The Instigator
Valtin
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
Crescendo
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Islamic debate!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Valtin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/4/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,030 times Debate No: 54001
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

Valtin

Pro

Hello, in this debate, Con must choose a topic that is related to Islam(any topic), and I will, God willing, refute it(/w.e), depending on the topic you are choosing.

Limit the topic to Islam please.
Crescendo

Con

Greetings to my opponent, and I would like to be con in the debate "Christianity and Islam are Compatible," if my opponent doesn't mind.
Debate Round No. 1
Valtin

Pro

I thank Con for choosing the topic, 'Christianity and Islam are compatible', I will show that Muslims, and Christians can live together in peace, but first we need to ignore all of which happened from the past(Saladin and lionheart/crusades), and I will establish that Muslims and Christians can live together in peace, if they follow the Qur'an and the Bible.

Definitions:

Compatible: "capable of existing together in harmony"[1]

Harmony: ": a pleasing combination or arrangement of different things"(Could also means peace, because one of the antonyms of the word Harmony is violence, therefore Harmony can be considered peace.)[2]

[1]http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2]http://www.merriam-webster.com...


Following the Qur'an and the Bible:

First we can understand that conflicts and violence happens between different religions because:
1)one or both religions promote violence, which both Islam and Christianity do not do, therefore we eliminate this condition.

2)Pride and boasting of the people, the people themselves, but following the Qur'an and the Bible, people won't be like that.

Now we see these following conditions or reasons, people will get into conflict, but to prevent that we can know that if true Christians and true Muslims live together, then Harmony will established, let us see what the Qur'an and the Bible says:

Qur'an 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion;"
Quote from the Prophet of Islam(pbuh) said in his last sermon "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action."[3]

Therefore pride is forbidden in Islam, now I will show that is the same thing for Christianity.

Proverbs 16:5 "Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished. "(ESV)
Romans 12:18 "If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. " (ESV)
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. "

Same with Christianity(& Judaism) pride and arrogance is forbidden, and an abomination to the Lord, and also promotes peace.

As we can see both religions say that you should not attack anyone and live peacefully, therefore true Christians and Muslims can live in peace, and with no conflict.


[3]https://www.islamicity.com...
Crescendo

Con

Well, this is awkward. Pro and Con apparently do not intend on debating the same thing. What to do...
Debate Round No. 2
Valtin

Pro

We are debating the topic you chose which is: "Christianity and Islam are compatible" and you are Con and I am Pro, because from what you have said: " I would like to be con in the debate "Christianity and Islam are Compatible," if my opponent doesn't mind."

Rebut my argument or make an argument, I have already made mine.
Crescendo

Con

I do not disagree with the idea that Christians and Muslims can coexist, though I've yet to see an example of this outside of the Western World.
Therefore, I will be arguing that a the Christian and Muslim religions are not the same, and that Christians and Muslims do not "serve the same God."

1. Muslims do not believe in the Triune God, while Christians do believe in the Triune God, also known as the Trinity.

2. Muslims do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead, or even that he was crucified. Christians do, and this is a vital part of the Christian religion.

3. Muslims believe that the Jews corrupted the Bible. Christians do not believe this, and the verses in dispute cause irreconcilability.

4. According to the Qur'an, the Muslim message came to the Arabs from a man, Muhammad (pbuh), who received the Qur'an from a revelation of Heaven. After the first century AD ended, there were no revelations from God that are considered Canon. Simply put, after the Book of Revelation the Bible stopped being written. Also, there was no mention of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.

5. Polygamy is at odds with the original marriage idea introduced in Polygamy. While there were godly polygamists in the Bible (such as Abraham), I have not heard of a case in the Bible where God said He is okay with polygamy. Meanwhile, Muhammad (pbuh) received a revelation from Allah telling him he could have many wives. Another incompatibility.

P.S. I apologize for my lack of sources. I am using a Kindle Fire and there's a lot I don't know about how to use it.
Debate Round No. 3
Valtin

Pro

"I do not disagree with the idea that Christians and Muslims can coexist, though I've yet to see an example of this outside of the Western World.

Therefore, I will be arguing that a the Christian and Muslim religions are not the same, and that Christians and Muslims do not "serve the same God."

We are debating that can Muslims and Christians co-exist together, not whether they worship the same God, but I will try to rebut Con's argument.

"1. Muslims do not believe in the Triune God, while Christians do believe in the Triune God, also known as the Trinity."

Actually a lot of Christians do not believe the 'Triune God' (The latter day saints, Jehovah's Witnesses,etc.), so Muslims and Christians worship the same God, we can see that God is Allah as said in Genesis 1:1 of the Arabic Bible:
ي البدء خلق الله السموات والارض.
It is the same God, why would not Allah be there, then, All Abrahamic religions worship the same Abrahamic God.

"2. Muslims do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead, or even that he was crucified. Christians do, and this is a vital part of the Christian religion."

Still that does not hurt the fact that Muslims & Christians worship the same God.

"3. Muslims believe that the Jews corrupted the Bible. Christians do not believe this, and the verses in dispute cause irreconcilability."

This will suffice:
Jer 8:8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?"

"4. According to the Qur'an, the Muslim message came to the Arabs from a man, Muhammad (pbuh), who received the Qur'an from a revelation of Heaven. After the first century AD ended, there were no revelations from God that are considered Canon. Simply put, after the Book of Revelation the Bible stopped being written. Also, there was no mention of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible."

I could show Muhammad(PBUH) is really mentioned in the Bible, Isaiah 42 says:
“Behold! My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect One, in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry out, nor raise His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench. In truth He shall bring forth justice."

Qur'an and Hadith agrees with this:
"Jews came to him[Muhammad(pbuh)] and said to him: "Death be upon you [O Muhammad]." However, the answer of Muhammad, according to ‘Ā’ishah, was merely "The same on you." ‘Ā’ishah at that moment got angry and shouted at the Jews saying: "Death be upon you, and may Allah curse you and shower His wrath upon you!" According to ‘Ā’ishah, the Prophet turned to her and said: "Be gentle and calm, O ‘Ā’ishah! Be gentle and beware of being harsh and of saying evil things." She said, "Didn't you hear what they said?" He said, "Didn't you hear what I replied (to them)? I have returned their statement to them, and my invocation against them will be accepted but theirs against me will not be accepted."[1]

Qur'an 3:159 "Thus it is by Allah's grace that you are gentle to them. And if you had been harsh and hard-hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you. So pardon them and pray for forgiveness for them..."

Genesis 17:3-4 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Numbers 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them.

Numbers 16:20-22 And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Psalm 95:6 Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker;

1 Kings 18:42 So Ahab went up to eat and drink. And Elijah went up to the top of Carmel; then he bowed down on the ground, and put his face between his knees,

2 Chronicles 7:3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the Lord upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshiped, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

Nehemiah 8:6 Ezra praised the Lord, the great God; and all the people lifted their hands and responded, “Amen! Amen!” Then they bowed down and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground.

Matthew 26:39 And he [Jesus] went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Luke 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he [Jesus] went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

Who are the people praying like the Prophets? Muslims, who taught them that? Muhammad (pbuh)!

Mark 4:30-32
30 Again he said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it? 31 It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds on earth. 32 Yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds can perch in its shade.”
<a href=http://upload.wikimedia.org...; />
I could further expand on that, but I will just leave it at this.

"5. Polygamy is at odds with the original marriage idea introduced in Polygamy. While there were godly polygamists in the Bible (such as Abraham), I have not heard of a case in the Bible where God said He is okay with polygamy. Meanwhile, Muhammad (pbuh) received a revelation from Allah telling him he could have many wives. Another incompatibility."

The friend of God, Abraham(pbuh), he was God's friend, if God really did not permit polygamy( King David, Solomon(Pbut) they all were polygamists), I think God will stand up and tell his friend to not marry Hagar, if God did not want polygamy, God does not mention whether Polygamy is forbidden or not, but wait Prophets were polygamists, and they are men sent from God,God would not send sinful men, or are you telling me otherwise?

[1]http://sunnah.com...
Crescendo

Con

"We are debating that can Muslims and Christians co-exist together, not whether they worship the same God, but I will try to rebut Con's argument."

Actually, my original intent was to debate Chrislam. Perhaps my opponent does not understand this?

"Actually a lot of Christians do not believe the 'Triune God' (The latter day saints, Jehovah's Witnesses,etc.), so Muslims and Christians worship the same God, we can see that God is Allah as said in Genesis 1:1 of the Arabic Bible:
ي البدء خلق الله السموات والارض.
It is the same God, why would not Allah be there, then, All Abrahamic religions worship the same Abrahamic God."

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are not generally considered mainstream denominations. They are often considered to have heretical doctrines, such as denial of the Trinity.
As for the Arabic Bible, that quotation was never penned by any Old or New Testament Author. It was most likely added by a Chrislamic person who wrote that Arabic Bible.

"Still that does not hurt the fact that Muslims & Christians worship the same God."

They don't.

"This will suffice:
Jer 8:8 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?'"

I would advise you to read this:
http://www.answering-islam.org...

"I could show Muhammad(PBUH) is really mentioned in the Bible, Isaiah 42 says:
'Behold! My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect One, in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry out, nor raise His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench. In truth He shall bring forth justice.'"

There's no evidence this verse refers to Muhammed (pbuh).

"Jews came to him[Muhammad(pbuh)] and said to him: "Death be upon you [O Muhammad]." However, the answer of Muhammad, according to "Ā"ishah, was merely "The same on you." "Ā"ishah at that moment got angry and shouted at the Jews saying: "Death be upon you, and may Allah curse you and shower His wrath upon you!" According to "Ā"ishah, the Prophet turned to her and said: "Be gentle and calm, O "Ā"ishah! Be gentle and beware of being harsh and of saying evil things." She said, "Didn't you hear what they said?" He said, "Didn't you hear what I replied (to them)? I have returned their statement to them, and my invocation against them will be accepted but theirs against me will not be accepted."[1]

Qur'an 3:159 "Thus it is by Allah's grace that you are gentle to them. And if you had been harsh and hard-hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you. So pardon them and pray for forgiveness for them..."

I mean no offense, but I do not understand what the *expletive* these verses have to do with anything.

Then, you mentioned a bunch of verses about prayer. This is also irrelevant, as Muhammed (pbuh), who lived many centuries later, could not possibly have taught them to pray.

Then, you mention the Biblical Parable of the Mustard seed and then you showed a map of Islam's growth, to show that Islam was this mustard seed.
But actually, Islam's spread was caused mostly by the sword. For instance, this is how Islam was spread to Mecca:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Then, here's how it spread further:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Now, let's contrast that with Christianity. Though it later grew militant, in its earliest days its spread was entirely peaceful. In fact, it spread even in the face of extreme persecution.

I rest my case, please vote for Con.
Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
People were not forced into Islam, it is actually forbidden(2:256) Jews,Muslims, and Christians lived in peace in the days of Spain, after Ferdinand and isabella came they forced people to be Christian or death, early Christian brought the pagan Roman culture(i.e. Christmas) Romans, liked it and converted, just put the pieces together and there ya go.
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
People were not forced into Islam, it is actually forbidden(2:256) Jews,Muslims, and Christians lived in peace in the days of Spain, after Ferdinand and isabella came they forced people to be Christian or death, early Christian brought the pagan Roman culture(i.e. Christmas) Romans, liked it and converted, just put the pieces together and there ya go.
Posted by Crescendo 3 years ago
Crescendo
What I'm saying is that in its earliest days Christianity spread nonviolently, even though it became militant later. The same cannot be said about Islam.
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
When the last round comes he talks about how Islam was spread by the sword,when in fact Christianity was forced into people in Europe, after that it resulted in Jewish & Muslim expulsions(i.e. Islamic Spain) I could further elaborate, but Con brought new arguments in the last round.
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
When the last round comes he talks about how Islam was spread by the sword,when in fact Christianity was forced into people in Europe, after that it resulted in Jewish & Muslim expulsions(i.e. Islamic Spain) I could further elaborate, but Con brought new arguments in the last round.
Posted by ESocialBookworm 3 years ago
ESocialBookworm
Cresendo, next time you should define your topic in R1 to avoid confusion. :) :p
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
I think It is better to cancel the debate since, I did not understand it, my apologies.
Posted by Valtin 3 years ago
Valtin
Well compatible does not mean mix of two things, It means 2 things being together in one environment with no conflict, next time use the correct meanings, because I have no knowledge on Chrislam and it is forbidden for a Muslim to be like the non-Muslims.
Posted by Crescendo 3 years ago
Crescendo
I was talking about the idea of Chrislam.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
ValtinCrescendoTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Not a debate. Con tried to game this debate by debating something that isn't Islamic.