The Instigator
blazeratman
Pro (for)
Winning
23 Points
The Contender
redinferno
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

It is better to die trying to be free than to live in captivity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
blazeratman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/1/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,918 times Debate No: 11939
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (4)

 

blazeratman

Pro

I believe that it is far better to die fighting to be free than to live enslaved. First to clarify some definitions, free - enjoying personal rights or liberty, as a person who is not enslaved (1). captivity - the state or period of being held, imprisoned, enslaved, or confined. (2) I will allow my opponent to state his or her argument first.

(1) http://dictionary.reference.com...
(2) http://dictionary.reference.com...
redinferno

Con

I will provide more arguments in the second round depending on how my opponent responds.

If you are dead you will enjoy nothing. If you live, even in captivity you will be able to enjoy a little of your life. Even if there is very little for you to enjoy in your life, it may change in the future. You have no future if you are dead.
Debate Round No. 1
blazeratman

Pro

I would first like to thank my opponent for accepting my offer to debate.

My opponent states "if you are dead you will enjoy nothing." First of all my opponent, mathematically, sets the enjoyment in death at 0 or nothing. Therefore, my opponent must be assuming there is no afterlife. Though this is an entirely different channel to this debate, I will agree with my opponents statement that "if you are dead you will enjoy nothing."Living on the other hand can be either a positive or negative thing. This can be proven by suicide. If living could only be considered either zero or positive, and dying could only be considered zero, there would be no reason to taking your own life. In this case suicide would be worse than whatever awful life you are living. However, suicide does occur. Therefore, life can be a negative entity. If life is negative, as it would be in this "enslaved (1)" state. It is better to try to improve your life into enjoyment and die trying because even death, at "nothing", would be better than the negatively valued life lived in captivity.

My opponent also stated, "if you live, even in captivity you will be able to enjoy a little of your life." This was proven fictional in my previous argument. If it was only possible to enjoy life and not hate it, suicide would not exist.

My opponent then talks about the future. He is correct to say that, "it (your life) may change in the future" This is only possible if one thing occurs, you must attempt to free yourself, and in attempting to free yourself, you may die, but that is better than staying in captivity and being miserable.

Thank you
redinferno

Con

My opponent mentions the afterlife in his argument. First of all you will get to the afterlife regardless of whether or not you die trying to be free becausee you will die anyway and it will not necessarily be good.

My opponent assumes that life in captivity will be negative. This may not be the case. A slave may or may not have a good life without his freedom. Though freedom would be better captivity would necessarily be so bad that even death would be better.

My opponent says that the future would only be better if you attempt to free yourself. That would probably not be the case. A person held in prison, by state or terrorist, could be released after some time. A slave could be released, or somehow gain freedom later in his lifetime. Attempting to free yourself would be better if the odds were of success were good but my opponent argues that death in attempt to free oneself is better than remaining in captivity.
Debate Round No. 2
blazeratman

Pro

1. The Afterlife
I will agree with my opponent that you will get to the afterlife regardless of when you die.

2. Life in captivity may not be negative
This is an absurd comment by my opponent. The 100,000 slaves who were successful in fleeing from the Southern States from 1810-1850 wouldn't agree with this statement (1). And many more died trying. Those that didn't try to escape did it because they feared caught. Let me say that again to clarify it: They feared getting caught. There was a lot of fear going around. Fear of the slave owner, fear of the whip. Most of the slave owners in that time period who caught an escaped slave would not kill him or her, a dead body cannot work. They would impose torturous punishments to make the slave understand that he or she is not to attempt to escape again, but guess what? Some tried again! The slaves of the 1800s are a great example of how life in captivity is always negative.

Another example of why being in captivity is always negative are the founding fathers of the United States of America. I assume my opponent will agree that being free is the opposite of being in captivity. If this is not a case I beseech him to correct me. The founding fathers felt confined (see Round 1 (1) this is part of definition of captivity) Therefore they decided to attempt to free themselves through the revolutionary war. They knew full well that when they signed the Declaration of Independence, if the colonies lost the war, they would be hung for high treason to the crown. However, they decided that subverting to British rule without a say in government was too confining and therefore risked their lives to free their country. Many colonists did die, but they did it knowing they were dying because they were trying to free their country from Britain, and they believed death would be better than living under British rule.

(3) Future may not be better if you attempt to free yourself.

Again I must disagree with my opponent. The examples above illustrate that as well as a book with substantially recognized literary merit called Brave New World. In this book, the character John kills himself because he cannot escape the force of the totalitarian society. This seems to be the trend in any book about a totalitarian government and history backs this up as well. As the Nazis rose to power in the 1920s and seized control of the government in 1933 many artists, writers, and musicians fled the country (2).

By no means am I advocating prison breaks, but what I am saying is, if a person has been left to die in a concentration camp type setting as was seen in Nazi Germany, the only logical choice for them should be to attempt escape, whether that results in death or freedom, it will be better than rotting away.

Vote Pro!
Thank You

(1) http://www.pbs.org...
(2) http://www.localhistories.org...
redinferno

Con

I will make my conclusion brief:

My opponent states examples of times where slaves did whatever they could to get away from slavery. Not all cases are like this. During the roman era which lasted over 1100 years it was considered good to treat a slave well[1] although this was not always the case and a slave could be freed in ways other than through escaping. Some owners freed their slaves outright while others let them but their freedom.[2] There were certain organization in Rome that helped slave by their freedom by lending him money. If he failed to return this money then he was sold back into slavery. This also negates my opponents other point that attempting to escape is the only way to gain freedom and regardless his assertion is that it is better to die an an attempt than to continue to live in captivity.

Life in prison today is also not so bad that death would be preferable to living in prison.

Most people would be freed from prison after some period of time. People held as hostages by rebel/terrorist groups may also be freed some time. In any case waiting would always be better than dying in an attempt to escape

[1]http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
[2]http://www.pbs.org...
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by lelanatty 6 years ago
lelanatty
And as for the things that could be said, keep an eye on this one: http://www.debate.org...
Posted by lelanatty 6 years ago
lelanatty
Give me liberty or give me death!
Posted by redinferno 6 years ago
redinferno
sorry about triple comment
Posted by redinferno 6 years ago
redinferno
Also vote on this debate. Pro forfeited.
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by redinferno 6 years ago
redinferno
Also vote on this debate. Pro forfeited.
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by redinferno 6 years ago
redinferno
Also vote on this debate. Pro forfeited.
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Kinesis 6 years ago
Kinesis
*of*
Posted by Kinesis 6 years ago
Kinesis
A rather disappointing treatment if this topic...
Posted by Ore_Ele 6 years ago
Ore_Ele
easy win for con.
Posted by frenchmoosetwo 6 years ago
frenchmoosetwo
oh the things that could be said
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by peaches216love 6 years ago
peaches216love
blazeratmanredinfernoTied
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Vote Placed by JackSpades64 6 years ago
JackSpades64
blazeratmanredinfernoTied
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Vote Placed by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
blazeratmanredinfernoTied
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Vote Placed by lelanatty 6 years ago
lelanatty
blazeratmanredinfernoTied
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