The Instigator
NothingSpecial99
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
quikskopedscrub
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

It is plausible that Rey defeated Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
NothingSpecial99
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2016 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 496 times Debate No: 85133
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (4)

 

NothingSpecial99

Pro

Disclaimer: Spoilers will be discussed. (Seriously, the movie has been out for nearly a month. If you are so worried about being spoiled, you should have seen it by now)

Star Wars: The Force Awakens was a good movie, of course not without some flaws. However, there are multiple people complaining about the fact that Rey defeated Kylo Ren on the Starkiller planet because of the fact that it "appears" that she has not had any Jedi training. However, in this debate I will prove that the senario was plausible from what we do know about the Star Wars Universe.

For this debate, only Episodes I-VII can be discussed not including any Star Wars cartoons or expanded lore.

Definitons:

plausible - seemingly worthy of approvalor acceptance; credible; believable:
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Arguments
Round 3: Pro refutes Con's arguments in Round 2 and vice versa
quikskopedscrub

Con

Alright so first of all Kylo Ren could've escaped the Starkiller planet. It didn't show that he died, he was just lying on the snow injured and Rey watching him on the other side of the cliff. Plus, there will be more Star Wars to come so Kylo Ren would probably add more to the story. Its just like how Anakin was burning in lava, injured, and lying down. Then Emperor Palpatine came along to rescue him. The same thing probably happened to Kylo Ren because he only appeared in one episode and died in the same episode. Im pretty sure he would still be alive, who else could be the villain?
Debate Round No. 1
NothingSpecial99

Pro

It appears that my opponent misread the resolution. Since I used the word "defeat" in the resolution, it appears Con has taken this as Rey kills Kylo Ren which isn't the topic of this debate. the definition for defeat as follows:

"to overcome in a contest, election, battle, etc.; prevail over; vanquish"
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Defeat doesn't necessarily mean to kill.

The topic of this debate is whether it is plausible that Rey beats Kylo Ren during their fight on Starkiller base as is a common complaint about the movie.

Now onto my arguments:

1. Kylo Ren was wounded beforehand

Before Rey and Kylo Ren's lightsaber duel, Chewbacca shot Kylo Ren with a weapon that would normally kill your average stormtrooper right after he kills Han Solo. On top of that while Finn was fighting him also managed to inflict injuries on Kylo Ren (I have more of a problem with this happening as Finn previously had his butt kicked in a lightssaber duel with a stormtrooper). With the wounds the Kylo has, they will greatly inhibit his combat abilities as any wounded person would be.

2. It was never Kylo's intention to kill Rey

After Rey successfully used the force against Kylo while captured, Kylo approached Supreme Leader Snoke for help. Snoke then commanded him to bring Rey back to him. Even though Rey escapes, Snoke haven't given any additional orders to Kylo so it can be inferred that he was still trying to take Rey alive. When Rey was backed against the cliff, Kylo could have easily kicked her off and ended the fight there however seizes such opportunity to try to bring Rey to the dark side which backs up my point. Trying to capture an armed enemy alive while they try to kill you would place serious limitations as to how you can use your combat skills.

3. Rey has experience in melee combat

As seen in the scene where a couple of muggers tried to steal BB-8, she is clearly capable of defending herself with a melee weapon. Although combat with a staff would be different with a lightsaber, Rey isn't new to these kind of fights.

4. Kylo's training in the dark side

In the scene where he talks to the melted Darth Vader helmet, it is clear that there is still conflict within him as he struggles to fully grasp the dark side. Inner conflict doesn't bode well for your combat effectiveness with the lightsaber.

On top of that, it is also clear that Kylo isn't fully trained in the dark side. If this was a fight between Rey and Darth Maul or Darth Vader, this fight would have ended quickly with Rey dead. However, in conversation with Snoke, Kylo was commanded to come to him and complete his training in the dark side. So Kylo himself isn't fully trained with his lightsaber and the dark side of the force.

5. It is plausible that Rey had some training in the force

If you look at the prequel movies, Jedi training starts at a very young age with some kids appearing to be as young as kindergarteners. It is possible that Rey was a part of the new generation of Jedi training under Luke and that she survived the slaughter and placed on Jakku for her protection. During the scene when she cried out as the ship left Jakku, she looked around 10-12 years old. She could possibly have had up to 7 years in Jedi training. How else was she able to perform the Jedi mind trick on the stormtrooper? During the duel when she was pushed against the cliff, Kylo told her that she needed a teacher and that he could show her the true ways of the force. After he mentioned the force, it seemed that Rey has an epiphany and seemed to tap into the force and the tide of the battle turned in her favor. If Rey had previous Jedi training, her odds are much better.

Conclusion: With my reasons outlined, it is plausible given the circumstances of the fight for Rey to win the lightsaber fight.
quikskopedscrub

Con

quikskopedscrub forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
quikskopedscrub

Con

quikskopedscrub forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
Such a good debate wasted...
Posted by NothingSpecial99 1 year ago
NothingSpecial99
I'm well aware that the cartoons are canon, however I only included the episodes to simplify things as the seven episodes are more common knowledge
Posted by Nidhogg28 1 year ago
Nidhogg28
Uhh, the Clone Wars and Rebels are canon....
Posted by NothingSpecial99 1 year ago
NothingSpecial99
For some reason, I get the feeling that a lot of explaination was purposely left out for the sequels
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
I agree. This is plausible. I just wished they could have given more proof to the Force training Rey might have had.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
NothingSpecial99quikskopedscrubTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by famousdebater 1 year ago
famousdebater
NothingSpecial99quikskopedscrubTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Full forfeit and no arguments or rebuttals by con.
Vote Placed by DankMan 1 year ago
DankMan
NothingSpecial99quikskopedscrubTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: con provided no evidence and completely misunderstood the debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
NothingSpecial99quikskopedscrubTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.