The Instigator
MiscoSRB
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
CuriousFear
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Islam is not a religion of peace

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
CuriousFear
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/29/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 485 times Debate No: 95063
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (1)

 

MiscoSRB

Pro

Islam is not a religion and i can explain it!
CuriousFear

Con

Go on m8
Let me hear your opinion
Debate Round No. 1
MiscoSRB

Pro

Islam is NOT a religion of peace!!!
Should religion of peace support killing people that are not muslim?!
Islamic violence is a religious problem.
The fulfillment of Islam depends on the subjugation of non-Muslims so that violence against non-Muslims become the essence of religion.

When Hamas states that, "Killing Jews is worship that draws us close to Allah" or the ISIS rapists tell Yazidi girls that rape "draws them closer to Allah", they really do mean it.
To its followers the validity of Islam is directly connected to its physical supremacy. As followers of the purported "final revelation" to mankind, Muslims not only have the obligation to conquer and subjugate the rest of the world, their religion is meaningful to the extent that they can carry on the work begun by Mohammed. The Jihadis who massacre non-Muslims are missionaries of their faith.

That is why Muslim terrorists shout, "Allahu Akbar", "Allah is greater." The old Mohammedan taunt aimed at Jews was then directed at Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and all the world's religions. By killing their non-Muslim victims, the Muslims proved that Allah was greater than their gods.
Forcing non-Muslims into a submissive position affirms the truth and power of Islam. By causing infidels to "lose face", the Muslim fulfills the Koranic verse which promises that Allah had sent Mohammed to make Islam supreme over all religions. By contrast when Islam "loses face", an act of blasphemy has been committed, which can only be righted religiously by killing the non-Muslims, thereby forcing them to lose face and once again affirming the physical superiority of Islam.

This creates the cycle of violence, which is not the result of Christian or Jewish oppression, but of the need for Muslims to validate the truth of their faith by oppressing non-Muslims. To co-exist with non-Muslims is blasphemous for a Muslim, when his Koran proclaims "Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" (Koran 5:51). Mohammed's final command was to ethnically cleanse the Jews and Christians of the Arabian Peninsula. ISIS sees itself as completing the work that he began.
CuriousFear

Con

You first made a statement that Islam is not a religion, this is so false.
Definition of religion: http://www.dictionary.com...

I can ignore 80% of your argument when you started talking about Hamas. I don't even need to explain why. You gave one source, let me talk about that in detail.

[5:51]O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: 764 They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
[5:52] Those in whose hearts 765 is a disease " thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! Perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts.
[5:53] And those who believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oath by Allah, that they were with you? 766 All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin."
[5:54] O ye who believe! If any from among you turn back from this Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him, - lowly with the Believers, mighty against the Rejecters, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. 767 That is the Grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasses all, and He knoweth all things.
[5:55] Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the Believers " those who establish regular prayers and pay charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
[5:56] As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the Believers " it is the party of Allah that must certainly triumph.
[5:57] O ye who believe! Take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport 768 " whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith: but fear ye Allah, if ye have Faith (indeed).
[5:58] When ye proclaim your call to prayer, they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are people without understanding.

This is what Ibn Abbas one of the companions of the prophet had to say about this verse

(O ye who believe!) in Muhammad and the Qur'an. (Take not the Jews and Christians for friends) seeking their assistance and help. (They are friends one to another) He says: some are followers of the religion of others in secret and in the open, just as they are friends of each other. (He among you) O group of believers (who taketh them for friends) seeking their assistance and help (is (one) of them) in alliance and is not included in Allah's protection and safety. (Lo! Allah guideth not) to His religion and proof (wrong-doing folk) the Jews and Christians.

It is clear that we can have non-Muslim friends.
Debate Round No. 2
MiscoSRB

Pro

O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: 764 They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them.

THAT IS THE POINT!!!
Yeah you "can" have non-muslim friends but chances are very rare!!
I did not say Islam is not a religion and I don't know where did you see that?
And those are FACTS!!!
Yeah not all muslims are bad but when you have 300 million people that support some kind of terrorism that is a big problem!!!

And final fact!!
How are you punished if you try to change religion(If you are muslim)
YOU GET KILLED!!!STONED TO DEATH LIKE IN MEDIEVAL ERA!!!

I had many sources that confirm that facts.

I am against homosexuality but I am not saying that you should kill him for having other sex preference.
Killing people is not right and religion that kills people for opinion,sexuality or religion IS NOT religion of peace.
Women should have same rights as man and not be forced to wear something that is not practical.Women in Islam are like slaves.And dont get me started about harems!!!

Point is that i dont have anything against Islam but i have against people that say "Islam is religion of peace"
CuriousFear

Con

In the very first round you said and I quote "Islam is not a religion and i can explain it!"

300 million people that support the killing of random people on the streets? BS.
Muslims do support Sharia Law, I myself support Sharia Law as well. Not agreeing with western standards does not mean that we support killing of whoever whenever.

Islam has a dual meaning, submission and peace. The idea is that when you submit to the will of God you attain peace.
I had a Christian friend, I have many atheist friends and my best friend is agnostic. Where are you getting your information from?
Mufti Menk |What is Islam: https://www.youtube.com...

As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. (Quran 60:8)
God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! (Quran 60:9)

You have many sources, yet you fail to give one.
The 4 fiqh schools described a death penalty for those who leave the Islamic religion. There are certain laws behind them.
First let me say that the Qur'an never speaks about the death penalty for apostasy. In fact it makes statements such as "There is no compulsion in religion" and "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." or "Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief". Sam Harris even admits to this fact.

There are two main Sahih hadiths that are used to justify the death penalty
1. Whoever changes his religion, kill him. - Bukhari
2. It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits from the jamaa'a (main group of Muslims).(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
These laws have been taken from the Old Testament, which we also use as a source for rulings and laws. They have no basis within the Qur'an and the Sunnah.

When will the death penalty be carried out?
1. The apostate lives in a Muslim country with complete Sharia Law (e.g. Saudi Arabia).
2. The apostate comes out publicly within the state (So you can apostate by keeping it to yourself)
3. If the apostate doesn't repent within 3 days when he is caught and interrogated
4. You're a male, there is no death penalty for the woman in this case
5. The Muslim king is the only one who can give a final verdict, so if he decided that the punishment is execution then the apostate is killed.

So the death penalty can easily be avoided, if they don't then it is honestly the apostate's fault.

As I said, Sharia Law is only based on the Fiqh schools. The death penalty is not to limit freedom of religion, but to avoid harm against the state and Islam.

If we look at the life of the prophet Muhammad SAW not a single person was punished or killed for changing his private religion. What we find is that the Hadiths probably had to do with war, for example to avoid spies.

Mufti Menk on leaving Islam and coming back: https://www.youtube.com...
Bilal Philip on apostasy: https://www.youtube.com...
Shabir Ally on apostasy: https://www.youtube.com...
Hamza Yusuf on apostasy: https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Lebo on apostasy and Yasir Qadhi on apostasy: https://www.youtube.com...

Conclusion
The Qur'an never mentions a death penalty for apostasy. The few Hadiths that call for the death penalty contradict many other Sahih Hadiths and even contradict the Qur'an. The ruling on Hadiths that contradict the Qur'an is that the Hadiths can be ignored.
Saudi Scholar talking about Hadith and Qur'an contradicting each other apostasy: https://www.youtube.com...

Further we can find that you spoke about homosexuality.

Homosexuality is only punishable if the person commits a homosexual act outside and publicly, it's not meant to limit freedom of sexual orientation. It's implemented to avoid harm to the Muslims and the youth. Homosexuality has always been seen as a mental disease or criminal act, even in western countries. It's just very recent that homosexuality is widely accepted due to the sexual revolution. The sexual revolution has only harmed our moral standards. We have car ads, beer ads, sports ads all filled with half-naked women so that the it attracts men's attention. In Islam people stay away from that nonsense.
Your opinion about the Hijab isn't worth anything at all, you dislike modesty. I dislike women walking out like animals. It's subjective.

Throughout this debate you didn't give me a single source, your forgot what you write and gave your opinion continuously.
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
I choose not to debate with stupidty. Your arguments were weak at best.
Posted by harrytruman 2 months ago
harrytruman
@Curiousfear
Are you a Sunni or Shia?
Posted by harrytruman 2 months ago
harrytruman
This is embarrassing, MiscoSRB cites no verses from the Qur'an to back his claims!
Posted by CuriousFear 2 months ago
CuriousFear
You can challenge me for a debate, no need to debate in the comments.
Posted by CuriousFear 2 months ago
CuriousFear
You can challenge me for a debate, no need to debate in the comments.
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
""" There are two main Sahih hadiths that are used to justify the death penalty
1. Whoever changes his religion, kill him. - Bukhari
2. It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits from the jamaa'a (main group of Muslims).(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
These laws have been taken from the Old Testament, which we also use as a source for rulings and laws. They have no basis within the Qur'an and the Sunnah. "

When will the death penalty be carried out?
1. The apostate lives in a Muslim country with complete Sharia Law (e.g. Saudi Arabia).
2. The apostate comes out publicly within the state (So you can apostate by keeping it to yourself)
3. If the apostate doesn't repent within 3 days when he is caught and interrogated
4. You're a male, there is no death penalty for the woman in this case
5. The Muslim king is the only one who can give a final verdict, so if he decided that the punishment is execution then the apostate is killed.

So the death penalty can easily be avoided, if they don't then it is honestly the apostate's fault.Type your comments here... ""

It sounds as though the Death Penalty is actually quite easily handed out to anyone who disagrees with the teachings of Islam. That is your words not mine. The religion of intolerance and hatred has you so brainwashed you see nothing wrong with what stupidity you wrote here
Posted by tonyrobinson 2 months ago
tonyrobinson
Islam has been a violent religion from Day 1. Muhammad was pathetic excuse for a man and far from anyone to follow. I have spoke to peaceful Muslims and got along well with them they however did not follow the strict teachings of the Qu'ran which encourages death to "infidels" and even Muslims who were not in agreement with the teachings of the Qu'ran. They even have "honor killings" for Muslims who fail to follow the Qu'ran by becoming "too westernized". The submission to their God is by any means necessary even by force.
Prior to the first Crusade the Muslims controlled Jerusalem and they allowed Christians and Jews to peacefully go in and out of the city unharmed. The three religions lived amongst each other peacefully. The Seljuk Turk Saladin however was not okay with that as he followed the Qu'ran, and sought to remove everyone but the violent radicalized Muslim people from Jerusalem and not allow anyone else visit the Holy sights within it. Jihad is spoken of multiple times in the Qu'ran. Disparaging depictions of Muhammad is punishable by death. The makers of South Park had death threats against them for insulting Muhammad. Any country in the world that has a Muslim population but does not have Sharia law has sleeper cells trying to destroy that government to enforce Sharia upon the government.
True Islam is not a religion of peace, but of violence and hatred for anyone who does not conform to their beliefs.
Posted by CuriousFear 3 months ago
CuriousFear
Calm your tits man
Posted by MiscoSRB 3 months ago
MiscoSRB
Ok I am sorry I misspelled I wanted to say "Islam is not a religion of peace"
AND THERE IS NO RELIGION OF PEACE!!!!
Christianity IS NOT a religion of peace!!!
Islam IS NOT a religion of peace!!
Judaism IS NOT a religion of peace!!!
THERE IS NO RELIGION OF PEACE!!!!!
ISLAM WAS MADE ON WAR!!
END OF DISCUSSION!!
Posted by CuriousFear 3 months ago
CuriousFear
so that it attracts men's attention.*
That's what I meant to write
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Bored_Debater 3 months ago
Bored_Debater
MiscoSRBCuriousFearTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's says Mohamed's last call was for genocide, wasn't backed with a source. I couldn't verify it myself and I did try.. Pro also states that Muslims can't have non-Muslim friends. None of Pro's points were backed with sources which hurts him cause voters can't have proof, having to rely on his word. Con rebuts these with quotes from the Quran and explaining what the quote meant. He states that not only can Muslims have friends but he as a Muslim has friends from other religions including ones that aren't in one. All of his points are validated for sources. Though I personally agree with Pro, I must give the points to Con. Both argument and source points goes to Con... If Pro had used quotes from the Quran actively calling for violence and used both terrorist and non terrorist groups from throughout history, backed with sources. I would have voted you as winner.