The Instigator
Rational_Thinker9119
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
Gami_Polizin
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Israel's Invasion Of Gaza Is Justified

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Rational_Thinker9119
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/21/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,954 times Debate No: 59340
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

First round is just for acceptance. I will be arguing that Israel is justified in their actions with regards to the Gaza strip lately, and my opponent will be arguing that they are not justified (shared burden).
Gami_Polizin

Con

Only the dead have seen the end of war -Plato

I would like to open this discussion by speaking against the recent acts of Israel on the neighbors.
Jews since time immemorial have proven to be by large, nosey-misers. They have created problems for other communities because of their bogus concept of other religions. Their approach to solving problems by using military force against the weaker enemies is not justified.
Debate Round No. 1
Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

Conduct

Con started making points for his side right off the bat when the first round was just supposed to be for acceptance only. I hope voters take this into consideration when deciding who to give conduct points to.

Why Israel Is Justified In Invading Gaza

Between July 8 and 17, Hamas fired at least 1,300 rockets over to Israel[1] with no regard to civilian casualties. Hamas even turned down cease-fire proposals backed up by the UN and the Arab League [2]. No state/ country would let themselves get rocketed without retaliation, especially when they have agreed not to attack as long as they other side agrees as well. Since Hamas is firing rockets from Gaza, and that's where all the terrorism is occurring, then it is going to be justified to invade Gaza. The only issue remaining is whether it is justified even when so many Palestinian civilians are dying. I would say; yes. The reason being because Israel gives clear warnings to the civilians in Gaza to clear areas where they plan on bombing [3]. If the civilians don't listen, or they let Hamas convince them to stay, then that is no fault of Israel. Israel is just engaging in a rightful retaliation against Hamas. If they do more damage in the war (more Palestinians have died than Israelis [4]), that doesn't mean they aren't justified, it just means they are more militarily equipped. If Hamas cared about its citizens, they would just surrender to Israel instead of using their civilians as human shields by firing rockets from civilian areas [5].

So, due to the fact that Isreal is trying to avoid violence when Hamas just keeps firing rockets without any regard to Israeli casualties, it is clear that Israel is justified in its invasion.

Sources

[1] http://www.dallasnews.com...
[2] http://www.israelnationalnews.com...
[3] http://www.post-gazette.com...
[4] http://www.irishtimes.com...
[5] http://www.jpost.com...
Gami_Polizin

Con

I am an opportunist and believe to make best use of the 4 rounds allotted as there is plenty to speak and less turns left.

The land of Israel was never formed legitimately. It was begged for and formed by force with the support of The United States of America (https://history.state.gov... ) This is the prime reason many countries still do not recognise the land of Israel as a nation. What do u expect from a country formed with the very grassroots based on falsehood, deceit and treachery? Nevertheless after formation, the greedy people of Israel wanted more land. They wanted Jerusalem; so they took it by force, fighting the Six Day War( http://en.wikipedia.org... ) although they claim the 6 day war was fought only in defense.
Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely recognized internationally.

Israel does not maintain diplomatic relations with any of its neighboring countries. All border-sharing countries see Israel as an international migraine. The whole of Arab hates Israel and its rubbish foreign policies. Shoot first, question later has been the policy of Israel. Despite numerous cease-fire and peace-making attempts by Egypt, Israel still continues to bully Syria, Gaza and its other weak neighbors. ( http://www.cartercenter.org... )
Hence i conclude the argument of round 2 by throwing light on the brief history of Israel and its despicable attitude towards the neighbors.

#I would request the Pro to save the current events happening for the last round debate
Debate Round No. 2
Rational_Thinker9119

Pro


Introduction

I thank my opponent for his last round. In this round, I will rebut all of my opponent's claims and show why my initial argument still stands.

Addressing My Opponent

Con says that land of Israel is not legitimate. However, the land was legally given to the Jewish people right after World War 2 due to a United Nations Assembly vote [1][2], and due to the fact that the Holocaust just happened (more than 6 million Jews were killed don't forget). Israel is one tiny strip in the middle of 21 much bigger Arabic countries:

Map of Arab Countries vs. Israel

As you can see, Israel is completely surrounded by Arab countries with an extreme amount of land compared to small Israel. Why not let the Jews have there own little homeland, especially the one they have the most historic roots with? "Palestinians" are not a distinct people as they are the same ethnically as Arabs from Syria, Jordan and Lebanon [3]. There is so much Arab land out there compared to Israel, but they want to fight Israel, this tiny strip of land for having it? That is like having a big jar of large cookies, and getting angry because another kid has his own small cookie.

Con also says that many nations don't recognize Israel as a Nation itself. This is somewhat true, but most of the world clearly does:



The ones in pink retracted their recognition of Israel, and the ones in purple never recognized Israel. However, the rest of the world does. 160 of the 192 UN States recognize Israel [4]. So, clearly, most of the world recognizes Israel's right to exist. So, while some countries don't recognize Israel's right to exist; most do. That clearly leans at least a bit in my favor, making it not really a good point to use against me (I'm not trying to pull an Ad Populum here though). Also, as far as the claim that Israel's grassroots based are on falsehood, deceit and treachery; there was no argument given to support it.

Now, my opponent mentions the Six-Day War. This war was provoked by the Arabs saying they wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the map, and gearing up their armies massing on Israel's borders [5]. These are acts of war; Israel did what it had to do. Now, as far as the land that was acquired, they gave most of it back in the pursuit of peace as the years progressed knowing full well that they had the capability to keep it and fight off anybody who dare oppose:



Now, as far as why Israel should have control of Jerusalem, there are plenty of reasons. Here are 12:

"1. Jerusalem has been the capital city of the Jewish people (but no one else) for 3,000 years, including both ancient Israel and current Israel. There were caliphates based in Medina, Damascus, Baghdad, and Cairo–never in Jerusalem.

2. Jews lived in Jerusalem for 1,700 years before the Arab conquests in the Seventh century.

3. Jerusalem is mentioned 641 times in the bible and 0 times in the Koran.

4. Jewish legal rights to Jerusalem (and even all of Judea/Samaria) were “irrevocably” recognized in the San Remo conference of 1920 by unanimous agreement of the 51 members of the League of Nations. Moreover, for the past 150 years, Jews have been the majority population in Jerusalem.

5. Jews were ethnically cleansed from eastern Jerusalem when they were attacked by 5 Arab armies in 1948.

6. Without Israeli security control that exists today, Jerusalem would descend into chaos, with rival militias battling each other like in the Gaza Strip. This would make life intolerable to residents and tourists alike. In 1949, 25% of Jerusalem Jews fled when exposed to random sniper fire from the Arab Legion.

7. Unified Israeli control of Jerusalem is crucial for the IDF, as it requires a secure route during wartime to move soldiers/equipment to the eastern border, along Jordan River.

8. Israeli Arab residents in Eastern Jerusalem enjoy social security and health insurance benefits valued at about $10,000 per annum. Removing such benefits and moving this population over to a tyrannical regime (PA or Hamas) is both unethical and immoral. It also violates the wishes of the majority of Arabs in eastern Jerusalem

9. If Israel were to irrationally allow the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state, the PA would not protect the Christian population or religious sites, as witnessed by the PA’s persecution of Christian Arabs in Bethlehem. The Jewish sites would also not be protected, as seen in Joseph’s tomb in Nablus (Shechem) and the synagogue in Jericho. Between 1948-1967, fifty nine Jewish religious sites were destroyed by the occupying Jordanians.

10. PA control over eastern Jerusalem would create a “magnet” for Sunni terror organizations (Muslim Brotherhood/Al Qaeda/Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Shiite or Shiite-funded terror organizations (Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas) to undermine and then take over, as in Lebanon, Gaza, and now Egypt. In fact, Jerusalem would become the focus of the rivalry by these two worldwide terror organizations. Hamas is now formally a partner for the second time of Fatah in the PA. Hamas actually hosted al-Qaeda groups in Gaza since 2006.

11. The increased hostilities, guaranteed to be created by the inevitable war, would lead to unnecessary tensions worldwide between Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

12. The division of Jerusalem is not in the interests of Israel, US, EU, PA, or local Arab residents. It is only in the interests of Iran, thereby aiding its goal of world domination." [6].


Con claims that Israel does not maintain diplomatic relations with any of its neighboring countries. This is just plain false. Just take Egypt for example:

"Israel has had full diplomatic relations with Egypt since the signing of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty in 1979." [7]

What about Jordan?:

"Israel–Jordan relations refers to diplomatic, economic and cultural relations between Jordan and Israel. The two countries have had official diplomatic relations since the 1994 signing of the Israel–Jordan peace treaty." [8]

My opponent talks about Egyptian cease-fire agreements, but the cease-fire agreement a little while ago put forward by Egypt backed up by the UN and the Arab League; Israel was ready to accept [9]. Guess who wasn't? Hamas [10]. Hamas just broke their own proposed cease-fire not too long ago [11]. Israel wants peace, but it is Hamas who wants Israel destroyed along with every Jew (it is in their charter [12]). Most Israeli citizens wants to live in peace with Palestinians with a two-state solution [13], and the Prime Minister of Israel does as well [14]. Plus, not only does Hamas, who wants Israel wiped off the map and death to all Jews, not want a two-state solution, but most Palestinian citizens don't want one either [15]! It is clear that the reason this conflict continues is because of Hamas and the people who elected the terrorist organization into power and who will not listen to reason.

Conclusion

I successfully refuted all my opponents claims, or at least made them irrelevant. My argument in the first round stands (as my opponent did extremely little to address my arguments). As far as waiting to talk about the recent conflict goes, I see no reason to do that. This whole debate was supposed to be in the context of the recent events in the first place if one reads the introduction round.

My arguments stand, my opponent's to not; the resolution has been established. Israel is justified in bombing Gaza because Hamas started firing rockets into Israel, and the continuation of Israel's military operations are justified as Hamas even rejects its own proposed cease-fire agreements and continues to attack Israel. Israel can't even confidently agree to cease-fire agreements anymore as Hamas keeps breaking them. Justification should be clear at this point.

Sources

[1] http://www.theocracywatch.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://www.factsandlogic.org...
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[5] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[6] http://www.algemeiner.com...
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[8] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[9] http://www.jta.org...
[10] http://www.vancouversun.com...
[11] http://www.rte.ie...
[12] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[13] http://www.haaretz.com...
[14] http://www.newrepublic.com...
[15] http://www.haaretz.com...

Gami_Polizin

Con

Gami_Polizin forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

All my arguments still stand; Con forfeited. Vote Pro.
Gami_Polizin

Con

Gami_Polizin forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Rational_Thinker9119 3 years ago
Rational_Thinker9119
I'll do my first round tomorrow. sorry for the wait.
Posted by Rational_Thinker9119 3 years ago
Rational_Thinker9119
I'll do my first round tomorrow. sorry for the wait.
Posted by ChosenWolff 3 years ago
ChosenWolff
Israel has authority over Gaza. I don't like the word choice "invasion"
Posted by Ajabi 3 years ago
Ajabi
I really want to debate Rational_Thinker but Politics is not my thing. I wish he would have started a philosophical debate, hai hai hai.
Posted by GOP 3 years ago
GOP
This is indeed an excellent topic. I also agree with Pro here.
Posted by YYW 3 years ago
YYW
Excellent topic, RationalThinker!
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Envisage 3 years ago
Envisage
Rational_Thinker9119Gami_PolizinTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF plus learned some interesting stuff from Pro.
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
Rational_Thinker9119Gami_PolizinTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by YYW 3 years ago
YYW
Rational_Thinker9119Gami_PolizinTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.