The Instigator
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MrJosh
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Israel is a Miracle Under Assault

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MrJosh
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/11/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,073 times Debate No: 58850
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (26)
Votes (1)

 

LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

God protects Israel.
MrJosh

Con

I accept this debate, and look forward to PRO supporting his claim with reasoned arguments and sources in the subsequent rounds.
Debate Round No. 1
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

At the time of this writing, Israel and Hamas continue to exchange fire — Israel with precision strikes aimed at Hamas fighters, and Hamas aiming for maximum casualties, mostly against civilian population centers. According to The New York Post, Hamas launched three rockets at a nuclear power plant in Israel on Wednesday. The Iron Dome defense system shot down one, and the other two missed their target — averting a potential nuclear disaster with tremendous ecological consequences, and long-term casualties Seven Palestinians were killed as they tried to form a “human shield” at a house they knew the Israelis were targeting. After Israeli Defense Forces dropped leaflets warning that the house would be hit, Hamas leaders encouraged civilians to come to the house, with some even standing on the roof. Hamas continues to follow the pattern of placing their leaders, missile launchers, and other weapons in residential areas. They base their strategy on Israel’s humanitarian concerns, while showing no such concerns of their own.The Hamas arsenal includes rockets that are bigger and more powerful than in previous conflicts. They can now hit Jerusalem and Tel Aviv from the Gaza Strip. The new rockets were made in Syria, and arrived in Gaza by way of Iran. Since Egypt shut its border with Gaza, such smuggling operations should be more difficult in the future. Hamas is still officially recognized as a terrorist organization by the United States, the European Union, Japan, Canada, Jordan, and Egypt. But for the EU, that may be changing. As you can imagine, many nations do not recognize them as a terror group, including the usual suspects — Russia, China, Turkey, and Iran.The EU and UN continue to equate the actions of Israel with those of Hamas. In ridiculous attempts to be even-handed, they condemn both sides as equally culpable . . . with one exception. They never mention Hamas in their condemnations — only the “Palestinian Islamic Jihad.” That wording is important because the major players on world stage are now in the process of rehabilitating the image of Hamas.An Israeli ground invasion of Gaza seems imminent. If that happens, how will the world respond? Support for Israel has diminished a great deal in the last few years, especially among US and EU leaders. Liberal churches, media, and academia continue their fight against Israel despite the nation’s record of human rights and respect for human dignity.Why? Because Israel embarrasses them. Israel is what they say does not exist — a miracle.Since its official establishment in 1948, modern Israel has existed under duress. Its strength has waxed, waned, then waxed again repeatedly. It began as a miracle and continues as an ongoing miracle. So, to those who don’t believe in miracles, Israel makes no sense. They repeatedly try to “help” in ways that can only hurt.Round after round of peace talks fail, yet the nation persists. Wave after wave of violence strikes at it, yet Israel survives. More than that, Israel prospers. Even Israelis struggle to understand. How could this happen?The answer is simple. God keeps His Word. God made certain unconditional covenants with Abraham and his descendents through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob. These covenants promised that God would make them His nation forever, and that a very specific piece of real estate was given to them forever. Although God predicted that they would stray from Him so that He would have to discipline them, He nevertheless swore that He would bring them back and fulfill all His promises to them. He also promised that though He would discipline them Himself, He would judge everyone who persecuted them. He also promised that He would bless all who would bless them. And that even if they would be under His discipline, He would curse all who mistreated them. What the unbelieving people of the world fail to understand is that God has consistently fulfilled these covenant-promises all through history. Especially in these last days before His Son returns to fulfill His promise to give the believing remnant of Israel a Kingdom over which they will co-rule with Him.All of this is being set up before our eyes. The world needs to take heed that there is only one people to which God, the creator and possessor of this planet, has ever given a title deed to a specific piece of real estate. And that is the Israelites. Prophecy indicates that the last Great War will be fought because of the world’s efforts to take away His peoples’ land and its Holy City. Expect that over the next few years, the whole world will become intent upon taking away the nation of Israel’s Divinely promised land – especially its holy city, Jerusalem. Satan is trying everything to keep God’s promise from being fulfilled.But God’s Word can never be broken, and the nations of this fallen world will be destroyed trying to make it fail. Thank the LORD that His promises guarantee our salvation through faith in Christ’s atoning sacrifice. Maranatha! (our Lord is coming!)


Source: Hal Lindsey.com

MrJosh

Con

Wow, I’m not going to lie; that was hard to read. I would like to respectfully request that PRO use paragraphs.

God Protects Israel

PRO has yet to demonstrate his claim that Israel is protected by a deity. At best, PRO has shown that an unlikely thing has occurred (the continued existence of Israel), however, this is not evidence of divine intervention.

In fact, it can be argued that the continued existence of Israel is due, at least in part, to aid it receives from the US [1], Canada [2], the UK [3], as well as many other groups [4][5][6].

Sources:

[1] http://fas.org...
[2] http://www.jpost.com...
[3] https://www.change.org...
[4] http://www.cufi.org...
[5] http://www.shamash.org...
[6] http://www.internationalwallofprayer.org...

Debate Round No. 2
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

Israel is what they say does not exist — a miracle.Since its official establishment in 1948, modern Israel has existed under duress. Its strength has waxed, waned, then waxed again repeatedly. It began as a miracle and continues as an ongoing miracle. So, to those who don’t believe in miracles, Israel makes no sense. They repeatedly try to “help” in ways that can only hurt.Round after round of peace talks fail, yet the nation persists. Wave after wave of violence strikes at it, yet Israel survives. More than that, Israel prospers. Even Israelis struggle to understand. How could this happen?The answer is simple. God keeps His Word. God made certain unconditional covenants with Abraham and his descendents through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob. These covenants promised that God would make them His nation forever, and that a very specific piece of real estate was given to them forever. Although God predicted that they would stray from Him so that He would have to discipline them, He nevertheless swore that He would bring them back and fulfill all His promises to them. He also promised that though He would discipline them Himself, He would judge everyone who persecuted them. He also promised that He would bless all who would bless them. And that even if they would be under His discipline, He would curse all who mistreated them. What the unbelieving people of the world fail to understand is that God has consistently fulfilled these covenant-promises all through history.

August 23, 1992......Talks resumed for Israeal to surrender land for peace. Within 24 hours, Hurrican Andrew slammed the US with a cost of 30 billion dollars

April 27-Sept. 13, 1993.....Israel and the PLO work on and sign a compromise peace agreement in Washington D.C.. During this period, the USA was hit with the most widespread and devestating flooding in it's history, costing 21 billion dollars.

August 25-Sept. 10, 2001......Just before plans pushed by the USA for the most comprehensive peace plan ever between Arabia and Israel. the Twin Towers and the Pentagon were attacked on 9/11/2001. Another land for peace deal pressured by the USA is met by a national catastrophe. The immediate cost was 40 billion dollars, the cost of the economic impact was far greater.

Nov. 7-12, 2002.....During Ramadan, President Bush hosted a dinner to honor Islam and the "revelation of God's word in the holy Koran". When US officials flew to pressure Israel, 88 out of season tornadoes hit 7 states.

Aug 28, 2005.....While the Jews dug up their dead in Gaze to re-bury them in new cemeteries after the US pressured Israel into evacuating Gaza, President Bush applauded the dividing of God's land. Hurricane Katrina formed as a tropical depression the very next day, becoming the largest disaster in US history as it devestated New Orleans, drove 1 million people from their homes, and cost the USA close to 200 billion dollars.

Does anybody see a pattern? God protects Israel, and is warning the USA to stop pressuring Israel into compromises that weaken it amidst it's enemies.

Thanks to Jack T. Chick for the recent historical references......easily documented by many sources. I watched these events unfold on the national news.
MrJosh

Con

I would like to thank PRO for his comments this round. I think a sufficient response could simply be to state that correlation does not equal causation. Simply because A occurred before B, does not mean that A caused B [1]. The fact that President Bush did something one day, and the US was hit with a major “act of god” the next does not, in any way, imply that they are connected. However, to do PRO’s full response justice, I will presently address it more thoroughly.

Crappy Protection

The first thing to hit me is that if God is actually protecting Israel by way of adverse weather events in the United States, he is really doing a poor job. First off, in the events PRO noted, with a single exception, the storm took place after the event. If God were trying to protect Israel, perhaps it would have been a better idea to make the storm hit before the US took whatever action he didn’t want to happen.

Also, it is well documented that in major storms like the ones PRO noted, it is the poor that pay the greatest price [2][3]. If God was trying to prevent particular actions by the United States, perhaps a better way to affect change would be to actually do something that will primarily affect the decision makers, not the poor and helpless.

Regarding 9/11 (the exception noted earlier), the planning for the tragedy had been taking place for years before the event [4][5]. Therefore, if God was going to use 9/11 as a message to the US, he had it in the works for years before the peace plan, and then he allows the talks to occur before extinguishing thousands of innocent lives in an attempt to get the leaders of the United States to take notice. If this is the best protection your God can offer, he is doing a crappy job.

Final Thoughts

PRO has claimed that Israel is under the protection of a god, yet he has not provided any solid evidence in support of this claim. He basically relies on a cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, commonly referred to in English by the phrase, “correlation does not equal causation” [1]. He has also not addressed my point that the continued existence of Israel my well be the result of support from other nations. He has failed to fulfill his burden, and I have shown that his claim is unlikely to be true, even though I had no burden to do so.

Sources:

[1] http://www.princeton.edu...
[2]
http://www.nytimes.com...
[3]
http://www.gallup.com...
[4]
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com...
[5]
http://www.cnn.com...

Debate Round No. 3
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
I still don't believe you are for real, but what if I was a student of language and was able to parse out pre-English translations? To hold to a single translation is just silly, especially one so out of date and known to be in error.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
well if you want to use perverted versions of God's Word which are nothing but attempts to discredit God's Word, go ahead.
Posted by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
I call Poe [1]. Your "of course use only the King James Bible" is a bit too much.

[1] http://rationalwiki.org...'s_Law
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Binding Contract:

I, God, do hereby swear by the blood of my Son, Jesus, to overlook all of your violations of my Holy Law and grant you full pardon and entrance into eternal life by the resurrection of my Son from the dead if you will agree to the following terms:

1) You must acknowledge that you are the one who deserved to die and my Son did not deserve to die.

2) You must believe that I love you so much that I died in your place in the form of Jesus Christ my Son, and you must believe that I raised Him from the dead and can do the same for you.

3) You must ask me to accept you on these terms, asking for my mercy to forgive you and believe that I am willing to forgive you. You must receive my Son, Jesus, as your Saviour by asking me in His name to save you.

This contract is written by me in the blood of my Son whom I gave to be the satisfaction for payment for your sins against me. If you honestly agree to the terms above, and will receive my Son as your Saviour,
sign here.........................<-----your name here. It's not too good to be true, I always honor my Word, and I have committed all Judgement into the hands of My Son, Jesus, who paid the price to secure this contract for you. Did you sign it? Will you sign it?

God
.........................<---------you sign here to enter into agreement with God and receive His guarantee of pardon and eternal life
in Jesus Christ.

If you signed this agreement and received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, gettting baptized is the next step showing you are now identified in His death, burial, (shown by submersion under water) and resurrection (shown by being raised up out of water) And share the good news!

The Gospel according to John is a good place to start reading, and of course use only the King James Bible. Then read the Letter to the Romans. And pray and talk to God every day and ask Him to show Himself to you through His Word, the Bible, and thank God and praise the LORD forever.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
...if you say there is no God who created all things, life's value certainly is questionable. God values life and especially His creatures which he endowed with free will, reasoning, and creative powers like His because He is good and He enjoys Himself and He enjoys all of His creatures who do what He designed them to do, to enjoy the freedom He gave them honorably, and to give their Creator all of the honor and glory for the life He gave them.

Why should a man complain about the punishment for his sins? God does not willingly afflict or grieve people. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. All who are turned against Him will be turned into the fire of Hell. God is not willing that any shoudl perish, but that all should come to repentance. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Life Means God is Good!!!!! That is why it's value is unquestionable!!! For crying out loud, repent and believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved from the fire of Hell!! God Himself (Jesus Christ) died in your place to pay for your crimes against Him and rose from the dead so He is just to punish your violations of His holy law with the fire of Hell if you reject His payment for your sins and you refuse His offer of pardon through the blood he paid with for you......God's gift offer is eternal life, salvation from the fire of Hell which we all deserve! Recieve the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Saviour through faith and you will be a child of God and heaven.

Let me know if I can help you pray about this.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
...if you say there is no God who created all things, life's value certainly is questionable. God values life and especially His creatures which he endowed with free will, reasoning, and creative powers like His because He is good and He enjoys Himself and He enjoys all of His creatures who do what He designed them to do, to enjoy the freedom He gave them honorably, and to give their Creator all of the honor and glory for the life He gave them.

Why should a man complain about the punishment for his sins? God does not willingly afflict or grieve people. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. All who are turned against Him will be turned into the fire of Hell. God is not willing that any shoudl perish, but that all should come to repentance. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Life Means God is Good!!!!! That is why it's value is unquestionable!!! For crying out loud, repent and believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved from the fire of Hell!! God Himself (Jesus Christ) died in your place to pay for your crimes against Him and rose from the dead so He is just to punish your violations of His holy law with the fire of Hell if you reject His payment for your sins and you refuse His offer of pardon through the blood he paid with for you......God's gift offer is eternal life, salvation from the fire of Hell which we all deserve! Recieve the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Saviour through faith and you will be a child of God and heaven.

Let me know if I can help you pray about this.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
I didn't care to read any of your previous debate with me. I made a mistake in allowing you to accept that challenge. I made another mistake in not blocking you from accepting this one. I don't care arguing with people who use deceit as their strength.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
I think you are a sinner. I think you are a dead man walking and talking, dead in your sin and in danger of the fire of Hell when your time in the first death is finalized. I think you are lost. Maybe you won't get saved. I believe you can be saved.....but will you?

So you are not a Muslim, but you used the Koran as a source reference for God.......so you use unrelialbe sources because you do not believe your own sources. I think you are a liar. Do you know where liars go? It's not heaven.

I thought I had you blocked from accepting my challenges. You sure are blocked now.
Posted by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
Lol, you think I'm a Muslim? If you had actually read through the previous debate we had, you would see that I am not a Muslim, I simply used the Koran to show that your position in that debate is absurd.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
I repeatedly referenced the debate were one person argued honorable within the restrictive parameters and won the debate. You ignored that reference and blindly attacked me for my rules and guidelines in that debate. You were one of twenty or thirty who acted the same way and got blocked. You won't convince me to unblock you easily.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
LifeMeansGodIsGoodMrJoshTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro has failed to fulfill his BoP in this debate. As Con notes, he's failed to draw a line from correlation to causation. He's also engaged in a bit of cherry-picking of data, but that's largely irrelevant. The motion was put forth, and it was not supported, as Con noted. Thus, arguments to Con. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.