The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
26 Points
The Contender
acetraveler
Con (against)
Losing
19 Points

Islamophobia is the new anti-Semitism in Europe and the US.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/4/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,302 times Debate No: 4586
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (14)
Votes (11)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

I would like to invite my fellow debaters to read the following news item:

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

…and then read the public reaction to the story…

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk...

There has been a Jewish community in England for almost a thousand years and they have had their own religious courts, the Beth Din, since 1706.

http://www.theus.org.uk...

For many years, the Jews were held in suspicion by British people, often persecuted or even viciously attacked, a notable example of such an incident being the massacre of the Jews at Clifford's Tower in York, England, in 1190.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...

However, since the end of World War II when the horrors of the Holocaust were exposed, the Jewish community have received the sympathy and respect of most European and American people, with only the most bigoted of xenophobes continuing to voice anti-Semitic views.

However, since the events of September 11th 2001 in the US, and the subsequent terrorist atrocities in Europe, European and American bigots have largely refocused their vitriolic prejudice away from Jews (and newly arrived immigrants) to people of the Islamic faith. While nobody questions the existence of the Beth Din, there is a public outcry when the Islamic equivalent is proposed.

Thus, Islamophobia has largely replaced anti-Semitism in Europe and North America.
acetraveler

Con

I think you exaggerate the facts in your example too much.
First, do you really sure the replies in the 'http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk......' can represent well the opinions of whole English? Even if it is true, what make you think they really have to intention to say 'I hate muslim and Islam.'. Don't you think it is the problem of the separation of church and state to the law system or the principle of territorial privilege for jurisdiction? If some minor church in the UK require the same thing like the muslims to the government, you may think it is the problem of the separation of church and state to the law system and in the problem of lawmaking course. But, because only changing to muslim and other religions, if you say it is the Islamophobia, it is the too much over exaggerating this situation. If you really want to say Islamophobia, you show us more relating examples like the news in the discrimination to the muslims with their daily lives.

In addition, Jewish people were harshed from the far past, but today is different than the past. Respecting human rights is the common value in our current age, so the discrimination like the witch-hunting are efficiently prevented in the modern age in the Western World. In addition, Muslims have many different aspects than the Jewish in the past so the problem in the present is different. It is not the problem of the new anti-Semitism in Europe and the US.

Finally, bigots always find their victims. It is not the special situation. Of course everyone included me have some prejudice, but I don't think they do not distinct the most of the peaceful muslim and the terrorists. I want to more detail examples related to this problem.

I'll wait your reply.
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

Hello acetravel, thanks for joining the debate.

The main thrust my of my argument does not concern the separation of church and state, rather the attitude of the media in particular and society in general towards the muslim community.

It would appear that it is considered acceptable to make disparaging comments about people of the Islamic faith when similar remarks about Jews would be considered anti-Semitic.

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com...

So we can see that, while anti-Semitism is (rightly) condemned, Islamophobia has gained mainstream social acceptability.
acetraveler

Con

Everyone, brian eggleston have some serious mistake in this debate so I hope you will vote for me to my win because of the reasons.
First, brian eggleston said 'The main thrust my of my argument does not concern the separation of church and state, rather the attitude of the media in particular and society in general towards the muslim community.'. But, as I have looked before, most opinion in 'http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk...' says 'UK should be regulated by the British law, not a sharia law.'. And other opinions say 'Religion should never affect the law system.', 'England is a christian country.' and also the opposition to the Islam also exist. But, I don't think this example by beginning of the argument of Brian egglestion have proper relation with Islamphobia. Opposition and fear is a different definition.

Second, 'http://www.islamophobia-watch.com...' shows many example of discrimination to the muslims, but Brian egglestion only added 'we can see that, while anti-Semitism is (rightly) condemned, Islamophobia has gained mainstream social acceptability.' But, he does not considered my opposition. I told you again.
'Respecting human rights is the common value in our current age, so the discrimination like the witch-hunting are efficiently prevented in the modern age in the Western World. In addition, Muslims have many different aspects than the Jewish in the past so the problem in the present is different. It is not the problem of the new anti-Semitism in Europe and the US.'
First, Muslims are not pressured to live in ghetto like Jews. They also have their rights that the law guarantee them.
Second, Muslims do not monopoly the money in the country like Jews in the past, so someone like Hitler cannot easily charged to the muslims who make the other people poor like Jews.
Third, in the member comments, Brian eggleston give me a powerful evidence. -http://www.realclearpolitics.com...- I cite from this site.
If you think I distort the subject in the writings, please come to the sites and check it. The main subject in the page is this. : The fact remains that the term "Islamophobia" has one purpose -- to suppress any criticism, legitimate or not, of Islam. And given the cowardice of the Western media, and the collusion of the left in banning any such criticism (while piling it on Christianity and Christians), it is working.

1. What do anti-Semitism, racism and Islamophobia have in common?
In fact, nothing.
But according to Islamist groups, Western media and the United Nations, they have everything in common. Anti-Semites hate all Jews, racists hate all members of another race, and Islamophobes hate all Muslims.
2. The equation of Islamophobia with racism is particularly dishonest. Muslims come in every racial group, and Islam has nothing to do with race. Nevertheless, mainstream Western media, Islamist groups calling themselves Muslim civil liberties groups and various Western organizations repeatedly declare that Islamophobia is racism.
3. Even granting that there are people who fear Islam, how does that in any way correlate with racism? If fear of an ideology rendered one racist, all those who fear conservatism or liberalism should be considered racist.
Of course, some may argue that whereas conservatism and liberalism are ideas, Islam is a religion, and while one can attack ideas, one must not attack religions. It is, however, quite insulting to religions to deny that they are ideas. Religions are certainly more than ideas -- they are theological belief systems -- but they are also ideas about how society should be run just as much as liberalism and conservatism are. Therefore, Islam, or Christianity, or Judaism, or Buddhism should be just as subject to criticism as conservatism or liberalism.
However, the only religion the West permits criticism of is Christianity. People write books, give lectures and conduct seminars on the falsity of Christian claims, or on the immoral record of Christianity, and no one attacks them for racism or bigotry, let alone attacks them physically. The head of the Anti-Defamation League announces that conservative Christians are the greatest threat to America today, and no one charges him with racism or Christianophobia.
Latest proof: This past week a man in New York was charged with two felonies for what is being labeled the hate crime of putting a Koran in a toilet at Pace College. Not misdemeanors, mind you, felonies. Meanwhile, the man who put a crucifix in a jar of urine continues to have his artwork -- "Piss Christ" -- displayed at galleries and museums. A Koran in a toilet is a hate crime; a crucifix in pee is a work of art. Thanks in part to that brilliant term, "Islamophobia."

Because of the reasons, I argue the opposition of Islam and Islamphobia should be distinguished, and we should have more careful research related to this subject. And Finally, I beg you vote for me.
Brian eggleston and everyone. I declare this debate is over from now on and see you next debate.
Debate Round No. 2
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dilara 3 years ago
Dilara
Islam is more discriminated against than Judaism. In America Jews control all the media and money so no discrimination there. In the U.S most anti muslim people are bible belty, stupid crazy people. The rest of us are pretty tolerant.
Posted by DPerrone99 9 years ago
DPerrone99
Unless I missed it, there is the obvious point that throughout history Jews never had a safe haven. Now they have Israel. Muslims, however, have been demographically dominant in large geographical areas for centuries. Thus it is difficult to compare the two.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"At the risk of getting bogged down in Semitic semantics, Hebrew Jews and Arabs are both from the same race – the Semites."

Scientifically perhaps. But racism is never based on good science, and thus the racists of both sides define their race such as to be able to disagree with you :D
Posted by acetraveler 9 years ago
acetraveler
See you next debate, brian eggleston. Thank you for debating with me.
Posted by Xera 9 years ago
Xera
I agree with Acetraveler here. Most of the articles that were shown were statements that someone somewhere didn't like Muslims and said so. On the first page there were 10 stories, and only ONE actually showed anything physical taking place, and at that it was VANDALISM. We're seriously to compare that to the huge number of beatings and murders committed against the Jews? There was one article that showed that Asians and Blacks were commonly targeted as victims in hate crimes and police random searches, but the article just said that the Muslims felt targeted, without offering a statement that Muslims /were/ the target, just Blacks and Asians. Even the biased site supposed to report against issues of islamophobia didn't report the amount of violence necessary in order to really compare with what the Jewish community has had to live with.
Posted by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
Thanks for the debate, once again, acetraveller - I must compliement you on your English, you have obviously been practicing!
Posted by Zerosmelt 9 years ago
Zerosmelt
dido that thelapsang. I'm reading sam harris right now and things are pretty scary indeed. Especially bc the left is so afraid of being anti islam and the right is so eager to turn this into a christian vs, muslim thing.
Posted by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
The Arabs around Israel are of course also Semitic people.
Consequently, a good many jews are anti-Semitic ;-)
Posted by brian_eggleston 9 years ago
brian_eggleston
At the risk of getting bogged down in Semitic semantics, Hebrew Jews and Arabs are both from the same race – the Semites.

http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
You realize that the analogy can never be perfect because the term "anti-semite" often applies to the Jewish "race" as well as religion?
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Dilara 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: They both had good arguments but pros were better
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