The Instigator
TUF
Pro (for)
The Contender
Unstobbaple
Con (against)

It is harmful to a community like DDO to assume everyone is a liar

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Challenge Expired or Declined
Unstobbaple either declined this challenge, or never responded to it. If you are TUF, login to see your options.
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 1/1/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Challenge Declined
Viewed: 99 times Debate No: 106290
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

TUF

Pro

I will start this debate by giving context to what it is about. In a google hangout there was a prolonged discussion between Max, Unstoppable, and myself based around the events in this thread: http://www.debate.org...

The discussion went in circles, and continued to come back to Unstoppable arguing that his comments in this thread were not harmful because SupaDudz didn't react to his negative comments. My argument will be that this philosophy or mindset is harmful, or more detrimental to Debate.org as a community than it is helpful.

I want to preface it by saying this isn't personal in the slightest, I view Unstoppable as a friend. While I view him as being wrong, and I think his outlook on the world seems a bit sad, I don't think he is a bad person. I would like to debate this logically and gain a perspective from the community on this issue.

Thanks in advance for accepting this debate, if you want changes to the resolution, please PM me or talk to me in the hangouts.
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Debate Round No. 1
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Unstobbaple 1 month ago
Unstobbaple
I'm never going to agree to a resolution where I'm defending assuming some motivation behind everyone's actions all the time and that misrepresents what I've said. I've said I got pissed and was a dick but explained where I was coming from. My impression of him was that he was attention seeking in an extreme way so seeing him use family health issues to stoke that (as I saw it at the time) was in really bad taste.

No, everybody lies but I think people tell the truth most of the time if we discount 'white lies.' I define lying quite differently than normal and in a way that makes it always immoral 'withholding the truth from someone who deserves to know it.' Which allows me to troll, use white lies and lies that avoid disclosing a truth that an inappropriate question would disclose.

That your dad is injured is a pretty mundane claim that doesn't really require a lot of proof if you know someone irl generally. Remember most of us might question that 'your grandma died' if you were late on a school project for instance. If you got the wrong impression of them that they were a young and attention seeking in an extreme way you may both doubt their claim and assume they are making the claim with bad motives.

That Annie has been around for a long time and pretty chill means she has a good reputation. If I notice a 14k post count I'm more hesitant to jump to conclusions about someone's character.
Posted by TUF 1 month ago
TUF
"Of course everyone lies some times often just to avoid hurting feelings or to avoid being too open and I think often lies like these are justified."

Were aren't talking about those kind of lies, we are talking about lies for attention. Should we change the topic to "It is harmful to a community like DDO to assume everyone is a lying attention whore"?

"People tell the truth more often in general so they're also Truth teller?"

Are you denying the claim you earlier made that most people lie?

"This isn't to say that you're assuming they are lying but that you're waiting for them to provide some evidence."

So what, he needed to post pics of his dad's injured body in order for you to be a civilized human? Also wouldn't it have made more sense just to ask him for evidence rather than assume he was lying under this logic? Don't get me wrong I think even doubting him enough to ask him is messed up, but the point remains.

"My contention was that you were advocating assuming truth but you've flipped it. Both are harmful."

Context will be helpful in this debate, and we will be references scenarios strictly like this. I am not trying to cheat you with a semantics debate, I have more class than that lol

Also yes, the post coveny responded to was very un-sympathetic and looked to start drama unnecessarily. What you did was pretty much on the same level, I don't think Esocial being a lot less new makes a difference.

Again I am open to suggestions on changes to the resolution, we are both clear what are positions are on this dis-agreement.
Posted by Unstobbaple 1 month ago
Unstobbaple
http://www.debate.org...

This post struck me as more honest and appropriate given her history. I hope someone scolds Cov for post two at least as hard as I was.
Posted by Unstobbaple 1 month ago
Unstobbaple
Of course everyone lies some times often just to avoid hurting feelings or to avoid being too open and I think often lies like these are justified. People tell the truth more often in general so they're also Truth teller?. I think you're mistaking my position in the resolution. IN general when someone makes a claim they carry the BoP. This isn't to say that you're assuming they are lying but that you're waiting for them to provide some evidence. Mundane claims don't require a large level of evidence but extreme claims require a lot.

It helps quite a bit to be skeptical but counterproductive to assume that anyone is lying or telling the truth in any situation. Less so with mundane claims. You wait to hear the evidence. My contention was that you were advocating assuming truth but you've flipped it. Both are harmful.
Posted by TUF 1 month ago
TUF
The resolution clearly isn't positing that one should assume everyone is telling the truth in every context. It is refusing the logic you made that everyone is automatically a liar and proving why that mindset is harmful to ddo. You did actually say that multiple times. Are you retracting that statement now? If so what would you like to change your position to?
Posted by Unstobbaple 1 month ago
Unstobbaple
The resolution is objectively false just like it is to assume that everyone is a truth teller.
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