The Instigator
Youngastronomer
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
chokerboy12345
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Islam is violent

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 669 times Debate No: 100298
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (0)

 

Youngastronomer

Con

Islam is violent? I will argue this is false, it's quite a misinterpreted religion.
1) Acceptance
2) Rebuttals
3) Defense
chokerboy12345

Pro

First I would like to thank con for creating this debate.

I, myself, am a pro-violence kind of guy and I really admire Islam. It hates women, gays, Jews and infidels. Judaism and Christianity are also like that but unfortunately we aren't violent because of it.

Islamic scripture is extremely violent. Haven't you ever read the Qur'an con? It is the word of the Muslim god. Qur'an (8:12) has their god giving his angels the command to behead infidels. Verse 9:29 says Muslims must fight the non-believers until we willingly pay the jizya, which is a tax for infidels. If we fail to pay the tax, we must either convert to Islam or we will be killed.
Oh, another great non-violent fact about Islam is that if you leave it, the punishment is death. This rule was put in place by Muhammad (pbuh) himself.
Debate Round No. 1
Youngastronomer

Con

Islam isn't violent, rather it describes it's self defence because of the persecutions Muhammad and his followers has faced for months and forced to fight 1000 fully armed of THEIR OWN RELATIVES.

Their own relatives persecuted the Muslims so much that they moved to Abbyssinia/Ethiopia.

Then they migrated to Madina and were helped out by the Ansaar (Helpers). About "Torturing" the Jews and all that. The Jews broke a treaty/deal twice and attempted to kill the prophet and were punished after their 2nd chance. On the first chance they were forgiven and was given another treaty. The Jews took advantage of this and broke the treaty again, then captured and exiled. Anyone who attempts to kill a leader should be punished, right?
No?
Let's all kill Trump because we don't agree with him, nah that's not the way. The Jews got what was coming to them.

About gays, yes gays are disliked but are not ordered to be punished.

Women? Have you read Surah Nisa? Also women and men are equally punished for the same crime they did. Women are not oppressed, women were given respect and were taken away from being treated like dogs from the Quraish tribe.

If women are so oppressed? Why do more women go to Islam than men? I don't think a women would like to be a slave or a doormat.
chokerboy12345

Pro

I agree with you I think all Jews should be killed. They deserve it. But that doesn't change the fact that it is violent to kill them. Muhammad (pbuh) came to the Jewish city of Medina as a refugee, and then he killed, enslaved or drove away all the Jews living there. A peaceful man would not have done that. Compare Muhammad to Jesus. He gets captured after he is betrayed, Peter attacks the soldiers and Jesus tells Peter to stop.

Muhammad would have killed you if you insulted his god or himself (Sahih Muslim 1801).

This is what the Qur'an says about infidels: Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in hellfire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)
Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

Muhammad (pbuh) said multiple times that he must fight the infidels until everyone is Muslim.

You said gays are not to be punished. That is a lie.
Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"
Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.". People of Loot refers to homosexual acts done in Sodom and Gomorrah.
Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."
Sahih Bukhari (72:774) - "The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses .' The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman."
al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

Women convert to Islam because women are lesser beings. They have no reason, they have no logic, they are animals. Most of the ones who convert to Islam do not read about it, they are stupid white women who decide they want to do something different. Kind of like the ones who convert to Buddhism.

As for your argument that women are not oppressed, yes they are.
Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"
Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."
Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels can not be female in Islam.
Sahih Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"
Sahih Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the donkeys'" FYI Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and took her virginity when she was 9.
Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, a donkey, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."
Al-Tirmidhi 3272 - "When Allah's Messenger was asked which woman was best he replied, 'The one who pleases (her husband) when he looks at her, obeys him when he gives a command, and does not go against his wishes regarding her person or property by doing anything of which he disapproves'."
Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves."
Debate Round No. 2
Youngastronomer

Con

You're still misinterpreting the verses that have been given. The prophet was at war with his own relatives who tried to kill him for years and finally he reacted

Source below for what the verses really mean
https://discover-the-truth.com...

The prophet did not hate the Jews, the Jews hated him and took it too far and broke the peace treaty/agreement to not fight each other and share the city, so then they received a punishment, seriously?

Death penalty for apostasy? Nope, that's false too.
http://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com...

Background: Some think that once you are a "muslim" if you decide to change your beliefs you are considered an apostate, an act punishable by death!

The Quran clearly states there are those who believe then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve again. This proves death for apostasy simply did not exist, because if it did, it would be impossible to believe again after unbelief, as they would have been put to death after the first unbelief:

Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, God will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path. [4:137]

This is further proven by the following verse:

How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people. [3:86]

The Quran states, in no uncertain terms, that there is no compulsion in religion:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most sure hand-hold, that never breaks. And God is Hearing, Knowing. [2:256]

The Quran states that God could have made all those on earth believe, thus asks who is man to enforce such a thing if God did not:

And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers? [10:99]

The Quran states there were those who believed part of the time, then disbelieved part of the time in order to confuse and sow discord amongst the believers of the time. If death for apostasy existed, no sane minded person would attempt to do this as they would be killed the very first time they tried it:

A section of the People of the Book say: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) Turn back. [3:72]

Please also see the clear example set out in 4:88-91, in which the believers are told to offer peace with those who became hypocrites/apostates (i.e. were Muslim in name only but did not follow through with action during hostilities/fighting in this case) if they also offer peace.

To conclude, it is clear that 'death for apostasy' does not exist in The Quran. People are free to believe and live their lives accordingly or not. If a community or system or any structure deprives its members of this basic freedom, it will produce hypocrites and suppressed people who have no strength of belief or goals to work for and will likely result in a weak system or community. Freedom of belief is the air that healthy and just communities breathe.

So yes, all these misconceptions about Islam are entirely false.
chokerboy12345

Pro

30391 terror attacks committed in the name of Islam since 9/11.

Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. http://www.answering-islam.org...

Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad (33:21).

Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.
Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
(48:19), Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3432, (56:15), Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390, Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 74, Number 278, Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137.

After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other.

Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.

It was the same caliph, Umar, who ordered the death of the first convert to Islam at Medina, an elderly leader who became a close companion to Muhammad and proved his worth in battle. Sa'd ibn Ubadah was killed after a failed bid to be caliph.

Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death.

Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.

The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war...

Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands. A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countries outside of Saudi Arabia.

Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.
None of these other religions are at war with each other.

People who leave the faith ARE to be killed.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

http://thereligionofpeace.com...
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Youngastronomer 9 months ago
Youngastronomer
I missed a part where he said the Jews were captured, enslaved, etc. They were given a peace treaty but they kept getting betrayed so it was the infidel's fault they were punished, no one ever seems to learn the full story.
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
Nope, not my opinion on the matter.
Posted by Youngastronomer 10 months ago
Youngastronomer
Man, that Christian you spoke of made no sense to be honest. Sorry, I thought that was actually you saying that.
Posted by Youngastronomer 10 months ago
Youngastronomer
@Whiteflame If it's so Satanic, why do we worship the same God? Yes we do, Yahweh is not God's name, it's a title. God has 99 names, Christianity simply translates them into Hebrew, Christians are hypocritical most of the time. For instance, Yahweh = "The Lord"
Al Rabb = "The Lord"

God is not Jesus's father, simply a creator, he had no father, Mary was a virgin, says so in your old bible, there's no use in hiding it by changing it every year. Christianity is violent too, there's far more violence in the Quran than the bible.

Claimed Quran violence: 2.1%
Bible violence: 2.8%

Sorry Christians, your loss.
http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://www.loonwatch.com...

1 Samuel 15:1 Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people, over Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord.

15:2 This is what the Almighty Lord says: "I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and utterly destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

Christians, you want to get rid of a violent religion with a violent religion. Totally makes sense right?
Posted by whiteflame 10 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: pro_debater_2000// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Pro. Reasons for voting decision: Islam is meant to be a violet religion. In fact, it is actually a branch of Satanism. Allah is Satan in disguise. He put a spell on a lot of people and 1.6 billion people have been affected by it. As Christians, we must stop this nonsense and fight for world peace and exterminate "Islam."

[*Reason for removal*] This is not an RFD. The voter doesn"t explain any of the point allocations, and instead clearly imposes his view of the topic on the debate. The voter is required to assess arguments made by the debaters, and making arguments that the voter uses as a means to award points is not sufficient for any RFD.
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Posted by Youngastronomer 10 months ago
Youngastronomer
"I agree with you I think all Jews should be killed. They deserve it. But that doesn't change the fact that it is violent to kill them."

He got me slightly wrong there, I said Jews were killed in self defence, not in oppression.
Posted by Youngastronomer 10 months ago
Youngastronomer
All these "violent" verses are descriptions and history. It's not a rulebook, it's words God has said. As the prophet said, people with empty intellects will not understand the Quran remotely, seems like it's true to me.
Posted by Youngastronomer 10 months ago
Youngastronomer
Taqiyya does NOT mean lying for success. It's lying to stay alive. Prophet Musa's (Moses) mother used this to protect her son from Firaun (Pharaoh). This myth about taqiyya had got to end.
Posted by Vinnie_Cross_Briet 10 months ago
Vinnie_Cross_Briet
Yes its teachings are obviously violent. Muslims claiming otherwise eithet lie via a hadith doctrine called Taqiya or something like that, are deluded, deceived or just dont really know wgat they are talking about. Strange.
Posted by Pierce_Presley 10 months ago
Pierce_Presley
If I could vote, I'd vote Pro. Personally I've looked into Islam an okay bit, and the stuff I saw all showed how Islam was a violent religion.
No votes have been placed for this debate.