The Instigator
Wylted
Pro (for)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
toughenough
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

It is generally immoral for black women to have children.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Wylted
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/25/2014 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,283 times Debate No: 57131
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (6)

 

Wylted

Pro

I don't think it's moral for blacks to have children (generally). I doubt anybody disagrees, but if somebody does, let's debate.
toughenough

Con

I disagree with this resolution.
Debate Round No. 1
Wylted

Pro

My arguments are heavily influenced by Zarroette. Also if I can prove it's generally immoral for women in general to have children, I have by default proven it's generally immoral for black women to have children.

C1) Life sucks- "Sentient life involves more discomfort than comfort." http://www.debate.org...

Discomfort for these purposes is defined as something that occurs as a feeling of deprivation, pain or a lack of something. Discomfort is obviously bad or our psychologies wouldn't makes us averse to it. Life is a negative sum game. The best we can hope to achieve is a state of equilibrium. Any state of comfort is preceded by a state of discomfort. If you enjoyed your meal it's because you were hungry and thus uncomfortable. If a massage makes you feel good, it's because your muscles were tense and in a state of discomfort. It's clearly immoral to have children when you are going to subject them to a negative sum game that is filled with discomfort and ultimately leads to death.

C2) Environmental Impacts- one of the best things you can do for the environment is to not have children. Having children increases your carbon footprint by up to 8 times your current rate once everything is taken into account. http://www.sciencedirect.com...

It's immoral to have a kid knowing it will greatly harm the environment.

Conclusion- It's wrong for black women (or any for that matter) to have kids, knowing they'll face more discomfort than comfort, destroy the environment and inevitably die.
toughenough

Con

You never mentioned how you are quantifying the pain or deprivation or why this outweighs the pleasure and provisions one experiences and receives respectively. On top of this, you state that any state of comfort is preceded by a state of discomfort but every state of discomfort is preceded by comfort so this is truly irrelevant. You state that you enjoy your meal because you are hungry but hunger only hurts because you have felt the pleasure of being full. So even thought the bad makes the good feel good, the good is what ends up making the bad feel bad. It's a zero sum, not a negative one, because subjective experiences are unquantifiable by objective means.[http://tinyurl.com...]

The death argument is irrelevant. The reason we dominated the Earth is thanks to the information presented by people who are now long gone.[http://tinyurl.com...] All babies are potential information givers.

Even if it's a negative sum, Utilitarianism dictates the suffering of one to alleviate that of many is morally good.[http://tinyurl.com...]

Nations where global warming is hitting hardest and who have the largest carbon footprint are not black-dominated nations. [http://tinyurl.com...] Therefore, it follows that if the black-dominated nations are contributing least to environmental damage, the children being born there are a positive force t global warming and should try to outnumber the other races on Earth in order to save the environment from their pollution. The greater the army of environmentally friendly Africans there are to fight off the other nations, the more beneficial it is

Additionally, many of porn's biggest d*cks and a*ses are black [http://tinyurl.com...]. Porn helps people not have to experience pleasure without reproducing so children of all races are as undesirable as Pro suggests, having black ones is relatively moral compared to other races.

In conclusion, Pro's contentions actually support blacks having babies being relatively moral.
Debate Round No. 2
Wylted

Pro

C1) Life Sucks- My opponent seems to concede that when it comes to comfort vs discomfort life is at least a zero sum game. I'd say at best life is a zero sum game. Often times people experience more discomfort than comfort in life. There are people who suffer with terminal illness their whole life as well as many other lives end with a negative sum not a zero sum. Also discomfort almost alway precedes comfort. You're tired (uncomfortable), so you sit down (comfort). You're hungry (discomfort) so you eat and become full (comfort). You see discomfort almost always proceeds comfort so most likely you'll die at a negative sum.

My opponent argues that the death argument is irrelevant, but it's not. Nobody wants to die, and by a black mother choosing to have a kid she ultimately sets her child up to play a most likely negative sum game and end it by dying. Dying is certainly a relevant argument, because it's most assuredly a negative thing. There may be benefits to new blood continually entering the human race, but that doesn't make dying a thing that people want to partake in.

C2) Environmental impacts- my opponent agrees that having children does have a negative impact on the environment. He argues that predominately black countries have less of a carbon footprint than white countries. However the fact is they still have a carbon footprint and the footprint could be eliminated by not having the kid to start with. It may be more important for whites to stop reproducing but that doesn't eliminate the moral and ethical obligation of black folks.

Conclusion- I'm going to ignore my opponent's vulgar argument that really has no place on this website.
toughenough

Con

toughenough forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
toughenough

Con

toughenough forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Wylted

Pro

Vote pro. I think my opponent has been banned, but even if he comes back. He should just avoid posting anything other than a concession in the last round. Any new arguments would be unfair at this point.
toughenough

Con

[Content removed by moderator]
Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
No thanks. I'm about to start really narrowing down what I argue for and doing what I can to make sure every debate is high quality. For a while, I felt like there was some bias in my favor that helped me win close debates. Now I almost feel as if there is a slight bias against me.

Nothing but top quality stuff for a while.
Posted by bossyburrito 2 years ago
bossyburrito
If you want to redo this debate with someone who (hopefully) won't forfeit, I'd argue against this, if you want!
Posted by schachdame 2 years ago
schachdame
Not sure what to make of this, but I'm enjoying it a bit too much. That's something immoral for sure.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
There is just no escaping you!
Posted by Envisage 2 years ago
Envisage
Hah. It's okay, I can just make a Pro-sniping account :-p.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
No, but you may be soon. I like variety.
Posted by Envisage 2 years ago
Envisage
Lol, am I seriously blocked?
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
My argument will be up in a few hours. I promise it's in no way racist. You'll enjoy this debate if you stay tuned.
Posted by Jjjohn 2 years ago
Jjjohn
"I can't be racist I have a colored TV."

cute. my bad, you be trollin'.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I'm sorry. How is it racist? The resolution doesn't imply any sort of inferiority of the black race. Nor does the resolution say anything negative about black folks.

Also, just to be clear. I can't be racist I have a colored TV.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Ajab 2 years ago
Ajab
WyltedtoughenoughTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by WillRiley 2 years ago
WillRiley
WyltedtoughenoughTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture, nice arguments.
Vote Placed by schachdame 2 years ago
schachdame
WyltedtoughenoughTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: FF and I take extra spelling points from Con for his last round poorly phrased insult.
Vote Placed by YamaVonKarma 2 years ago
YamaVonKarma
WyltedtoughenoughTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: ff and using racial slurs.
Vote Placed by XLAV 2 years ago
XLAV
WyltedtoughenoughTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gave better arguments and Con forfeited. Everything else is a tie except conduct. Conduct goes to pro for not forfeiting.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
WyltedtoughenoughTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: ff