their own religion, so they had planned to attack every Muslim living in Medina to end the religion once and for all.

Throughout the years, Mecca had launched several attacks towards the Muslims and soon, other nearby tribes had joined forces with the Meccans to eliminate this new religion known as Islam that they saw as a threat, such were the Jews of Khaibar and other Christian tribes.

Only during these times did God command the Holy Prophet (saw) to defend their people and engage in defensive warfare, and when it was time for war, God ordered the Muslims to stand their ground and not turn their backs, and obviously these commands can be found within the Qur'an that Pro has taken out of context and addressed here. Every single verse has a history and reasoning for its revelation, as well as an answer. I will refute his allegations.

(2)Explanation of Verses

[2:216]-In this verse, God is simply commanding the Muslims that they must defend themselves when they are being attacked, although the Muslims disliked fighting, and this is true. Muslims did not like to fight, but in this scenario, they had to, otherwise the armies that largely outnumbered them would slaughter everyone living in the city.

[2:178]-The problem of Pro here is ignorance, for this verse has a history and doesn't mean what Pro is thinking. God is addressing a custom of the Arabs before Islam, that they used to kill the slave of a master if he killed someone else's slave, for example. The construction of the verse is meant to abolish such a custom, not to condone it. I advise Pro to read this commentary on this verse to come to a solid understanding.[1]

[2:193]-I do not see what is wrong with this verse. God is simply commanding the Muslims to keep fighting in their battles until the persecution has been eliminated, and when the enemy desist in their fighting, the Muslims should also stop fighting. Which nation does NOT fight like this? Pro is again remaining in his ignorance and taking verses out of context without understanding their proper meaning.

[2:194]-Pro is making up interpretations of a verse that has nothing to do with his understanding of it. I humbly ask Pro to read the full context, verses 190-94 to see that the verse is talking about prohibition of fighting during sacred months, the Muslims were living alongside the enemy at this time. If an enemy breaches the peace, the Muslims have the right to defend themselves and fight the enemy the same way they launched their attack. It has nothing to do with if your wife gets raped, you get to aswell etc. Also, within the same context of the verse, God states to never commit transgression. This is justice.

[5:51]-This verse is not talking about all Jews/Christians, Muslims can make friends with anyone. The verse is only talking about those Jews/Christians that are at a state of war with the Muslims.

[3:118]-See 5:51

[3:149]-It is like saying America should obey Hitler and his orders to exterminate Jews...that is unrealistic. Pro will however use whatever verse he can find and promote his ideology that Islam goes against peace and harmony.

[2:282]-Due to space, I will post this link. [2]

[4:15]-It is not talking about sexually active women, it is talking about severe disorderly conduct. It also talks about men in the next verse. Please see the link to understand the verse. [3]

[24:4]-I advise Pro read the entire chapter 24 of the Qur'an before he says something else ignorant. The punishment of lashes does exist, it exists for both men and women equally. In this verse however, God is talking about those that accuse WOMEN of this act which they haven't done, these people who falsely accuse women deliberately will get the punishment. For a modern Islamic understanding, see the video.

The punishment of lashes is for adultery taken place in public, which is not only immoral, but behavior to the ranks of severe misconduct that will degrade society. Action must take place, again, watch the video ON YouTube.


Now that I have answered Pro's so called allegations and corrected his misinterpretations, I will now bring in arguments to show that Islam is peaceful and just.

(3)Islam promotes peace, justice, and equality.

(3.1)Like every religion, Islam is here to create a peaceful society for mankind to live in. The purpose of Islam is to create a paradise on Earth, where everyone is living propserous lives and immorality and violence and corruption is nonexistant. As I stated in R1, Islam itself means peace and promotes it, and I will prove it in this debate.

[2:256] "Let there be no compulsion in religion..."
This one verse clearly states that there should be NO force in regards to someone's religion, so you cannot force someone to accept/leave a religion, or force someone to obey an aspect of a religion.

[16:82] "But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message."
This verse is similar to the previous verse. When preaching, you are only responsible to deliver the message, if they turn away, you leave them alone, not kill them.

[2:62] "Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
This verse clearly states that Jews, Christians, and Sabians (other religions) that believe in God, the Last Day, and do good deeds, will be rewarded. Powerful verse!

[22:40] "…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty."
This verse clearly promotes peace, if God did not command the Muslims to defend their city (where people with multiple faiths lived in), destruction would have been engaged to all these places of worship mentioned, people of multiple faiths would be affected, and God commanded the Muslims to defend their people, to fight for peace that the enemy was not granting them. God wants to preserve the harmony in society, not destroy it.

Qur'an also promotes justice and equality for both men and women. In order to save space, read the verses here. [4]


The leader of my Islamic community has visited the US Congress and UK Parliament to deliver the message of peace and justice throughout the world in the name of Islam.

Go to YouTube and paste:

US: /watch?v=_Iu9VKncw5I
UK: /watch?v=nVn2dwIoI4k

Debate Round No. 2


Thanks for the ideas. I will refute first, give arguments after.

(1.1-1.2)IslamAhmadiyya says that Muhammad himself was so heavily persecuted that it shows how peaceful his group is and how savage the rest of the world is.

Jesus was also persecuted, so heavily in fact that he was crucified. Is that a sign that Christianity itself is peaceful? Well, no, I mean during the dark ages christians would torture people like IslamAhmadiyya by peeling off his skin, setting him on fire, crushing his hands and legs and poking fire into his body. Just for this reason, I would never trust christianity ever again.

Now, Muhammad may have been persecuted and he may not have done anything in retaliation (however various hadith have Muhammad burning people alive and such) you see today muslims responsible for the various human atrocities such as the kidnapping of hindus in India, the murder and torture of bahai's in Iran, the murder and torture of christians in Egypt, and , etc. This is exactly like the dark ages. Islam is in need of reform, or islam will have a place under my shoes. Judaism had a reform (before Hitler persecuted them, they were already reformed) christianity had a reform (during the 20th century) and if ISLAM had a reform as well, it would be good enough for western civilization, but Islam and my opponent are stuck reading verses written in the 7th century and believing they are applicable to modern society. WRONG!

(2.0) A reoccurring argument of Islamahmadiyya is that the verses have a historical significance, and should be read and considered in the context of 7th century Asia. I'm sorry, WHAT? You want medieval verses like the ones below to dictate our lives?

    • Sura 5:33 (anyone who is at war with "Allah and his messengers" should be captured, have their feet and hands chopped off, or they should be CRUCIFIED)

    • Sura 5:38 (thieves, both male and female should have their hands chopped off) <I've stolen something before. Should I have my hands chopped off?

    • Sura 5:45 ("...The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation...")

If the quran is a book revealed to muslims that is mostly in the historical context, why is it considered a perfect, errorless word of God? If it's revealed to in the context of the 7th century, it should have stayed in the 7th century. It's words and laws, if applied to today's world do not create peace and are not adequate forms of justice.

(2:178) If the quran is revealed in a way which only the people of the 7th century would understand, then it is no longer holy and helpful to us in today's world. What kind of ABSOLUTELY HOLY BOOK would have medieval ramblings.

(2:193) It says to fight until religion is for Allah, and the meccans , as you called them, were not of Allah, so it meant fight until ALL religion is for Allah. Again, why is this fairy tale considered holy writing if it is just a story about a bunch of cave men fighting wars in the 7th century. You keep saying it's all just historical accounts. Well, if that's what it is then there's nothing holy about it, just like the old testament it's just a bunch of ramblings and fairytales. Besides, if muslims ARE supposed to take this literally, then it is a violation of section 2 of the Canadian charter of rights.

(2:194) I agree with what you said there.

(5:51) No it doesn't say anything about only jews and christians, I read it in context and others can read it in the link. Besides, America, Canada, Europe are all invading the middle east currently, so aren't you basically at war with us? America has many christians, Israel has many jews, and they are hostile and sometimes at war with christians, so your argument has backfired. You should not be taking Christians or jews as friends, thus you are ruining the harmony, thus ruining the peace.

(3:149) What you said there didn't make sense so my argument still stands. Muslims are not allowed to obey those who "disblieve" and Anjem Choudary uses that verse to commit havoc across Britain. That is not peaceful.

I watched part of the video on youtube. I will not spend an hour watching that whole thing.

(2:62) This is a contradiction, it says everywhere else in the Quran that nonmuslims will face doom, hellfire, and such.

For the rest of your "peaceful" verses, I may agree, however they do not cancel out the evil verses.

Sura 5:33
Sura 5:38
Sura 5:45

Pure evil.^

Also, under islammic law non muslims must pay a tax called Jizyah. how's that for Peace and justice?

Thanks and good luck.


Let's jump right in.


(1.1-1.2)I would like to first clarify Pro's statement that he made regarding the condition of Muhammad (saw) and his followers being persecuted. First, I never said that the rest of the world were savages, but it is a historical fact that Pre-Islamic Arabia was a dark spot on Earth.[1] Infanticide, or burying new-born girls was practiced by the Arabs and was a popular custom.

Arabia was a very immoral spot on Earth before the advent of Islam. When Islam came about in Arabia, the entire peninsula and nearby nations were completely rejuvenated with a new breath of life, all through the Holy Prophet (saw). For 3 whole centuries after the demise of the Holy Prophet (saw), Islam was living its Golden Age where many world advancements took place ranging from the various sciences to mathematics, from art to geography, architecture to philosophy, and much more.[2]

The things that Pro has listed will be ignored, as they have nothing to do with Islam or Islamic rulings, I am not wasting my time replying to allegations raised about un-Islamic practices. Just to add in there, Muhammad (saw) burned nobody alive, I'm sure if you do some research, you'll find scholars rejecting such narrations. Lastly, I would like to explain to Pro that traditions of a culture and religion are two separate things. If you see a Muslim stoning a woman to death in Afghanistan for example, but never see it in the States, then there's something obviously wrong. Stoning for example was a custom way before Islam, it still exists today sadly, yet has nothing to do with Islam. The traditionalists are merely self-proclaimed Muslims, but you cannot point fingers at Islam for their backward cultural practices.

(1.3)Flexibility of the Qur'an

The Qur'an is a unique scripture and has an antique style of its written laws which can be taken both literally and metaphorically depending on the context and its usage, this gives the Qur'an more flexibility when dealing with laws pertaining to certain time periods. The reason people like Pro are saying that the Qur'an is outdated is because they have not learned that the Qur'anic verses can have multiple interpretations. Many of the verses are written in metaphor, and must be taken metaphorically. Some can be taken in both, and some are literal. The Qur'an is a book that is meant for all time periods, not only for the period it was revealed in.

This brings me to the next point.

(2)Answers to verses

Now Pro has given me 3 verses and they all have very simple explanations, but due to space I will just send a link to the commentary regarding the verse.

[5:33]-Please don't post verses out of context, read the entire context. Commentary here.[3]

[5:38]-This verse is meant to be taken metaphorically today.[4]

[5:45]-Thanks, this verse proves Justice in Islam. Not only is this verse in the Qur'an, but also in the chapter Exodus of the Bible. God permits just retaliation if you have been wronged, but forgiveness is also an addition and is widely used.

As Pro pointed out towards the end of his argument, he states these verses are pure evil. No, they are not evil, they can be considered harsh, as God is definitely not afraid to command the readers to do what is right. When immoral behavior is rampant in society, there needs to be a firm yet flexibile law to maintain order. Only the Qur'an has accomplished such a thing, some however abuse the verses, and that is why we are here to correct misunderstandings.

I ask Pro to see (1.3) for his answer when he talks about the Qur'an being medieval.

[2.178]-Pro makes a good point, but the answer is simple. This is why we have teachers. If you open a math book and try to understand Algebra, you will hardly get the concept by yourself alone, you always need a teacher.

[2:193]-The Arabic in the Qur'an is not only meant for the 7th Century, but all centuries. It may call for defensive battle in the past, but today the very same words tell us to defend Islam by words, through debates, just like I am doing right now with you.

[5:51]-It doesn't matter, you can be friends with anyone in Islam as long as they are not at 'war' with you, or engaged in war with you. The Jews, Christians, and the Pagans were all against Islam at a certain point in time, this verse dealt with this issue. Your next point is irrelevent and is based off of ignorance. West vs. Middle East does not equal Christianity vs. Islam.

[3:149]-Read the verse, see this part? "...they will make you turn back on your heels..." It is clearly talking about the Muslims when they were in battle with the Jews. Commentary.[5] I don't care how Anjem interprets this verse, he's wrong.

[2:62]-There is no contradiction, if you believe and do good works, you won't be punished. Even Muslims can be punished if they do wrong deeds.

See the video.

(4)Promotion of peace in Islam

(4.1)Truly, the greatest exemplar of peace in Islam, and even in all of history, was the Prophet Muhammad (saw). When Mecca was handed to Muhammad (saw), he ruled justly and with tranquility. He ruled a city and it became a utopia of the Earth. Even though he possessed all the wealth during this time, he never kept it for himself, he distributed all his wealth to the poor, sick, and needy. He was a ruler that never wore fancy clothes, he kept a simple life like every other person. This was a time where equality and brotherhood was widespread, love and peace reigned supreme everywhere.

(4.2)Muhammad (saw) had sent a letter to the Christians that was meant to last til the end of the world! Read it here.[6]

(4.3)Muhammad (saw) from the very beginning wanted peace with the Meccans, he had written a treaty. Read it here.[7]

So far, as you can see, this is the basis of Islam, promoting peace and harmony between different tribes, nations, and religions! This is all history.

(4.4)There are hundreds of quotes from famous people around the world that have praised the actions of Muhammad (saw). He is the example Muslim for all peoples of all time periods, Islam is based off of the Qur'an as well as his actions. Read a number of quotes from these famous people about him.[8]

I would like to conclude that Islam IS a religion of peace, harmony, and equality, and it DOES have an appropriate system of justice.

Even Thomas Jefferson used the Qur'an when writing the Constitution of the United States.[9]


Since I have explained the flexibility of the Qur'an, it is applicable to all time periods and for all peoples. When we see immorality rampant by a few Muslims, they do not represent Islam, they represent themselves and their own actions. Remember my previous analogy? If a driver crashes into a tree, the car is not at fault, the driver is.

A religion as a guiding principle is no different.

Another point I would like to add, Islam, being a religion like other faiths, has compressed all the teachings of the earlier scriptures, and has simplified them and made it easier for us to follow and obey.

To end my argument for today, I would like Pro to see this flash slideshow about some popular verses in the Qur'an that may seem to be against peace and promote violence. It is easy to understand even for kids. See it here.[10]



Debate Round No. 3


I like how con has responded, and his info and his links have slightly changed my views on islam. I'm truly sorry that your religion has been rampant with disgusting radical individuals who have made islam look more evil than it is, but I stand by my belief that if the quran is to be taken literally, it is not meant for today's world.

If the quran is to be taken literally, i would have my hands cut off because I have stolen before.
If the quran is to be taken literally, I would have been lashed 80-100 times because I have commited adultury.

So, am I sorry that Islam has many people who profess faith in it but commit acts of evil? yes.
Am I sorry that the vatican used to kidnap women for being ugly and torture them to death? yes I am.
....But does that mean the religion is worth believing in? No. Christianity has failed it's test, as seen above, and islam has failed it's test as well be producing piles of horse **** like the filth in Europe and Iran.

We are no longer in the golden age of islam. Islam needs a reform to be suitable to mankind. Either another prophet needs to swoop down and say he's the next messiah, or the islamic authority need to reform islam.

Thanks for your time IslamAhmadiyya, and I'd like to continue this over messages.



The topic of this debate was, "Islam is not a religion of peace, and does not have an appropriate system of justice."

Pro has brought forth verses from the Holy Qur'an out of context to prove his stance, I have refuted all of his allegations as well as provided more verses from the Qur'an as well as historical evidences to prove that Islam stands for peace, harmony, and has an appropriate system of justice, which in result, has slightly changed the views of Pro about Islam, which now means that I have accomplished my goal.

However, he still brought forth a few more allegations that I will refute in my final round.

(1)Punishment for stealing

Now if Pro had read my previous response to his allegation, he would have already known that 'Chopping of hands' is an Arabic analogy to simply mean 'Cut off all ways to repeat the same mistake'. Arabic is a language, just like English, that is filled with metaphors, analogies, and idioms. If we take a look at a well known English idiom, 'Break a leg', it might sound like a ruthless command, but in actuality, it means 'Good luck'. There is no blame on a person who is new at the English language and hears someone say 'Break a leg', he/she will get confused, even afraid.

We need to remember here that the Qur'an is preserved in Arabic, and the proper meanings and understandings can only be purely interpreted in Arabic. The Qur'an is not in English, Spanish, Chinese, French, or any other language we commonly speak today. As a matter of fact, the style of Arabic that is within the Qur'an is a bit different than the Arabic speaking people today.

So we have to realize that when we come to translations of the Qur'an, they do not represent the true and actual interpretation or understanding. This is why the Qur'an encourages people to ask questions and learn from teachers, otherwise we'd be making quite a hefty amount of mistakes, like Pro.

Now about the punishment for stealing, in today's society, we have police, we have security, we have law inforcement, we have advanced and modern technology and equipment to find thieves who steal and rob others, we also have jails and rehab centers.

These things did not exist in the past, or in the same manner. Back then, a few pieces of fruit could mean life and death for a poor family. But today times are different, if anyone steals, they get sent to prison or the sort, this fulfills the command of the Qur'an, 'Prevent them from making the same mistake with their hands', or 'Chop off their hands', it is meant to be taken metaphorically.

Also, note that the Qur'an also talks about forgiveness, so the punishment can be completely avoided if the thief repents. And all in all, this verse is talking about a severe case of robbery, not stealing a piece of candy from a store, for example. Hope this clears up a few misconceptions.

(2)Punishment for Adultery

Now Pro says that he would be lashed for comitting adultery, that is wrong. The punishment of lashes does exist, as the command is clearly layed out in the Qur'an, and there is wisdom behind it.

The punishment is only if you have committed adultery in public, at least in front of 4 witnesses, and if 4 people have witnessed this act, and those who committed adultery did not repent, the punishment may or may not take place as it depends on the state. The punishment is a harsh one, because it is to put shame into those who have done such an act, (adultery is a very severe breach of misconduct within society in Islam), in public view. If it was done in private, no punishment is to take place. I have given Pro a video to watch, the talk about Adultery starts somewhere in the middle of the video, you can see in the description.

However, even though this command is in the Qur'an, it hardly ever took place, because those who were accused of adultery repented, as they already felt the shame for their act. However, those who committed adultery in public and had absolutely no shame, in front of children, in front of public view, and did not even repent, they are liable for such a punishment, for their shameful act, or shameless in their eyes. If no punishment would have taken place, these people would have done it again in public, this is degrading to society, do it behind closed doors, not in the public. If they repent, no punishment is to be taken place.


I hope Pro learned something, because it still seems like he doesn't get the picture. Islam has not failed its test, and Islam has not produced piles of horse dung, these piles of horse dung have been produced by the corruption of mankind, Islam is here to stop this, not create any more. If Islam hadn't of existed, imagine the society of pre-Islamic Arabia then, it would have been widespread. It is true that these people also exist within Islam, but you cannot point fingers at the religion that is trying to eliminate these people and these evil practices.

(3)The Promised Messiah

Pro brings up an interesting point towards the end. He states that Islam is no longer in its golden age, Islam needs to have a reform, a prophet claiming to be a messiah must come down, Islamic authority must do something about Islam.

Seems like all of his concerns have been answered.

I would like to tell him that yes, a new prophet has come who has claimed to be the Promised Messiah of the latter days. This prophet has claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus (as), as well as the Imam Mahdi as known in Islam. This prophet has claimed to be subordinate to the Master Prophet Muhammad (saw), so that means that whatever reformation this man is bringing, it is the same reformation of the final law, the law of the Qur'an.

His name if Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian, India.

In 1889, he founded the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, which I am a part of, and this community is based off the founding principles of the teachings of Islam.

Membership exceeds tens of millions across 200+ countries worldwide, and every member is united under one leadership, the leadership of Khilafat, or Spiritual Successorship. The leader is known as the Khalifa.

The Promised Messiah (as) was sent to this world by God to eliminate all the falsehood and corruption within this world, as well as within Islam, and has come to rejuvenate the teachings of the beloved Prophet, Muhammad (saw), and to correct the misunderstandings of the Qur'an.

The AMC movement is a reformation of Islam, it is not a new religion, but the same religion that was completed 1,400 years ago through Prophet Muhammad (saw).

After the demise of the Promised Messiah (as) in 1908, he was succeeded with the Khalifas that have taken his place to keep the community together and to lead the people, kind of like a Pope for Catholicism. A total of 5 Khalifas have come after him, and the current fifth Khalifa, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad (aba) resides in the UK.

The AMC movement is severely persecuted by other Muslim sects and is declared to be Kufr, or followers of disbelief. They consider Ahmadi Muslims to be non-Muslims and that they have nothing to do with Islam.

This is based off of ignorance and hatred, the motto of the AMC movement is 'Love for All - Hatred for None'.

The US and European Union have recognized the AMC organization to be a peaceful organization. The current Khalifa has recently visited Los Angeles, Chicago, Canada and Spain to deliver the message of peace and brotherhood.

What Pro has addressed, his exact wish has been fulfilled. Learn all about the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community here:

You can learn about the Promised Messiah (as) and all of the other true teachings of Islam.

Learn about the Khalifas and the differences between Ahmadi Muslims and other Muslims here.

This is the reformation of Islam that Pro has addressed, and the Golden Age of Islam has now begun again, starting from 100 years ago.

I would like to present that this is the truth of Islam and that God is with the true religion and has not left us in the dark.

The debate is now over.

Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by sorar3 2 years ago
ruthpumarejo, I still think islam is an evil religion, and I gave lots of evidence to back it up. Don't label me as an islam sympathizer now.
Posted by ruthpumarejo 2 years ago
OMGGG WHAT AN AMAZZZING DEBATE! Like wow, we have some scholars over here :) I'm so happy and proud although I am with Islam and that it is a religion of peace. I like how the other guy apologized for being ignorant about Islam, you don't see often. I have great respect foot both. well done.
Posted by sorar3 2 years ago
Yes he did do a great job. I like anyone else want a peaceful and happy world, and a sustainable world. I have seen muslims do horrible things, sometimes in the name of Allah and sometimes not. This debate was to bring light to those things, to denounce those things, and to make sure the public is aware. Personally I believe Islam is false, but my opponent gives good reasons to believe in it so he and any others who are like minded should definitely continue to practice their beliefs peacefully.
Posted by ESocialBookworm 2 years ago
Great job IslamAhmadiyya
Posted by arabrab 2 years ago
The Ahmadiyya are not excepted into the islamic community at large. They are not even allowed to go to Mecca.
Posted by IslamAhmadiyya 3 years ago
For a decent and brief introduction to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, see this page:

Good luck.
Posted by sorar3 3 years ago
you have 5 hours to post a response. I do hope you don't forget about this.
Posted by sorar3 3 years ago
To clarify, we will be focusing solely on peace, war, and justice in islam, and nothing else.
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