The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
lucasstarx2
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

It is as likely or more likely that 9/11 was an inside job as compared the "Official Story"

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/19/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,364 times Debate No: 5417
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (86)
Votes (0)

 

DucoNihilum

Con

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http://www.debate.org... (bthr004)
http://www.debate.org... (funnybrad333)

When further investigated, conspiracy theories do not hold water. They are ill informed, and rely on misunderstanding incompetence for 'evidence' for their claims.

IMPORTANT- PLEASE READ

I DO NOT SUPPORT CONSPIRACY THEORIES. I AM CON. DO NOT TAKE THIS DEBATE IF YOU INTEND TO BE CON. I AM TIRED OF THIS.

Definitions

* 9/11 refers to the terrorist attacks in the United States on 9/11/2001

* Inside job refers to 9/11 being mostly orchestrated by the United States Government as opposed to the official story.

* The official story refers to, for the most part, the story discussed in the 9/11 commission report, or at least the general idea behind it.

I have nothing to refute yet as my opponent has not posted his opening argument. My arguments will have very much to do with the road my opponent takes me down, so my primary arguments will hold for the next round.
lucasstarx2

Pro

) AWOL Chain of Command
a. It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack - George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield - all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, other than assuming their duties as decision-makers.
b. Who was actually in charge? Dick Cheney, Richard Clarke, Norman Mineta and the 9/11 Commission directly conflict in their accounts of top-level response to the unfolding events, such that several (or all) of them must be lying.
2) Air Defense Failures
a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights.
b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies - NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission - gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.
c. Was there an air defense standdown?

3) Pentagon Strike
How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation's capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

4) Wargames
a. US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack - including multiple hijackings, suicide crashbombings, and a strike on the Pentagon.
b. The multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were "real world or exercise." Did wargames serve as the cover for air defense sabotage, and/or the execution of an "inside job"?

5) Flight 93
Did the Shanksville crash occur at 10:06 (according to a seismic report) or 10:03 (according to the 9/11 Commission)? Does the Commission wish to hide what happened in the last three minutes of the flight, and if so, why? Was Flight 93 shot down, as indicated by the scattering of debris over a trail of several miles?

THE DAY - POSSIBLE SMOKING GUNS

6) Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001? How many hijackings were attempted? How many flights were diverted?

7) Demolition Hypothesis
What caused the collapse of a third skyscraper, WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane? Were the Twin Towers and WTC 7 brought down by explosives? (See "The Case for Demolitions," the websites wtc7.net and 911research.wtc7.net, and the influential article by physicist Steven Jones. See also items no. 16 and 24, below.)

FOREKNOWLEDGE & THE ALLEGED HIJACKERS

8) What did officials know? How did they know it?
a. Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the "Big Wedding"), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.
b. Various individuals came into possession of specific advance knowledge, and some of them tried to warn the US prior to September 11th.
c. Certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.

9) Able Danger, Plus - Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers
a. The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities - including the CIA, the US military's "Able Danger" program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.
b. Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another coincidence.
10) Obstruction of FBI Investigations prior to 9/11
A group of FBI officials in New York systematically suppressed field investigations of potential terrorists that might have uncovered the alleged hijackers - as the Moussaoui case once again showed. The stories of Sibel Edmonds, Robert Wright, Coleen Rowley and Harry Samit, the "Phoenix Memo," David Schippers, the 199i orders restricting investigations, the Bush administration's order to back off the Bin Ladin family, the reaction to the "Bojinka" plot, and John O'Neil do not, when considered in sum, indicate mere incompetence, but high-level corruption and protection of criminal networks, including the network of the alleged 9/11 conspirators. (Nearly all of these examples were omitted from or relegated to fleeting footnotes in The 9/11 Commission Report.)

11) Insider Trading
a. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally - including but not limited to "put options" placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London.
b. In addition, suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks.
c. Initial reports on these trades were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).

12) Who were the perpetrators?
a. Much of the evidence establishing who did the crime is dubious and miraculous: bags full of incriminating material that happened to miss the flight or were left in a van; the "magic passport" of an alleged hijacker, found at Ground Zero; documents found at motels where the alleged perpetrators had stayed days and weeks before 9/11.
b. The identities of the alleged hijackers remain unresolved, there are contradictions in official accounts of their actions and travels, and there is evidence several of them had "doubles," all of which is omitted from official investigations.
c. What happened to initial claims by the government that 50 people involved in the attacks had been identified, including the 19 alleged hijackers, with 10 still at large (suggesting that 20 had been apprehended)? http://www.chicagotribune.com...
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Con

DucoNihilum forfeited this round.
lucasstarx2

Pro

lucasstarx2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
DucoNihilum

Con

DucoNihilum forfeited this round.
lucasstarx2

Pro

lucasstarx2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
DucoNihilum

Con

DucoNihilum forfeited this round.
lucasstarx2

Pro

lucasstarx2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
DucoNihilum

Con

DucoNihilum forfeited this round.
lucasstarx2

Pro

lucasstarx2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
86 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
... lol.
Posted by LR4N6FTW4EVA 8 years ago
LR4N6FTW4EVA
"Nah. You just used word for word some one elses argument."

That's why it seemed so familiar.
Posted by funnybrad333 8 years ago
funnybrad333
The conspiracy theory is based almost entirely on metaphysical argumentation.
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
Not really. Plenty of people support the claim.
Posted by funnybrad333 8 years ago
funnybrad333
@knick-knack

This debate is so one sided that lucas is forced to play devil's advocate.
Posted by funnybrad333 8 years ago
funnybrad333
Wait Puck, so its plagiarism now?

That link you posted is exactly a verbatim copy of Pro's argument.
Posted by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
lucas-

You're PRO USA but you think that they killed thousands of its own people?

Just wondering.
Posted by Puck 8 years ago
Puck
Gah. Bad start to the day.

I meant Pro. I need my coffee. :(
Posted by Puck 8 years ago
Puck
Evil edit: Wrong quotes to Con apologies.
Posted by Puck 8 years ago
Puck
"I expect you to think the debate is cakewalk and then I use semantics and humor to win the arguement."

"Then I spend my time actually making a boring argument.."

Nah. You just used word for word some one elses argument.
http://www.911truth.org...
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