The Instigator
Arcanas
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Wylted
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

It is beneficial for debate.org to have discussions of dildos

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Wylted
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/30/2015 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,192 times Debate No: 72595
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (1)

 

Arcanas

Con

This debate is a result of Pro claiming that discussing dildos is good for this website.

Resolved: It is beneficial for Debate.org to have discussions of dildos in the forums, debates, and polls of Debate.org.
Definitions:

Dildo: "An artificial penis that is used to give sexual pleasure"
Source: http://i.word.com...

Beneficial: "producing good or helpful results or effects : producing benefits"
Source: http://i.word.com...

Debate.org: The website we are currently using in order to have his debate.
Link to the front page of this website to avoid any confusion: http://www.debate.org...

Rules (Made by bsh1):
1. No forfeits
2. Any citations or sources must be used within the character limit of the debate
3. No new arguments in the final round
4. Maintain a civil and decorous atmosphere
5. No trolling or semantics
6. No K's of the topic
7. My opponent accepts all of the following definitions and waives his/her right to challenge these definitions
8. The BOP is shared
9. You must follow this format for this debate:
R1: Acceptance
R2: Arguments (No rebuttals)
R3: Arguments and rebuttals
R4: Final rebuttals and Conclusions (No new arguments can be made in this round)
10. Violation of any of these rules results loss of a conduct point and due to the severity of the breach may merit an entire FF of the debate

Thank you and good luck.
Wylted

Pro

I accept, let's start this discussion about Dildos now. Good luck to my opponent on his opening arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
Arcanas

Con

I'd like to thank Pro for agreeing to debate me. I'll jump right into my arguments as I have nothing to rebut yet.

Through detracting new members and reducing the quality of discussion on the site, discussing dildos on this site ultimately hurts debate.org.

1. Detracting new members

Many people that would be fantastic members on debate.org are discouraged from joining the site due to the shameful content on the front page. When a member first clicks on debate.org, the front page is essentially the first thing that the person views on their screen. Discussions of dildos will inevitably end up on the front page and will be exposed to members and newcomers. In addition, anyone taking a closer look into the polls, debates, and forums will see this as well.

The argument essentially goes like this:

P1: Losing potential members is bad
P2: We lose potential members of debate.org when they see discussions of dildos in debates, polls, and threads on this site
C1: It is bad to have discussions of dildos on debate.org

Defense of P1:
I don't think my opponent will disagree with P1. Having new members on debate.org spreads variety in the site. It means more people posting debates and thus more activity on debate.org. In addition, an increased amount of members on debate.org also could motivate Juggle to start implementing new desirable features in order to generate a higher profit and to keep more members coming. When we lose potential members we also lose possible ideas, debates, and content on DDO.

Defense of P2:
Many members are discouraged to join Debate.Org when they see content that is offensive and/or is disgusting to them.For example, a person may find a debate that makes jokes about rape offensive, and not want to join the site because they think that the site will contain more content like that. Likewise, potential members that want to debate serious topics such as political issues or religious matters will not want to join a site if they believe that the site merely talks about sex toys. They get this idea by seeing content on the front page and in the forums that reflect this. By eliminating this content completely we increase the chance of people becoming members and contributing content to the site.

The conclusion follows logically from the two premises.

Argument two: In appropriate discussions for the youngest members

Currently, there ate no real age barriers on DDO. A member of any age can go to any discussion, poll thread, or debate (Given that it is not already deleted). This means that very young members will be exposed to discussions on dildos, which is harmful to them. Young people who are exposed to discussions on dildos (Which leads to discussions on sex) are encouraged to actually have sex themselves. Studies (https://www.psychologytoday.com...) find that young people who are exposed to these kinds of things are more likely to engage in them, causing teen pregnancy and ultimately ruining lives. Teenagers that would have been valuable contributors to the site may give up DDO in order to raise their new child or engage in these activities listed before. DDO loses content and it affects people in their personal lives.

In conclusion, I've shown how valuable members will be detracted from the site and how it is inappropriate for young members to be exposed to this content. The bop is fulfilled.

Good luck, and thanks for reading!
Wylted

Pro

INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION

What attracts a lot of people to this site is the ability to have intelligent discussions on any topic. The last thing you want to do is to start having moderators or anyone else decide which of those topics is and is not appropriate. While it is good to censor people if their only purpose is vulgarity or offensiveness, it is bad to censor them based merely on whether a topic is offensive or not, and I see no reason to treat the topic of dildos differently than any other topic. We are debating dildos right now, so my opponent is actually being a bit hypocritical by challenging me to this topic.

ALL INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION IS GOOD

The site just runs better if we're allowed to freely discuss everything on our mind. The clashing of ideals is what attracts people to the site and keeps them around.

P1: Making a Topic Taboo Discourages Intelligent Discussions on Said Topic.

P2: Topics of a Taboo Nature Should Take Place Freely and Openly to show DDO is accepting of all Belief Systems and Intelligent discussions.

C1: Taboo Topics Such as Dildos, show that DDO is open to debate or having an intelligent discussion of any kind no matter how offensive or taboo a subject is.

P1 Is a priori true. I don't think that my opponent will disagree with the fact that making a topic taboo, censoring it or banning are all things that lead to less discussion of a topic.

P2 People by and far come to DDO, because they want to debate on different issues. Whether the clash of ideas comes from the polls, opinions, forums, debates or (barf) the religious section. If they arrive and see intelligent debates and discussions around a variety of potentially offensive stuff, such as dildos (see current debate), the holocaust being a hoax, fake moon landings and just liberalism in general than they know that they can feel safe bringing up a topic of discussion that is potentially offensive without the social stigma typically attached to a position or subject. They can feel safe intelligently discussing anything. We will attract more members by making it clear that we can intelligently discuss anything, without repercussions.

It is better to rid they site of things not conducive to intelligent discussion than to things that happen to be offensive. In my opinion, if you go a day logging into DDO without seeing something offensive than we have not done a good enough job making this place welcome and open to individuals of all different belief systems.

C1 The conclusion derives naturally from these statements. A person logging onto this site and seeing intelligent discussions about any and every topic under the sun, will obviously feel safe bringing up anything and knowing he'll get a good debate or discussion from it.

INTELLIGENT DISCUSSIONS IS WHAT MAKES DDO GREAT

My opponent has already spent a good deal of time explaining that losing potential members is bad, but if losing potential members is bad than gaining potential members is great.

P1: People are Attracted to DDO because it is an Outlet for Intelligent Discussion.

P2: Seeing all Topics and Subjects Treated With Respect and a Fruitful Debate or Discussion, let's people know they can discuss anything they want and they will get a great discussion, no matter what they want to talk about.

C1: Taboo content treated intelligently is a beacon that will attract members who know they can safely and intelligently discuss anything they want.

P1 The name of the site has the word debate in it. Every section on the site is geared to getting people to clash with their ideals. People come to the site, because they want to have an intelligent clashing of ideals. Quite frankly that doesn't happen unless one side takes the controversial or "taboo" position.

P2 People will know that they can discuss anything at all, if they see the topic of dildos being treated with respect and intelligently discussed or debated. We are doing just that thing as we speak. If people don't see DDO as a safe place to debate their wildest and most offensive ideals, they'll be discouraged from joining. Honestly, we need people on this site willing to take on taboo issues otherwise we'll have the same five topics debated repeatedly. It would get pretty boring, pretty fast.

C2 Obviously if people see that any sort of intelligent discussion and debate is welcome here no matter how offensive or taboo, they will stick around, because they can quite honestly get an intelligent discussion about anything.

SOME QUICK REBUTTALS

I'll really get into rebuttals next round and also be able to expand on my arguments some as well.

Discussing Dildos

In premise number 2 of my opponents opening argument he states that discussions of dildos turns away potential members. This is untrue, though. Some polls about dildos being taken down, have been taken down because they were not done in an intelligent way. The poll I am thinking of that was taken down was asking which dildo was better to use, one that was made with barbed wire or one that looked like a tiny penis. These types of polls, debates and threads are detrimental to DDO, because they turn away potential members, however the intended purpose of those polls were not discussion. The intended purpose was to offend.

If for example, a poll was created that asks if it is appropriate to use dildos as props for sexual education in middle school, than we can have a good discussion. You'd see feminists colliding with very traditional conservatives over this in the polls and it would be an interesting discussion that attracts members.

You see it isn't the discussion of dildos that turn potential members away, but just the abusiveness and derogatory, disrespectful intent of such polls.

No Age Barriers

My opponent is just flat out wrong about this, you can not join DDO unless you are 13 years old, and as many fathers as are in denial about this, girls are already thinking about sex at that age. They're going to be looking at blogs or articles on this that just show one opinion, but on DDO they can see the topic treated with a variety of opinions and come to a more balanced if not informed conclusion based on a larger amount of information.

CONCLUSION

All the fun starts in the next round, where I can go deeper into these arguments. I look forward to what my opponent brings to the table in terms of rebuttal . Good luck and thanks for reading.
Debate Round No. 2
Arcanas

Con

Thanks Pro!

The first thing I'd like to discuss are the rules, as my opponent violated them last round. Rule 9 states that my opponent and I must follow this format:

R1: Acceptance
R2: Arguments(No rebuttals)
R3: Arguments and rebuttals
R4: Conclusions (No new arguments can be made in this round)"

Even though the rules clearly state that rebuttals cannot be made until round three, my opponent began making rebuttals in round two; which is an obvious violation to the rules he agreed to abide by at the beginning of the debate. Voters should remember to award the conduct point to me due to this violation.


Intelligent Discussion

I concur on the statement that intelligent discussion is good. However, intelligent discussion is bad when it is combined with the negative atributes that the discussion of dilos bring forth. Discussions on dildos inevitably lead to inappropriate topics being made due to what dildos are used for. The intelligent discussion that can come from topics on dildos simply do not justify the harm that will come to both the website and the users.

"my opponent is actually being a bit hypocritical by challenging me to this topic"

Although I noticed this right after I made the debate and find it amusing, it's completely irrelevant to the actual arguments.


"P2: Topics of a Taboo Nature Should Take Place Freely and Openly to show DDO is accepting of all Belief Systems and Intelligent discussions"
As mentioned earlier, DDO has a Terms of Service that each member must agree to when opening an account on the site. When we agree to this, we also agree that many topics would violate this and thus be tabboo on the website. In addition, I've already mentioned how this harms children who log onto DDO and will ultimately hurt them to be exposed to this material. The Intelligent discussion it brings is not enough to justify the harm. This point also assumes that literally every topic should be discussed on DDO, which leads to tons of problems. People simply won't want to stay on a site that has threads spammed about inappropriate topics that disgust them. We lose members and harm those who stay.



"You see it isn't the discussion of dildos that turn potential members away, but just the abusiveness and derogatory, disrespectful intent of such polls"

Discussion of dildos inevitably leads to more of these that turn members away as well. Discussions of dildos can entail a plethora of topics.
No Age Barriers

"My opponent is just flat out wrong about this, you can not join DDO unless you are 13 years old"

What I meant by this is that there is nothing stopping a child from making the account anyway. Making a fake email and lying about ones age is something most children will be able to achieve easily. The point still stands though, even if a child is 13, it is still inappropriate for them to view and discuss this kind of content. I go more in depth below:

"girls are already thinking about sex at that age. They're going to be looking at blogs or articles on this that just show one opinion, but on DDO they can see the topic treated with a variety of opinions..."


Girls who look at these types of things at that age will be encouraged to engage in the activities. Discussions on dildo's can entail a plethora of material that is harmful for young children to view; including (But certainly not limited to): Where/how to get dildo's, encouragement to use them, encouragement to engage in sexual activities. and *many* topics that violate the Terms of Service for DDO. It essentially leads to more harm than good for DDO, and can ruin children's lives. In addition, it could lead to lawsuits being formed against DDO if it were to get out of hand.

Conclusion:

As mentioned before, Pro has violated the rules, so voters should be aware that the conduct point goes to my side of the debate. In addition to that, his actual rebuttals did not refute my arguments, and I was able to counter them. Pro's arguments have also been refuted, and I've shown how discussion of dildo's on debate.org leads to unintelligent discussion and essentially ruins both people's personal lives and DDO.

Thank you for taking the time to read my argument. Have a nice day!
Wylted

Pro

FRAMEWORK

Rules should be followed by the spirit, not the letter. The rules that rebuttals no be until round 2 is just to insure both sides forward a positive argument. The quick little rebuttals I did at the end of round 2 there would be appropriate, according to the spirit of the rules.

I've actually PMed BSH1 (writer of the rules) about those rules after my opponent made the criticism to me, and he seemed shocked that the criticism was brought up and he said he found my actions acceptable.

My opponents cheap attempt to win a lone conduct point should be seen as a gross violation of rule number 4. I should automatically get every conduct point in this debate.

I'm actually going to skip the rebuttal round, although I had real rebuttals planned. I don't want my opponent to have bad feelings when I win this for having an unfair advantage. I shouldn't have to apologize for giving him a chance to touch on counter rebuttals early, but there it is.
Debate Round No. 3
Arcanas

Con

I'd like to address my opponent's claims about the rules immediately:

"Rules should be followed by the spirit, not the letter"

False. This was not agreed upon by us beforehand, so you may not make this up now. Rule 10 shows that if you violate the rules, you lose points, regardless of whether you were following the "spirit" of them or not.

"I've actually PMed BSH1 (writer of the rules) about those rules after my opponent made the criticism to me, and he seemed shocked that the criticism was brought up and he said he found my actions acceptable"

My opponent straight up lied about this... I can provide screenshots if necessary but he has admitted to making up the claim that he talked to BSH1; and BSH1 could not find this conversation when looking through his PMs and profile comments. When I asked Wylted if he could bump the PM or point to where he made the comment to BSH1. This is not only breaking the fourth rule, but also lying in order to justify both a false accusation against me and a false defense for his own poor conduct. Quite frankly I'm shocked by this terrible cheating, and I encourage voters to consider taking away more than just conduct points because of his failed lying and cheating in order to get more points in the debate. I'm disappointed that my opponent would use such unfair debating techniques and literally make things up.

"My opponents cheap attempt to win a lone conduct point should be seen as a gross violation of rule number 4. I should automatically get every conduct point in this debate"

Again, this has been shown to be outright false... My opponent cheated and lied to try to get away with breaking the rules of the debate.

So far my opponent has violated rules 4, 9, and has cheated in an attempt evade 10. Obviously, this is a gross violation, and at the very least conduct should be taken away; if not the entire debate.

Thank you for reading this debate so far, have a nice day!
Wylted

Pro

FRAMEWORK

It's very important that the difference between obeying the spirit of the rules and the letter of the rules is made clear. To follow the spirit of a rule is to try and decipher the original intention of the rule or rules and follow them in that regard. http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

We can actually look with-in the rules themselves to see if BSH1, wanted the spirit of the rules obeyed or letter, when writing them. Rule number 5 specifically states that there are to be "no semantics". What's meant by no semantics, when set as a rule for a debate, is that a debater wants you to look at the spirit of what he is saying, and not necessarily the technical definition of a word. Rule number 5 clearly indicates that the creator of the rules, had intended people to follow the spirit of the rules as opposed to the letter of the rules, but there is more.

Rule number 6 states that there are to be "no Ks". A K is short for "Kritik", which is a type of argument that challenges the underlying assumptions of a debate. It's like somebody arguing for Nihilism when they are challenged to a debate on whether eating meat is wrong. This is another important rule, because the writer is saying he wants you to keep within the spirit of the debate as opposed to exploiting everything you could possibly argue. The mindset of the rule creator is clearly one that values the "spirit of the law", over the "letter of the law".

Any advantage gained from bringing up rebuttals early was erased by me refraining from arguing in the previous round. The rebuttals weren't even fully used or expanded upon, they were basically just a place marker to let my opponent know what to expect next round, so he can attempt to address them a little early if possible (pre empt them).

This is the last time I'm nice to this particular opponent, he complains when, I give him an advantage by briefly mentioning the arguments I intend on using later, and then he accuses me of being a liar about my PMs with BSH1 on this matter.

My opponents conduct this debate (cheaply attempting to get a free point, by attacking both my character and an overly strict interpretation of the rules), is not only enough to award me the conduct points, but the argument points as well.

I'll remind the voters of what was said in round 1, by my opponent. Rule number 10;

"10. Violation of any of these rules, results in a loss of conduct points, and due to the severity of the breach may merit an entire forfeit of the debate"

My opponent has violated the rules badly enough that the judges, are justified in awarding me the argument points, as stated in rule number 10. My opponent has specifically broken rule number 4, about maintaining a civil and decorous atmosphere. He not only violated the spirit of that rule, but he violated the letter of it as well. Here are a few quotes that demonstrate him calling a respected veteran on this site, a liar and implying I'm acting in a despicable way.

"My opponent straight up lied about this... I can provide screenshots if necessary but he has admitted to making up the claim that he talked to BSH1; and BSH1 could not find this conversation when looking through his PMs and profile comments. When I asked Wylted if he could bump the PM or point to where he made the comment to BSH1. This is not only breaking the fourth rule, but also lying in order to justify both a false accusation against me and a false defense for his own poor conduct. Quite frankly I'm shocked by this terrible cheating"

My opponent attacking me as a liar and cheater gets me this win. If he doesn't believe me about the PMs I've had with a good friend of mine, he can just point out, that I'm mistaken or that I have no evidence to support my position. He has threatened to photoshop messages (in a PM to me) that will make it look as though, I've admitted to some sort of lying. I remind my opponent, that not only does my reputation for honesty speak for it's self, but that judges are not allowed to let their vote be influenced by anything outside of the debate (even photo shopped PMs). Based on what I've already said, conduct and argument points should automatically go to me, based on my opponents vicious and uncalled for attacks.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MissLuLu 2 years ago
MissLuLu
I am unable to vote, but if I could, I wouldn't.

What began as a civilized, /important/ debate over debates about dildos has turned in a childish "he said / he said" argument. Personally I think neither of you deserve the points, regardless of whoever started it in the first place. Neither of you decided to be the better person and to come above it to continue the title debate, to just concede to the other on the /single/ point.

For shame, the both of you.
Posted by RainbowDash52 2 years ago
RainbowDash52
RFD:

Conduct:
Accepting Pro's interpretation of the intention of rule 9, in which the purpose of round 2 is to "insure both sides forward a positive argument" then the purpose of round 3 would be to make sure both sides made arguments and rebuttals, which Pro violated by passing round 3. So Pro broke rule 9 regardless of whose interpretation of the rules were used. But Con broke rule 4 when accusing Pro of cheating without providing evidence to support it. Since both sides broke a rule, conduct is tied. As a note, I judge conduct over how I perceive conduct, and not how well conduct points are argued over, since arguments should mainly be focused on the resolution.

Arguments:
Although the debate got sidetracked into an argument over who broke conduct, I see no reason to avoid judging on who better argued over the resolution. For whether discussing dildos on DDO discourages or encourages new members, Pro argued better by giving an example of good a topic for dildo discussions. When Con rebuttaled by arguing that certain dildo discussions could be harmful to 13 year old girls, but didn't touch Pro's argument that it is not the entire topic of dildos which is the problem. And finally, Con's lawsuits argument were week as no examples of similar lawsuits were given and no arguments that this kind of lawsuit has a significant chance of occuring if these dildo discussions on DDO continue.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Yes it is. I think ebmven if they ignore all that, my arguments are strong enough to stand on their own
Posted by Arcanas 2 years ago
Arcanas
Whelp, it's time to see if judges recognize the trolling/lying or not lol.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Also according to the TOS, I can't show screen shots of PMs. It could get me banned
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
That is outside of the debate, I will not post anything that could influence the judges
Posted by Arcanas 2 years ago
Arcanas
@Wylted

Screenshot of PM's threatening to photoshop images?
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Jesus Christ, I had weighed impacts and all, but failed to get them out in time. I think once impacts are weighed I still won, though I would've liked to walk judges through them.
Posted by Futurepresident2048 2 years ago
Futurepresident2048
Dildos need to be given rights on DDO!
Posted by triangle.128k 2 years ago
triangle.128k
Dildos are bad, end of story.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RainbowDash52 2 years ago
RainbowDash52
ArcanasWyltedTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments